Hlguard Is Not Acceptable

TiberionEliteTiberionElite Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7373Members
<div class="IPBDescription">In need of solutions</div> I recently tried to put HLGuard on my server, Coronas in Space. Unfortunately it spiked CPU usage almost 200% over the standard CPU usage. this is completely unacceptable and I was wondering if anyone else has working solutions. Wallhack, while debatable if it really will help all too much since the good player in NS pretty much has the equiv, is a hack and I would like to get rid of this. Also aimbot is starting to show up, and I will be damned if I'm going to let the server degenerate into a testing ground for new hacks as they come out.

Much thanks to anyone who responds with working solutions on any level. The only thing I will not do is modify the standard NS code, so please do not respond with any suggestions of that kind.

TiberionElite
Owner of Coronas in Space
129.21.122.105:27015

Comments

  • ECA_ShocK-TroopeRECA_ShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11472Banned
    hl guard is practicaly useless against cheats these days, it will look for a couple of cvars which are usualy out dated, or incomplete, and the look in directories for cheats. it really takes a VERY stupid person who does not read readmes to get caught, i have not seen a cheater get caught by it or csguard in over 12 months, i used to play a fair bit.

    in my opinion cheating death is the only way to go, game loader dont work, and other cheats are snuffed out by it because of the way it works.

    you might also want to resurect punk buster, it catches wall hacks very well, and most coders dont put in anti punk buster anymore. if you want to give it a shot, i still have copies of it (i think)
  • TiberionEliteTiberionElite Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7373Members
    Sure it would even work with NS?
  • ECA_ShocK-TroopeRECA_ShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11472Banned
    pretty sure

    i dont know how the alien hive sight will work as that is much like a wall hack in the way it works (i think)

    but give it a shot in lan mode, cant hurt to try it. if your players dont like it then just take it off.


    make sure that you mirror the client files on your webpage or somewhere easy to get to
  • ECA_ShocK-TroopeRECA_ShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11472Banned
    edited January 2003
    Get your anti cheats, anti cheats, anti cheats, hot steaming anti cheats!

    ok so a little over done <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    ive put all the anti cheats i can find up here:
    <a href='ftp://ftp%23octane-design.biz@octane-design.biz/pub/NS/ServerAdmins/' target='_blank'>ftp://ftp%23octane-design.biz@octane-desi...S/ServerAdmins/</a>

    have fun kiddies, i will be putting up older versions of the files soonish for those who have problems (older may work <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> )

    currently up:
    - admin mod windows, linux (linux uploading now)
    - ClanMod + some plugins
    - client/server cheating death 0.8B
    - client/[win|linux server] cheating death 1.2.3.0
    - paladin win server/client
    - pbc to jpg
    - punk buster server/client 0.956
    - Daedalus Interface 1.0.2 (something new, but targeted at cs, VERY cool)
    - visual hlds
    - [WHO]Them's plugins

    ill try to keep this upto date
  • verboseverbose Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9968Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--|-ECA.ShocK-TroopeR+Jan 6 2003, 03:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|-ECA.ShocK-TroopeR @ Jan 6 2003, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->in my opinion cheating death is the only way to go, game loader dont work, and other cheats are snuffed out by it because of the way it works.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The <a href='http://www.unitedadmins.com' target='_blank'>United Admins</a> group acquired <a href='http://www.cheating-death.com' target='_blank'>Cheating-Death</a> on 26 December 2002. This is a Good Thing. UA is responsible for ClanMod, Statsme, and HLGuard. Their work on server-side anti-cheating with HLGuard, coupled with the already working codebase of Cheating-Death will likely result in an even better Client+Server anti-cheat product soon.
  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    UA has done good work in the past, but I can't help but worry about the few past incidents with development choices and somewhat less-than-friendly demeanor where HLGuard was concerned. Also can only remain hopeful that the two will not become an aggregate.. whereas HLGuard was fairly thorough at its inception, as noted in prior posts it's grown more outdated, less effective, and generally runs a far greater resource-load than is acceptable considering the number of cheaters that it catches, or discourages. Which, 99% of the time, the results could be duplicated by an onjoin lookalike banner.
    Cheating-Death tends to be lighter-weight, more efficient, and most importantly more <b>effective</b>.. instead of detecting and killing cheaters, simply making most of the cheats impotent by cutting away most of the datastream they need to function as intended.

