What I meant was, pros and cons of DX9, DX11, and OGL specifically in NS2.
If I do understand what you are asking, which I am not positive yet, I have heards that: Dx9 has the least input lag, dx 11 has better frame times, and OGL should be left alone unless on linux.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
Only DX9 is officially supported. DX11 completely broke for me a few updates ago, and won't even load. OpenGL is now a Linux only option. The pros and cons are - DX9 is the only renderer supported on windows, all others are experimental, and if you have multi-monitors like I do, DX11 is completely broken.
For me before the update broke my DX11 Multi-Monitor support, DX11 was smoother and a couple of fps higher than DX9.
I tested DX9 and DX11 on my single monitor setup about 2 patches ago and found the same thing I found when I first tested it on release of DX11 in NS2: DX11 consistently performed worse in my hands than DX9 with all settings kept the same. The difference was very minor, around 0.5-0.8% so may not be statistically significant (I didn't do many tests and they weren't scientifically rigorous).
I could notice the improvement in input lag when switching back to DX9.
What I meant was, pros and cons of DX9, DX11, and OGL specifically in NS2.
If I do understand what you are asking, which I am not positive yet, I have heards that: Dx9 has the least input lag, dx 11 has better frame times, and OGL should be left alone unless on linux.
@james888, even though AMD's new drivers significantly reduced frame time variance (before new drivers CrossFire was a mess), most AMD cards in crossfire still have higher frame time variance than Nvidia cards in SLI.
So basically, use DX9 for most cases, DX11 for AMD crossfire (since they have high frame time variance), and OGL for linux.
Just a question, why did we bother making DX11?
I'm wondering the most is why they included DX11 with pretty much zero benefits and they refuse to even talk about AMD Mantle, but in the same breath admit the game is horribly CPU bound. Huh? Starting to wonder where did my 70 bucks for Shadow upgrade go. Booze and drugs?
So basically, use DX9 for most cases, DX11 for AMD crossfire (since they have high frame time variance), and OGL for linux.
Just a question, why did we bother making DX11?
I'm wondering the most is why they included DX11 with pretty much zero benefits and they refuse to even talk about AMD Mantle, but in the same breath admit the game is horribly CPU bound. Huh? Starting to wonder where did my 70 bucks for Shadow upgrade go. Booze and drugs?
Your 75 (?) bucks went on all the development up to and including the reinforced patch, not beyond. And even then, donations fell short of the costs of that development, which was otherwise supported from NS2 sales. Seriously, stop viewing the money you donated to UWE as a stake in their company.
They wanted to add Linux support, so they had to make the renderer pluggable anyway.
On paper, DX11 promised performance benefits.
Adapting the DX9 renderer for DX11 was probably less work than writing a new one for OpenGL, so they figured it was worth a shot.
After they wrote the DX11 renderer, it turned out that the benefits were smaller than expected.
And before somebody says "they should have known that"... beyond a certain code complexity, you just have to build a prototype and benchmark it. Predicting how a certain piece of code will perform on modern hardware (in various configurations) is very hard.
So basically, use DX9 for most cases, DX11 for AMD crossfire (since they have high frame time variance), and OGL for linux.
Just a question, why did we bother making DX11?
I'm wondering the most is why they included DX11 with pretty much zero benefits and they refuse to even talk about AMD Mantle, but in the same breath admit the game is horribly CPU bound. Huh? Starting to wonder where did my 70 bucks for Shadow upgrade go. Booze and drugs?
Your 75 (?) bucks went on all the development up to and including the reinforced patch, not beyond. And even then, donations fell short of the costs of that development, which was otherwise supported from NS2 sales. Seriously, stop viewing the money you donated to UWE as a stake in their company.
Really? So, i got the game for free when i bought it. Oh wait, i haven't. And no, i haven't bought it on a deal day. So, where has that money went then? You donate stuff to encourage further support, not for them to ditch it instead... which is what they basically did. I'd gladly donate more if they'd be willing to show any kind of interest, but they just don't. Then so be it. Considering i've never ever paid so much for any kind extras, i guess it's a lesson learned for the future. I'm just not sure where they expect to get any sort of income with anything else. NS2 is their flagship product and they got known because of it. That's like id Software entirely ditching Doom/Wolfenstein franchise and decide to make fishing simulators instead. That would be oximoronic. Just like ditching the NS franchise.
So basically, use DX9 for most cases, DX11 for AMD crossfire (since they have high frame time variance), and OGL for linux.
Just a question, why did we bother making DX11?
I'm wondering the most is why they included DX11 with pretty much zero benefits and they refuse to even talk about AMD Mantle, but in the same breath admit the game is horribly CPU bound. Huh? Starting to wonder where did my 70 bucks for Shadow upgrade go. Booze and drugs?
Your 75 (?) bucks went on all the development up to and including the reinforced patch, not beyond. And even then, donations fell short of the costs of that development, which was otherwise supported from NS2 sales. Seriously, stop viewing the money you donated to UWE as a stake in their company.
