Could seem like a useful idea for pg clutter, the res from selling it could probably do you more good though. Marines are fast enough they should be able to cover the adjacent rooms with just running if the pg is in a tech point room.
so, reason is not a losing resources, losing control points when i need to push some hive is very difficult.
And for a good 2 more things:
- Ability to reconfigure the line teleports, but shutting down will work better off than
- Entrance to one side of the teleport sends clockwise in the other direction - counterclockwise
I was talking to SamusDroid few days ago about his idea to power surge button above a PG (GUI improvement) and i added that that PG should have priority on all others (marines get to that PG first). So extanding that idea i gaved another proposal to make another button above PG to give it a priority over other PGs on the map for lets say 5 sec. It would be great for fast rush...
Bit of a faff and open to trolling or accidental turn offs? Be interesting and its a good idea but I don't think its that big an issue. Sorry x
There are countless other ways for a commander to troll and the solution was always to eject, this applies all the same and should be treated as such.
How many keypoint positions have you lost due to having to phase through multiple positions?
You could argue well there shouldn't be THAT many phase gates in the first place but for example on ns2_veil, you have a PG in Marine Start, Nanogrid, Pipeline but you need another PG in the Dome or System, do you really want to sacrifice that PG in pipeline thats vulnerable to a well timed gorge rush? (seen this happen a 100 times).
EDIT* This shouldn't be too hard to implement if it gets a go ahead right? Just put the phase gate in a de-powered state like when the power node gets destroyed but can easily be switched on and off from the commander UI, heck you could even make it costs teamres if you really want to balance or add a cooldown timer, so many ways to get around the trolling aspect @MuckyMcFly
If marines hold nano with pg, and someone makes a gate in the neck, and i beaconrush everyone i temporarly "sell" nano drop cuple meds/ammo and have to navigate back to nanos gate in time to cancel the "sell" so we dont lose that location, with 4 gates its even more management and timing involved.
This is how it could look like:
@MuckyMcFlyhere on/off is better since u can have it on stand-by until they actually attack nano, i rather accidentally turn it off then accidentally sell it if not canceling the sell in the right time but if its on opposite side of recycle it minimize that risk.
Maybe we could make a choice for players where thay wish to go? Something like entering PG will bring up a MAP with buttons on top of PGs that would select destination?
Maybe we could make a choice for players where thay wish to go? Something like entering PG will bring up a MAP with buttons on top of PGs that would select destination?
You could even have the PG's numbered and bind the pg locations to your numkeys 1 - 9 to avoid any clunkiness/slowdown/delay you would get if you need to use a mouse to highlight the PG
EDIT* Could you make the PG's numbered in your image just to see what it looks like @CarNagE1
Maybe we could make a choice for players where thay wish to go? Something like entering PG will bring up a MAP with buttons on top of PGs that would select destination?
sorry guy, but it is too strongly for junior players.
i cant give it THE FUCKING WAYPOINT, and you promote adding to game COMMANDER CRY::
SHUT DOWN YOUR PGS, DUDES, LETS GO TO SYSTEM WAYPOINTING!!!! SHUT DOWN!!! NOW!!! RUN, DUMMIES!
commander disabling of the gates will helped to moving stupid rines to position!
Maybe we could make a choice for players where thay wish to go? Something like entering PG will bring up a MAP with buttons on top of PGs that would select destination?
sorry guy, but it is too strongly for junior players.
i cant give it THE FUCKING WAYPOINT, and you promote adding to game COMMANDER CRY::
SHUT DOWN YOUR PGS, DUDES, LETS GO TO SYSTEM WAYPOINTING!!!! SHUT DOWN!!! NOW!!! RUN, DUMMIES!
commander disabling of the gates will helped to moving stupid rines to position!
You could argue well there shouldn't be THAT many phase gates in the first place but for example on ns2_veil, you have a PG in Marine Start, Nanogrid, Pipeline but you need another PG in the Dome or System, do you really want to sacrifice that PG in pipeline thats vulnerable to a well timed gorge rush? (seen this happen a 100 times).
That's exactly it though: Too many gates. Having many many phase gates is not a good idea. On Veil? PG in Marine Start, Nano, Pipe. Get a PG in Dome ASAP and recycle Pipe. Or you can change your PG from being in double to being in System. No reason the gate needs to be in Nano, just close by.
Let's say you have 3 gates. #1 is in base, #2 is in Nano, #3 is in Dome. You want to do a rush. You can start a recycle on #2 in Nano so that marines phasing will go straight to dome. Just cancel the recycle before it's actually finished so you keep the gate.
