Before game starts - Huddle
UncleCrunch
Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
Hi,
Usually,
on public server the game starts when both teams get a commander.
on competitive mode both teams have to say "ready". In this area it's easier to prepare a strategy (all-talk disabled).
What about a huddle for public server (and comp after all) ?
The reasons are simple
-You never know what will happen on public servers when you take the commander role.
-Reading the scoreboard is somehow difficult with nicks like "(°;;;°)" or "-=|qmsfjllgk|=-". Different country, different cultures.
-You barely can say who will be Lerk/fade or defender / attacker.
An interface could help on that. It needs :
-Each player provide information like "i can do that (because i know or good a t it)" in some configuration panel. Or maybe getting automatic stats with Hive stats.
-People willing to do so. But hey they checked the box isn't it.
The commander in the "huddle interface" could eventually set
global mission for players
-Try to get in their base and make as much damage as you can.
-Defend structures.
-Forward ninja/gorge (PG/tunnel).
Life form / Type of equipments
Evolve Lerk ASAP
Get Shotguns
Get shotgun AND JP
It would be doable with little messages that are probably already traduced.
I'm sure we would see far greater games on public server.
Also
-It would help new comers know what to do. Unless they can't read.
-Help them fit in the team. It's better to have a rookie grinding RT's than being a ridiculous fade and most of the time useless (no offense). And he could see how the fades does when the fades are protecting the guys killing RTs. There are example for marines as well: Sentry bases, repairs etc.
-Everybody still can do what they want.
-We could see that 5 great fade in a team would just be a loss of time. So balance could be a little better as long as people behave.
-Not a loss of time as we can get better games.
-It would eventually decrease the time we wait for a commander.
Things like that.
Anyone with mod knowledge willing to try ?
Usually,
on public server the game starts when both teams get a commander.
on competitive mode both teams have to say "ready". In this area it's easier to prepare a strategy (all-talk disabled).
What about a huddle for public server (and comp after all) ?
The reasons are simple
-You never know what will happen on public servers when you take the commander role.
-Reading the scoreboard is somehow difficult with nicks like "(°;;;°)" or "-=|qmsfjllgk|=-". Different country, different cultures.
-You barely can say who will be Lerk/fade or defender / attacker.
An interface could help on that. It needs :
-Each player provide information like "i can do that (because i know or good a t it)" in some configuration panel. Or maybe getting automatic stats with Hive stats.
-People willing to do so. But hey they checked the box isn't it.
The commander in the "huddle interface" could eventually set
global mission for players
-Try to get in their base and make as much damage as you can.
-Defend structures.
-Forward ninja/gorge (PG/tunnel).
Life form / Type of equipments
Evolve Lerk ASAP
Get Shotguns
Get shotgun AND JP
It would be doable with little messages that are probably already traduced.
I'm sure we would see far greater games on public server.
Also
-It would help new comers know what to do. Unless they can't read.
-Help them fit in the team. It's better to have a rookie grinding RT's than being a ridiculous fade and most of the time useless (no offense). And he could see how the fades does when the fades are protecting the guys killing RTs. There are example for marines as well: Sentry bases, repairs etc.
-Everybody still can do what they want.
-We could see that 5 great fade in a team would just be a loss of time. So balance could be a little better as long as people behave.
-Not a loss of time as we can get better games.
-It would eventually decrease the time we wait for a commander.
Things like that.
Anyone with mod knowledge willing to try ?
Comments
Personally, I MAYBE would use it if I'm playing with a lot of rookies. But the problem is, if your team is unwilling to cooperate through voice and text chat, I find it extremely unlikely that they would through a corny interface.
I agree that the players must comply but that's the point of the game : teamwork. Same problem without it.
So far people (especially greenies) don't have any reminder of what to do.
That kind of reminder could help for ppl who don't understand english (most used on public).
It's still true that if we don't try anything we never gonna get anywhere.
As for people who don't speak english. I don't see how your suggestion helps that. Is the interface not in english? Please elaborate. But I will remind you that marine commanders can give waypoints, which is as universal as it gets.
The thing is a lot of players do not have or do not use a microphone. Text is just out of the question.
A commander "dashboard" to assign X task to Y player (and only before game starts not after) will provide simple messages that are actually traduced or will only take a few minutes to do. See translation forum and website. Kind of fast implementation. The technology is already there.
This English commander will be able to give to his Spanish/Danish/Russian field unit some global orders without dealing with the language barrier or the pain to try to explain every detail.
It could look like :
1 line per player ; 3 column for name / global mission / Lifeform-equipement. Some "menu select" to assign specific actions.