Really? So, i got the game for free when i bought it. Oh wait, i haven't. And no, i haven't bought it on a deal day. So, where has that money went then? You donate stuff to encourage further support, not for them to ditch it instead... which is what they basically did. I'd gladly donate more if they'd be willing to show any kind of interest, but they just don't. Then so be it. Considering i've never ever paid so much for any kind extras, i guess it's a lesson learned for the future. I'm just not sure where they expect to get any sort of income with anything else. NS2 is their flagship product and they got known because of it. That's like id Software entirely ditching Doom/Wolfenstein franchise and decide to make fishing simulators instead. That would be oximoronic. Just like ditching the NS franchise.
AFAIK the reinforced money mostly went to pay for the map Eclipse as maps were one of the more requested things. They chose to not work on performance because of a cost benefit analysis and they were not sure they could improve performance substantially enough to make it worth it. So by what I know that money was almost entirely used for labour in different aspects of the game.
There was a lot of forum drama when the devs were slowing down more so on ns2, and even pretty much halting development. Again, afaik, they couldn't afford paying for more dev time on ns2. Either there would be no UWE or a few more builds of ns2. Instead we got a great compromise with the CDT team of which the next patch they are putting out has us all extremely excited.
Really? So, i got the game for free when i bought it. Oh wait, i haven't. And no, i haven't bought it on a deal day. So, where has that money went then? You donate stuff to encourage further support, not for them to ditch it instead... which is what they basically did. I'd gladly donate more if they'd be willing to show any kind of interest, but they just don't. Then so be it. Considering i've never ever paid so much for any kind extras, i guess it's a lesson learned for the future. I'm just not sure where they expect to get any sort of income with anything else. NS2 is their flagship product and they got known because of it. That's like id Software entirely ditching Doom/Wolfenstein franchise and decide to make fishing simulators instead. That would be oximoronic. Just like ditching the NS franchise.
Lol, you're literally just being wilfully ignorant of any possibility that doesn't end up in you being pissed off.
Is it really so hard to imagine that maybe something like this happenned-
{game gets made. Mmm where does the money come from to keep people alive while this is happenning?}
{game gets released. Sales mean net +$$$, so lets assume we're breaking even or hopefully even profiting at the moment, money-wise. Remember that Spark and NS2 have been a decade in development}
{Patches and new content (say, reinforced as one of many examples) released for free. Post-release sales bring in less money than required to produce said content so -$$$. UWE now possibly facing money deficit because of all the work going in to provide us with fun .}
{ UWE asks for voluntary donations to help them tick over until more profits can be made. You willingly make donation} - What would have happenned if UWE had recieved no donations at all? Well the devs would probably have to find other employment in order to pay bills, eat, etc, and UWE operations would truly grind to a halt, along with NS2 development
{ UWE hands over development to highly capable volunteers because they dont want to see the game die, yet they know that maintaining the past rate of content production for NS2 is not sustainable; they must continue to make profit or UWE will cease to exist, so they begin to work on a new product that will generate revenue. }
Like seriously, all this is completely reasonable to expect (as an approximation of the true events of course; im not UWEs accountant and nor should I be :P ). But my point is, its easy to construct a sympathetic standpoint; you're just choosing not to.
UWE have done really, really cool things, in seeding both the Combat standalone from its humble roots as a mod, much how NS started, and in assembling the CDT who will quite likely go on to be an asset to UWE and possibly anyone else that wants to use spark+LUA. If you cant see how insanely cool that is, shame on you.
It was all explained why UWE were asking for donations. You willingly donated, and yet seem to have internally constructed your own expectations of what that reality is, that you insist on peddling even though it's been endlessly explained otherwise. Shame on you. Take the tinfoil hat off mate, nobody is out to defraud you here.
So, where has that money went then? You donate stuff to encourage further support, not for them to ditch it instead... which is what they basically did..
Like the reinforced program video, reinforced blog post, and forum posts all clearly state: your donation money went to recovering development costs of reinforced itself.
Which still didn't meet its goal / total cost.
UWE, an indie game developer, continued to release hundreds of patches with new features and maps and fixes for a year after release FOR FREE. Every bit of this development cost them money. Your voluntary donation was just that, and is a great way to support a company and a game you love.
But if that wasn't enough... To show their appreciation for your donation you were also given exclusive items like badges, multiple new models and skins and taunts etc (all of which costed money to development too)
Fear not, though, as improvements and fixes have not ceased!
If you wish to follow the continuing development of ns2 please see the Community Development Team 's progress on our trello page.
Comments
Marines -
Pro: it's something to sit on
Con: It's a juicy target for skulks
Exosuit -
Pro: You get to say stuff like "Bite my shiny metal..."
Con: "does my *** look big in this?"
Skulk -
Pro: It's got a tail!