I think the 'off' button would be harder / more confusing for new players to handle and you'd end up wasting a lot of res. Commanders would turn off a PG instead of recycling it, then if an alien stumbles across it, they damage it (less res back for recycle) or destroy it (res wasted). And then, what's the downside to building a PG in every single room and just turning on the ones you need? I could micro so that I could send marines to each room in the map I wanted. We'd rarely lose an RT if I could micro well enough. It's not uncommon that commanders in pubs can't handle dropping structures and medding the marines, adding more for them (especially new commanders) to have to juggle does not sound like a great idea.
Generally I won't ever put up more than 3 gates. 1 in each lane. If you have 4-5 gates, they're probably unnecessary. Instead of 'turning off' the PGs, just recycle the ones you don't want/need. Honestly, it's not something that I'd suggest the programmers spend time on. Don't fix what's not broken.
If you guys really think it's a good idea, then why doesn't someone turn it into a mod and try it out on a server? If it goes well and people really like it, perhaps it will be looked into then.
You could argue well there shouldn't be THAT many phase gates in the first place but for example on ns2_veil, you have a PG in Marine Start, Nanogrid, Pipeline but you need another PG in the Dome or System, do you really want to sacrifice that PG in pipeline thats vulnerable to a well timed gorge rush? (seen this happen a 100 times).
That's exactly it though: Too many gates. Having many many phase gates is not a good idea. On Veil? PG in Marine Start, Nano, Pipe. Get a PG in Dome ASAP and recycle Pipe. Or you can change your PG from being in double to being in System. No reason the gate needs to be in Nano, just close by.
Let's say you have 3 gates. #1 is in base, #2 is in Nano, #3 is in Dome. You want to do a rush. You can start a recycle on #2 in Nano so that marines phasing will go straight to dome. Just cancel the recycle before it's actually finished so you keep the gate.
I think the 'off' button would be harder / more confusing for new players to handle and you'd end up wasting a lot of res. Commanders would turn off a PG instead of recycling it, then if an alien stumbles across it, they damage it (less res back for recycle) or destroy it (res wasted). And then, what's the downside to building a PG in every single room and just turning on the ones you need? I could micro so that I could send marines to each room in the map I wanted. We'd rarely lose an RT if I could micro well enough. It's not uncommon that commanders in pubs can't handle dropping structures and medding the marines, adding more for them (especially new commanders) to have to juggle does not sound like a great idea.
Generally I won't ever put up more than 3 gates. 1 in each lane. If you have 4-5 gates, they're probably unnecessary. Instead of 'turning off' the PGs, just recycle the ones you don't want/need. Honestly, it's not something that I'd suggest the programmers spend time on. Don't fix what's not broken.
If you guys really think it's a good idea, then why doesn't someone turn it into a mod and try it out on a server? If it goes well and people really like it, perhaps it will be looked into then.
@Decoy It depends on what you deem unnecessary, having a phase gate at a vital techpoint that needs to be recycled for a forward push sounds counter productive to be honest.
Say if you lose momentum in your forward push, you've recycled pipeline PG for the sake of funnelling marines to your dome PG, which you then lose in an alien counterattack, you've lost both positions which severely hampers a marine's ability to come back into the game.
This could possibly attribute to stalemate pushes which we see often in pub servers and sometimes comp as the commander and his marines don't necessarily want to risk losing their forward position knowing that their techpoint phase is lost completely.
This issue is negated by powering down your techpoint PG for the meantime, if your forward position is lost, its not as punishing as you can simply power up your techpoint PG again.
This has happened in countless games and in my eyes a gameplay mechanic that needs to be looked into more closely.
Clicking on a phasegate and de-powering it is no less counter intuitive than navigating the UI to select power surge to be honest if anything its easier as you don't need to go through the UI, just select the PG.
I believe this will change strategies dynamically, introduce new tactics and fun gameplay if pulled off correctly.
Love the active topics and this one has been discussed a few times. Pretty sure turning them on/off was overall decided by uwe and playtesters to be not the best solution, also there had been some though over prioritizing a phase gate. I'm always game to hear thoughts and suggestions again, but not sure this one would be ever be right. I mean there is something to be said about smart and tactical placement of the gates. if you can cover/defend them you probably shouldnt be placing them, no?
Instead of being able to turn on/off a Phase Gate... why not be able to power down a room?
Suddenly, it becomes a very real, serious decision in order to remove a PG from the "rotation".
However, I think the cooldown and the resource cost is a very good balance.