    All I can say is, I'm hanging onto my older copy of C-D until I hear some really good reviews, from medium to low-end server setups, regardless of mod or lack thereof.
  • ECA_ShocK-TroopeRECA_ShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11472Banned
    edited January 2003
    i too dont have much faith in UA, they say they do it for all of hl engine, its really just cs, and some other mods. (tfc, dod)

    kinda sad really,

    i have all the old/current versions on my Admins File Archive at: <a href='ftp://ftp%23octane-design.biz@octane-design.biz/pub/NS/ServerAdmins' target='_blank'>ftp://ftp%23octane-design.biz@octane-desi...NS/ServerAdmins</a>

    take a look, ive got a stack of stuff there =)


    also i am trying to get a team together to develop and anti cheat, just looking for files and cvars ala csg style, but i would like to add some more things to it, perhaps open source?
  • GoleXGoleX Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7681Members
    edited January 2003
    CD does not work correctly with NS at this time. Hullu (who is now in charge of CD dev. over at UA) says it will require a new client/server release to fix it. He is working on it, but it won't be available till the UA webmasters complete the CD section of the UA webpage.

    Looks like we are out of luck as far as anti-cheats go for the meantime. =/

    Oh btw, there is a beta version of the server that works alright, but you have to run it in Required mode, and there are a bunch of bugs involved with it (comm can't see the buildings they are trying to place etc.)
  • ECA_ShocK-TroopeRECA_ShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11472Banned
    i dont think that cd will ever work with ns, motion tracking, hive sight, and such will not be able to show up.
  • SilverHorseSilverHorse Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8291Members
    About the only thing we can do now is have admins with their eyes open, and who know the difference between skill and hacking. Of course.. oftentimes its hard to figure out between the two.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    Motion-tracking, hivesight, etc. are completely server-side and should work fine with CD (at least as much as I understand it). The server sends a separate message indicating the positions of these blips, it doesn't rely on player information on the client.
  • ECA_ShocK-TroopeRECA_ShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11472Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin--Flayra+Jan 8 2003, 12:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ Jan 8 2003, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Motion-tracking, hivesight, etc. are completely server-side and should work fine with CD (at least as much as I understand it). The server sends a separate message indicating the positions of these blips, it doesn't rely on player information on the client.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ah, cool thats good to hear.

    hey flayra, is there anyway you can re-introduce the whole client side file searching?
  • HoundDawgHoundDawg Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3362Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--|-ECA.ShocK-TroopeR+Jan 7 2003, 08:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|-ECA.ShocK-TroopeR @ Jan 7 2003, 08:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i too dont have much faith in UA, they say they do it for all of hl engine, its really just cs, and some other mods. (tfc, dod)

    kinda sad really,

    ...

    also i am trying to get a team together to develop and anti cheat, just looking for files and cvars ala csg style, but i would like to add some more things to it, perhaps open source?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    1) Valve has effectively prevented CD from working on any VAC enabled MOD. So, CD will never work on CS or DoD again. Yes, we've tried to get Valve to work with us on allowing our Anti-Cheat to co-exist with VAC. I don't think they want a competing product against the VAC, which I think their goal is to resell that technology to other game developers. But, we are committed to non-VAC MODs still.

    2) Several groups of people have talked about CSG style of cheat detections and getting them to work again. I'll tell you, like the other ignorant people, Valve has disabled a few critical engine features on the server side which renders that style completely worthless. The only way you're going to come close to that now, is to have your own server and client outside the HL engine. For that, you'll need buy-in from admins and players which isn't an easy task.

    3) Yes, hullu is currently close to having CD ready for NS. If he finishes within the next few days, look for a release at the end of this week. Otherwise, it'll be next week sometime.
  • HoundDawgHoundDawg Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3362Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--|-ECA.ShocK-TroopeR+Jan 7 2003, 10:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|-ECA.ShocK-TroopeR @ Jan 7 2003, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hey flayra, is there anyway you can re-introduce the whole client side file searching?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's part of the HL engine not the MOD, so I doubt there's anything that Flayra can do.
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    Is there any point at all in running HLG on an NS server at this point? It doesn't look for anything NS specific, and the aimbot detection screws up skulk bites. If someone could point me to the best alternative, I would be mighty pleased. Oh, and I would prefer to not need a client program running - it defeats the point of running a public server.
  • HoundDawgHoundDawg Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3362Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Narfwak+Jan 8 2003, 01:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Jan 8 2003, 01:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is there any point at all in running HLG on an NS server at this point? It doesn't look for anything NS specific, and the aimbot detection screws up skulk bites. If someone could point me to the best alternative, I would be mighty pleased. Oh, and I would prefer to not need a client program running - it defeats the point of running a public server.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I currently run the latest which comes with a NS config for specific checks. I only run with cvar checking on and have the option to activate the other features when I suspect a cheater.

    This has worked good because I can tell if the player cheated or not. Shortly after activated the wallhack blocking, they end up leaving. Probably to restart their computer thinking it got messed up. LOL.