Con: It's a small tail
Gorge -
Pro: it doesn't cause friction when sliding
Con: it might get confused for a tunnel
Lerk -
Pro: It's a small target
Con: everything comes out the other end
Onos -
Pro: Could crush marines under it's weight
Con: It's frickin' huge
You're going to need to be a whole lot more specific.
Posts that only hint at what they mean, leaving the reader puzzled and wondering?
Rather, a certain someone's entertaining and never dull threads.
I hear he has a good story about them.
For me before the update broke my DX11 Multi-Monitor support, DX11 was smoother and a couple of fps higher than DX9.
I could notice the improvement in input lag when switching back to DX9.
Bingo
Just a question, why did we bother making DX11?
I'm wondering the most is why they included DX11 with pretty much zero benefits and they refuse to even talk about AMD Mantle, but in the same breath admit the game is horribly CPU bound. Huh? Starting to wonder where did my 70 bucks for Shadow upgrade go. Booze and drugs?
Your 75 (?) bucks went on all the development up to and including the reinforced patch, not beyond. And even then, donations fell short of the costs of that development, which was otherwise supported from NS2 sales. Seriously, stop viewing the money you donated to UWE as a stake in their company.
My best guesses would be:
And before somebody says "they should have known that"... beyond a certain code complexity, you just have to build a prototype and benchmark it. Predicting how a certain piece of code will perform on modern hardware (in various configurations) is very hard.
Really? So, i got the game for free when i bought it. Oh wait, i haven't. And no, i haven't bought it on a deal day. So, where has that money went then? You donate stuff to encourage further support, not for them to ditch it instead... which is what they basically did. I'd gladly donate more if they'd be willing to show any kind of interest, but they just don't. Then so be it. Considering i've never ever paid so much for any kind extras, i guess it's a lesson learned for the future. I'm just not sure where they expect to get any sort of income with anything else. NS2 is their flagship product and they got known because of it. That's like id Software entirely ditching Doom/Wolfenstein franchise and decide to make fishing simulators instead. That would be oximoronic. Just like ditching the NS franchise.
AFAIK the reinforced money mostly went to pay for the map Eclipse as maps were one of the more requested things. They chose to not work on performance because of a cost benefit analysis and they were not sure they could improve performance substantially enough to make it worth it. So by what I know that money was almost entirely used for labour in different aspects of the game.
There was a lot of forum drama when the devs were slowing down more so on ns2, and even pretty much halting development. Again, afaik, they couldn't afford paying for more dev time on ns2. Either there would be no UWE or a few more builds of ns2. Instead we got a great compromise with the CDT team of which the next patch they are putting out has us all extremely excited.
Is it really so hard to imagine that maybe something like this happenned-
{game gets made. Mmm where does the money come from to keep people alive while this is happenning?}
{game gets released. Sales mean net +$$$, so lets assume we're breaking even or hopefully even profiting at the moment, money-wise. Remember that Spark and NS2 have been a decade in development}
{Patches and new content (say, reinforced as one of many examples) released for free. Post-release sales bring in less money than required to produce said content so -$$$. UWE now possibly facing money deficit because of all the work going in to provide us with fun .}
{ UWE asks for voluntary donations to help them tick over until more profits can be made. You willingly make donation} - What would have happenned if UWE had recieved no donations at all? Well the devs would probably have to find other employment in order to pay bills, eat, etc, and UWE operations would truly grind to a halt, along with NS2 development
{ UWE hands over development to highly capable volunteers because they dont want to see the game die, yet they know that maintaining the past rate of content production for NS2 is not sustainable; they must continue to make profit or UWE will cease to exist, so they begin to work on a new product that will generate revenue. }
Like seriously, all this is completely reasonable to expect (as an approximation of the true events of course; im not UWEs accountant and nor should I be :P ). But my point is, its easy to construct a sympathetic standpoint; you're just choosing not to.
UWE have done really, really cool things, in seeding both the Combat standalone from its humble roots as a mod, much how NS started, and in assembling the CDT who will quite likely go on to be an asset to UWE and possibly anyone else that wants to use spark+LUA. If you cant see how insanely cool that is, shame on you.
It was all explained why UWE were asking for donations. You willingly donated, and yet seem to have internally constructed your own expectations of what that reality is, that you insist on peddling even though it's been endlessly explained otherwise. Shame on you. Take the tinfoil hat off mate, nobody is out to defraud you here.
Which still didn't meet its goal / total cost.
UWE, an indie game developer, continued to release hundreds of patches with new features and maps and fixes for a year after release FOR FREE. Every bit of this development cost them money. Your voluntary donation was just that, and is a great way to support a company and a game you love.
But if that wasn't enough... To show their appreciation for your donation you were also given exclusive items like badges, multiple new models and skins and taunts etc (all of which costed money to development too)
Fear not, though, as improvements and fixes have not ceased!
If you wish to follow the continuing development of ns2 please see the Community Development Team 's progress on our trello page.
that gave the least input lag