Siege mod has 3 "frequency" for phase gates. By default all phase gates (PGs) start on Frequency 1 and the commander can change phase gates to be on different frequency. So only PGs on the same Frequency are connected. This works without a problem and I really like the concept which already has a working version. I think this frequency concept should be incorporated into NS2 game.
However a slight change I would request compared to siege, is that changing the frequency should cost Team Res as it's currently free to switch frequency on siege. I think 5 res to change a PG individual frequency. Considering two phase gate frequency will need changing whatever amount selected will ultimate be twice the cost - so 10 res for two PG be on its own channel.
Siege mod has 3 "frequency" for phase gates. By default all phase gates (PGs) start on Frequency 1 and the commander can change phase gates to be on different frequency. So only PGs on the same Frequency are connected. This works without a problem and I really like the concept which already has a working version. I think this frequency concept should be incorporated into NS2 game.
However a slight change I would request compared to siege, is that changing the frequency should cost Team Res as it's currently free to switch frequency on siege. I think 5 res to change a PG individual frequency. Considering two phase gate frequency will need changing whatever amount selected will ultimate be twice the cost - so 10 res for two PG be on its own channel.
What are peoples thought about this?
I like the idea. I don't like that it adds complexity to an already hard to learn game. It would be a slight buff for marines and I do not know the balance implications it might have.
Siege mod has 3 "frequency" for phase gates. By default all phase gates (PGs) start on Frequency 1 and the commander can change phase gates to be on different frequency. So only PGs on the same Frequency are connected. This works without a problem and I really like the concept which already has a working version. I think this frequency concept should be incorporated into NS2 game.
However a slight change I would request compared to siege, is that changing the frequency should cost Team Res as it's currently free to switch frequency on siege. I think 5 res to change a PG individual frequency. Considering two phase gate frequency will need changing whatever amount selected will ultimate be twice the cost - so 10 res for two PG be on its own channel.
What are peoples thought about this?
I like the idea. I don't like that it adds complexity to an already hard to learn game. It would be a slight buff for marines and I do not know the balance implications it might have.
That's the beauty of it, by default all PG are on frequency 1 so the commander doesn't have to learn something new. It should be an option available in the background for ppl to learn on their own time but available for the more experience commanders.
Shouldn't really impact gameplay too much. Currently i see commanders selecting PG, recycling them and cancelling them before the recycle finished (when they have many PGs) just so that players can rush through to the alien hive.
This frequency concept would mean that the marine would either need to spend res so the two PG are on the same frequency (costing 10 res and another 5 to change back to default) or have another PG (15 res i think) and set that to a separate frequency -this way costing at least 25 res (PG + changing to PG to separate frequency if 5 res each).
It's not as confusing as i may be making it sound and it shows clearly on the map the phase gate connections.
I dont like the idea of anything from siege being incorporated into vanilla (sorry). I also don't get the point, and no, i'm not about to hop into a siege server to find out.
It sounds to me like this would make... essentially multiple pg paths which are not connected like an "X" where only 2 are connected out of 4 (as an example). I don't get the point of that other than to build more pgs than you should ever need, and to cater to commanders who actually are not as capable as you would describe. Seems like a rookie trap. Just like siege. I also don't see how this would be relevant in standard ns2 maps.
As they are, I think smart commanders are perfectly able to do what they need w/ phasegates and it already does have built-in mechanics so that newbs can use them and vets can use the high skill ceiling to use things like recycling and timing.. which really requires a lot more skill than what I believe you're describing.
If I'm wrong about my understanding about the mechanic, please elaborate.
Automatically dismissing something that comes from siege just because its from siege makes you come across as petty and as if you have a vendetta against siege, but that's besides the point.
previously it was possible to change the order phase gates went by rerecycling and then cancelling, but this was stop for whatever reason in an update. Meaning if the commander wants the phase gates to be in a certain order he will have to sell a PG and build a new one, he may have to repurchase a couple of them just to get the right order.
Another issue with the current system is that if there is 4 PGs (there shouldn't be a need for more than 4), and the 4th PG is being rushed, marines using the PG to get to that last PG often block each other as they phase especially if many phase at the same time -something i see often.
The frequency concept may lead to the commander having two PG at the main base, creating a "V" style phase gate path but that will start to cost a bit of res -at least 25 res if it costs 5 res to change frequency. An "X" style connection as you mention won't really work if that's what you are trying to say?
The frequency concept also allows for a PG to remain dormant on a separate frequence similar to the turn on/off idea this thread discusses as well as give the marine commander greater control.
Commanding for the marines is not complex nor does it have a big learning curve. It may sometimes appear difficult as a quick response time may be needed. If a person plays on the field until they understand the concept of each structures and see what other commanders do in certain maps then it's relatively straightforward.