    Anyway, I don't notice any difference when running just cvar checks and everything else disabled. There will be a version of CD for NS soon. Keep checking the news at <a href='http://www.unitedadmins.com' target='_blank'>http://www.unitedadmins.com</a> for release information.
  • ECA_ShocK-TroopeRECA_ShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11472Banned
    out of 57 hacks i have downloaded to look specifically for cvars, testing on lan, there is NOT ONE that has cvars.

    hlg can go play with someone else for all i care, it lags up the server when bot detection is on, and cant catch anything.

    goto <a href='http://www.octane-design.biz/projects/ns_anticheat/' target='_blank'>http://www.octane-design.biz/projects/ns_anticheat/</a> hasnt started yet, we are thinking of smart ideas since we cant go file searching.
  • SuicideDogSuicideDog Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8104Members
    edited January 2003
    /me looks at his sig!! Then looks at 150+ posts .. It's worth it to me to start from 0 again.. I would've done the same thing .. btw .. maybe there is some way to get the NS team involved in this.. so it can be released/update by the client (who know .. I've seen stranger things) I mean punkbuster is built right into some games.
  • ECA_ShocK-TroopeRECA_ShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11472Banned
    edited January 2003
    <span style='color:purple'><b>I'm an ill-informed kid who wants to spam forums.</span></b>
  • HoundDawgHoundDawg Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3362Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--|-ECA.ShocK-TroopeR+Jan 8 2003, 08:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (|-ECA.ShocK-TroopeR @ Jan 8 2003, 08:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->out of 57 hacks i have downloaded to look specifically for cvars, testing on lan, there is NOT ONE that has cvars.

    hlg can go play with someone else for all i care, it lags up the server when bot detection is on, and cant catch anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    With the imposed limitations on the server by the last few HLDS patches, anyone attempting to do an HLG alternative will be wasting their time. Sure, it may lag a NS server a bit much. I currently run it with just cvar checks activated. Once I suspect a cheater, I'll typically activate a few settings and see how well the player does. Most of the time they leave because HLG is affecting their cheat in one fashion or another.

    Since Valve doesn't want to eliminate cheating completely from multiplayer games, the only alternative is to wait for VAC or utilize the upcoming CD release for NS.

    Although, if you want to start your own venture, I wish you luck.
  • shockie_got_bannedshockie_got_banned Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12045Banned
    heh, i got banned =)

    i dont intend re-making hlg
  • HtNickoliHtNickoli Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9786Members
    Well from all the idiot posts you seem to have made, as well as that rather immature name you have choosen to use, I'd say the ban was warrented. Just how old are you? Because your not leaving a very good impression. PPL like you who think they are r33t becuase they can rejoin something after being banned are usually thoose who need to stay banned.
  • ShocK-TroopeRShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12046Banned
    i dont think im 1337, not even close. nor am i trying to be. i just dont think that its right from what i heard from voogru. I was willing to swap places with him, loose all my posts, PM's, etc so that he, who does more for the community can post, and make input with his old account.

    i just wanted to add one post with that name, then re-register without my clan tag on. i was thinking about it anyway. im not trying to be a jerk. i was just trying to help someone better than me.

    (dont ban me again, ill be good)
  • HoundDawgHoundDawg Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3362Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--ShocK-TroopeR+Jan 8 2003, 04:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ShocK-TroopeR @ Jan 8 2003, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i dont think im 1337, not even close. nor am i trying to be. i just dont think that its right from what i heard from voogru. I was willing to swap places with him, loose all my posts, PM's, etc so that he, who does more for the community can post, and make input with his old account.

    i just wanted to add one post with that name, then re-register without my clan tag on. i was thinking about it anyway. im not trying to be a jerk. i was just trying to help someone better than me.

    (dont ban me again, ill be good)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, ban-evasion is typically a trait of cheaters and hackers. So, this coupled with your immature post spams doesn't leave a good impression as someone trying to lead a group of developers. I think it'll take time for you to regain respect and show your maturity before being accepted as a contribution to the community rather than a hinderance which you've seemed to have shown thus far. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Of course, your term here on the forums will depend on the moderators. I know at UA, we have low tolerance for ban evasion users. It's usually a good sign of their character.
  • ShocK-TroopeRShocK-TroopeR Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12046Banned
  • Spyder_MonkeySpyder_Monkey Vampire-Ninja-Monkey Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 8Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Yes, it is frowned upon...

    First, you should get your facts straight. Voogru is not banned from these forums. He still has read-only access to them, and will be able to post come friday. That, my misguided friend, is called a Suspension. As you will notice his member group is "Temporarily Suspended", unlike yours, which will always read "Banned" as I find them.
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