Ex:
@ Player N°1 = Always attack enemy base - Lerk ASAP
@ Player N°2 = Always attack enemy base - Lerk ASAP
@ Player N°3 = Grind on RTs - Fade ASAP
@ Player N°4 = Grind on RTs - Fade ASAP
@ Player N°5 = Infiltration and logistics / Gorge tunnel - Gorge
@ Player N°6 = Cover gorge - First Onos
Let's say the @ are the badge / symbol representing the things the player declared he is capable of.
So the commander would be able to adapt the strategy depending on what he has. And he could grant what ppl want. Wonderful.
On the commander part : the thing is when the game becomes a little intense (got to be everywhere all the time) you just don't use WP. Frankly i have received one or two of these since i play NS2. I give some when i got time. But clearly the commander interface is just not good at it. Whatever it is on minimap, map, or on field; WP are hugely a bad bargain considering the time lost compare to what you get from it. Rookies may need it but most of them just don't follow. Too new.
So somewhere in the middle skill-wise that btw also does not speak english.
Is there really such a thing in NS2, lets be honest? And if there is, is the effort worth it considering the size of the demographic?
It's a very VERY niche group of people you're trying to cater to here imo.
Of course the "pros" may not need it. They know.
Well; i must say : "not every competitive player". Some videos from last NSL speak for themselves.
@Gibs : it's just a matter of education.
"WTF NOOB WHY YOU NO COME GRIND PHASE GATE"
"Sorry the interface told me to go fade and grind RTs so that's all im gonna do"
Its not like I think this is a terrible idea, I just think that it will inevitably lead to oversimplification of the game mechanics, and if followed properly would encourage inflexible, set-in-stone strategies and gameplay (the kind of gameplay that makes you LOOOOOSE)
I'd like to see if you could develop this concept into something that lacks these disadvantages though
There will be always and forever dumb. I was thinking more about the 1st minutes of a game.
A lot of games are just useless as the start was bad for on team.
It's usually "fighting for nothing" on one side and for the other side "just a question of time".
It's more noticeable on 4 TPs maps. NS_caged?... ... sooooorry...
Reducing the "bad start" effect by providing critical (who does what) info can help. Then, if a commander need to redesign the strategy during the game, why not. Accessing this interface again could benefit the team organization (Especially useful for making group and redesign groups).
How long does the UI orders stay on screen for the player? Do we need the extra clutter on our screen? The comm can already give us waypoints, it isn't a massive jump to infer what our objective is from that, which is far simpler for a comm to adjust throughout the match than scrolling through a menu.
Most Pub games take a while to get started, with people not eager to jump into the commander role on one side. Theres plenty of time to talk tactics there (just be mindful of alltalk enabled servers - you may need to do some typing and hope you're understood). We don't need a system that is going to prolong the start even more whilst commanders click through menu's assigning orders that will either be ignored or won't be relevant after the first 2 minutes of a match.
You adequately put that "All talk" can ruin everything.
A commander prefers not to talk in the first second of a game. It allows units to listen to any sound that gives a hint about where "they" are. WP are always a hassle concerning management, especially in the beginning of a game. With great teams, a commander never have time for that.
It doesn't have to be written always on the screen (HUD). A hint in the Evolve / Buy menu, or even the in the map will do. "you"re supposed to do xxxx" is enough.
All we have to do is to make a tool that allows to share some of the skill with the team in language-agnostic way.
For example, comm can share map awareness by painting zones on the map (like "attention, sneaky PG", "incoming arcs" or "our tunnel is being rushed" + complete predefined database of attributes down to "don't bite the power node"). And arrows that lead to these zones will be shown on the HUD to guide players there.
Comm should be able to select some players (or entire classes) and press a hotkey which says "pay attention to this zone!". The players HUD will show directions and zone objective. If the player is not following that objective for some time, arrow dissapears and the comm is notified about that because the game is showing him lists of people assigned to each area.
There can be inactive zones that are not shown to anyone except the comm, but all the info is filled in and ready to go for the next planned attack.
There can be some constant objectives that are shown as pale arrows on the HUD (bite some res).
Zones can be without waypoints. It is useful for lerks: just big zones and a "you are out of the combat zone" HUD notification when doing stupid things.
Annex about waypoint correction
Obviously the shortest way to a zone is not always an option, so the comm UI must be able to handle quick waypoint editing: imagine the target zone as a pond and it is raining heavily all over the map. All of the the water flows through the corridors to the pond. Directions, this imaginary water takes - are the directions players should be using to approach the target area. Comm have to set up barrages to correct this navigational graph.