So, if I can get the same effect, for free, by recycling/cancel my phasegates, why would I spend res on this frequency stuff? - Keep in mind, by your own admission, we're talking about experienced commanders.
Another thing I like to do - is make dual gates. I.e. in nanogrid on veil - I put 2 gates in nano, not only to make it harder for the aliens to take it back (grinding two gates is harder than one), but also so marines can choose where to phase to.
That's another 15 tres investment. So I don't see what your change would do for me personally.
Comments
Not very useful and necessary though but still interesting.
And for a good 2 more things:
- Ability to reconfigure the line teleports, but shutting down will work better off than
- Entrance to one side of the teleport sends clockwise in the other direction - counterclockwise
I know, right!
Always-on technology of the future... It's costing lives!
There are countless other ways for a commander to troll and the solution was always to eject, this applies all the same and should be treated as such.
How many keypoint positions have you lost due to having to phase through multiple positions?
You could argue well there shouldn't be THAT many phase gates in the first place but for example on ns2_veil, you have a PG in Marine Start, Nanogrid, Pipeline but you need another PG in the Dome or System, do you really want to sacrifice that PG in pipeline thats vulnerable to a well timed gorge rush? (seen this happen a 100 times).
Maybe CDT can get some opinions on this.
League of Justice I summon thee
@Decoy @GhoulofGSG9 @Asraniel @Zavaro @Obraxis @WasabiOne
EDIT* This shouldn't be too hard to implement if it gets a go ahead right? Just put the phase gate in a de-powered state like when the power node gets destroyed but can easily be switched on and off from the commander UI, heck you could even make it costs teamres if you really want to balance or add a cooldown timer, so many ways to get around the trolling aspect @MuckyMcFly
This is how it could look like:
@MuckyMcFlyhere on/off is better since u can have it on stand-by until they actually attack nano, i rather accidentally turn it off then accidentally sell it if not canceling the sell in the right time but if its on opposite side of recycle it minimize that risk.
You could even have the PG's numbered and bind the pg locations to your numkeys 1 - 9 to avoid any clunkiness/slowdown/delay you would get if you need to use a mouse to highlight the PG
EDIT* Could you make the PG's numbered in your image just to see what it looks like @CarNagE1
sorry guy, but it is too strongly for junior players.
i cant give it THE FUCKING WAYPOINT, and you promote adding to game COMMANDER CRY::
SHUT DOWN YOUR PGS, DUDES, LETS GO TO SYSTEM WAYPOINTING!!!! SHUT DOWN!!! NOW!!! RUN, DUMMIES!
commander disabling of the gates will helped to moving stupid rines to position!
Moment of madness there?
That's exactly it though: Too many gates. Having many many phase gates is not a good idea. On Veil? PG in Marine Start, Nano, Pipe. Get a PG in Dome ASAP and recycle Pipe. Or you can change your PG from being in double to being in System. No reason the gate needs to be in Nano, just close by.
Let's say you have 3 gates. #1 is in base, #2 is in Nano, #3 is in Dome. You want to do a rush. You can start a recycle on #2 in Nano so that marines phasing will go straight to dome. Just cancel the recycle before it's actually finished so you keep the gate.
I think the 'off' button would be harder / more confusing for new players to handle and you'd end up wasting a lot of res. Commanders would turn off a PG instead of recycling it, then if an alien stumbles across it, they damage it (less res back for recycle) or destroy it (res wasted). And then, what's the downside to building a PG in every single room and just turning on the ones you need? I could micro so that I could send marines to each room in the map I wanted. We'd rarely lose an RT if I could micro well enough. It's not uncommon that commanders in pubs can't handle dropping structures and medding the marines, adding more for them (especially new commanders) to have to juggle does not sound like a great idea.
Generally I won't ever put up more than 3 gates. 1 in each lane. If you have 4-5 gates, they're probably unnecessary. Instead of 'turning off' the PGs, just recycle the ones you don't want/need. Honestly, it's not something that I'd suggest the programmers spend time on. Don't fix what's not broken.
If you guys really think it's a good idea, then why doesn't someone turn it into a mod and try it out on a server? If it goes well and people really like it, perhaps it will be looked into then.
@Decoy It depends on what you deem unnecessary, having a phase gate at a vital techpoint that needs to be recycled for a forward push sounds counter productive to be honest.
Say if you lose momentum in your forward push, you've recycled pipeline PG for the sake of funnelling marines to your dome PG, which you then lose in an alien counterattack, you've lost both positions which severely hampers a marine's ability to come back into the game.
This could possibly attribute to stalemate pushes which we see often in pub servers and sometimes comp as the commander and his marines don't necessarily want to risk losing their forward position knowing that their techpoint phase is lost completely.
This issue is negated by powering down your techpoint PG for the meantime, if your forward position is lost, its not as punishing as you can simply power up your techpoint PG again.
This has happened in countless games and in my eyes a gameplay mechanic that needs to be looked into more closely.
Clicking on a phasegate and de-powering it is no less counter intuitive than navigating the UI to select power surge to be honest if anything its easier as you don't need to go through the UI, just select the PG.
I believe this will change strategies dynamically, introduce new tactics and fun gameplay if pulled off correctly.
Lol, you need create SUBAPPLICATION for create crosshairs!
so Half Life 1 access is "replace file and play"
Here's a post regarding phase gates from summer in 2011.
Welcome to the forum guys!
This is not a new idea, and you will find several threads over the years about it.
Love the active topics and this one has been discussed a few times. Pretty sure turning them on/off was overall decided by uwe and playtesters to be not the best solution, also there had been some though over prioritizing a phase gate. I'm always game to hear thoughts and suggestions again, but not sure this one would be ever be right. I mean there is something to be said about smart and tactical placement of the gates. if you can cover/defend them you probably shouldnt be placing them, no?
Suddenly, it becomes a very real, serious decision in order to remove a PG from the "rotation".
However, I think the cooldown and the resource cost is a very good balance.
However a slight change I would request compared to siege, is that changing the frequency should cost Team Res as it's currently free to switch frequency on siege. I think 5 res to change a PG individual frequency. Considering two phase gate frequency will need changing whatever amount selected will ultimate be twice the cost - so 10 res for two PG be on its own channel.
What are peoples thought about this?
I like the idea. I don't like that it adds complexity to an already hard to learn game. It would be a slight buff for marines and I do not know the balance implications it might have.
That's the beauty of it, by default all PG are on frequency 1 so the commander doesn't have to learn something new. It should be an option available in the background for ppl to learn on their own time but available for the more experience commanders.
Shouldn't really impact gameplay too much. Currently i see commanders selecting PG, recycling them and cancelling them before the recycle finished (when they have many PGs) just so that players can rush through to the alien hive.
This frequency concept would mean that the marine would either need to spend res so the two PG are on the same frequency (costing 10 res and another 5 to change back to default) or have another PG (15 res i think) and set that to a separate frequency -this way costing at least 25 res (PG + changing to PG to separate frequency if 5 res each).
It's not as confusing as i may be making it sound and it shows clearly on the map the phase gate connections.
It sounds to me like this would make... essentially multiple pg paths which are not connected like an "X" where only 2 are connected out of 4 (as an example). I don't get the point of that other than to build more pgs than you should ever need, and to cater to commanders who actually are not as capable as you would describe. Seems like a rookie trap. Just like siege. I also don't see how this would be relevant in standard ns2 maps.
As they are, I think smart commanders are perfectly able to do what they need w/ phasegates and it already does have built-in mechanics so that newbs can use them and vets can use the high skill ceiling to use things like recycling and timing.. which really requires a lot more skill than what I believe you're describing.
If I'm wrong about my understanding about the mechanic, please elaborate.
previously it was possible to change the order phase gates went by rerecycling and then cancelling, but this was stop for whatever reason in an update. Meaning if the commander wants the phase gates to be in a certain order he will have to sell a PG and build a new one, he may have to repurchase a couple of them just to get the right order.
Another issue with the current system is that if there is 4 PGs (there shouldn't be a need for more than 4), and the 4th PG is being rushed, marines using the PG to get to that last PG often block each other as they phase especially if many phase at the same time -something i see often.
The frequency concept may lead to the commander having two PG at the main base, creating a "V" style phase gate path but that will start to cost a bit of res -at least 25 res if it costs 5 res to change frequency. An "X" style connection as you mention won't really work if that's what you are trying to say?
The frequency concept also allows for a PG to remain dormant on a separate frequence similar to the turn on/off idea this thread discusses as well as give the marine commander greater control.
Commanding for the marines is not complex nor does it have a big learning curve. It may sometimes appear difficult as a quick response time may be needed. If a person plays on the field until they understand the concept of each structures and see what other commanders do in certain maps then it's relatively straightforward.
Another thing I like to do - is make dual gates. I.e. in nanogrid on veil - I put 2 gates in nano, not only to make it harder for the aliens to take it back (grinding two gates is harder than one), but also so marines can choose where to phase to.
That's another 15 tres investment. So I don't see what your change would do for me personally.
But you know, make it a mod, see if it sticks.