The problem with buffing exos is pub where most people go exos, if you have 3-4 exos pushing your hive it's literally a wall of death, esp some hives where exos have a long hallway they can use as a fire line while waiting for arcs to build. Marines can have an exo in their main and if you don't get your entire team to go on all in rush you're pretty much out of luck.
I sort of like exos the way they are now with the exception of lower movement speed while firing, and beacon (why was it even added?). Lerks, fades and skulks have a good chance of taking an exo out and the alien team doesn't entirely have to rely on onoses to push back an attack
What if the research for JP and Exo were combined into one "Prototype Equipment" research, and the cost increased slightly
And then add an "Mk II Prototypes" research for dual Exos and possibly buffs to JPs? (nerf JPs a bit on first level research)
Removes the "Exos are just to expensive when I can research JPs" argument.
Granted, this does nothing about fixing Exos, just makes them appear more often (i think they're mostly fine, just need more utility and lateral thrusters)
The problem with buffing exos is pub where most people go exos, if you have 3-4 exos pushing your hive it's literally a wall of death, esp some hives where exos have a long hallway they can use as a fire line while waiting for arcs to build. Marines can have an exo in their main and if you don't get your entire team to go on all in rush you're pretty much out of luck.
I sort of like exos the way they are now with the exception of lower movement speed while firing, and beacon (why was it even added?). Lerks, fades and skulks have a good chance of taking an exo out and the alien team doesn't entirely have to rely on onoses to push back an attack
''if you have 3-4 exos pushing your hive it's literally a wall of your bad gameplay , no res bite''
'' if you have 3-4 onos pushing your com it's literally a wall of death and hp''
'' if you have 3-4 exos/onos pushing your com/hive it's needs to be literally GG''
but is not cuz one gorge can slow, stop exos with good position, one marine cant do crap agains 3-4 onos , no mather what weapons he have .
What if the research for JP and Exo were combined into one "Prototype Equipment" research, and the cost increased slightly
And then add an "Mk II Prototypes" research for dual Exos and possibly buffs to JPs? (nerf JPs a bit on first level research)
Removes the "Exos are just to expensive when I can research JPs" argument.
Granted, this does nothing about fixing Exos, just makes them appear more often (i think they're mostly fine, just need more utility and lateral thrusters)
So this basically nerfs jet packs. We don't want exo suits to show up more often. We want them to be worth the investment, so that it will naturally be used more. Not a literal and proven "marine troll/lose for no reason button"
Not sure lateral boosters alone will be enough to sway it's usage, but I like where that thought is going.
NS1 gave the marine a choice to become tougher and immune to spores via heavy armor or very fast and maneuverable via jet packs.
Both of which were straight upgrades from the base marine with different ways to execute.
In NS2 a marine getting an exo suit means he sacrifices critical utility and speed for infinite ammo and a slight HP and damage increase. Sounds like a step back and to the side.
I'd like to see the exo be a real strategic tank piece and be able to spearhead an assault much like an onos. Perhaps give him some abilities to absorb or reduce incoming damage for a few moments? Like a Bubble shield to protect nearby teammates? Or just a personal nano shield?
The Onos got this in the form of bone shield, maybe exo suits counterpart has a duration and allows movement (maybe also shoot?).
Because the Onos bone shield can be activated without cool down, but sacrifices movement. The exo shield drains from the "weapon energy" to generate the shield for a few seconds. You can shoot, but you'll overload the weapons and be on a long cool down. Or you can not shoot and use it longer allowing the Exo to escape, albeit slow and without retaliation.
Might help both make it less squishy even for a moment to make it useful. Think of TF2 Medic + Heavy with the heal gun shield. It breaks up stalemate and make the game a bit more fluid.
The problem with buffing exos is pub where most people go exos, if you have 3-4 exos pushing your hive it's literally a wall of death, esp some hives where exos have a long hallway they can use as a fire line while waiting for arcs to build. Marines can have an exo in their main and if you don't get your entire team to go on all in rush you're pretty much out of luck.
I sort of like exos the way they are now with the exception of lower movement speed while firing, and beacon (why was it even added?). Lerks, fades and skulks have a good chance of taking an exo out and the alien team doesn't entirely have to rely on onoses to push back an attack
''if you have 3-4 exos pushing your hive it's literally a wall of your bad gameplay , no res bite''
'' if you have 3-4 onos pushing your com it's literally a wall of death and hp''
'' if you have 3-4 exos/onos pushing your com/hive it's needs to be literally GG''
but is not cuz one gorge can slow, stop exos with good position, one marine cant do crap agains 3-4 onos , no mather what weapons he have .
Not sure why you're bringing up res biting, this is not a discussion on how to prevent exos.
Played a game yesterday where aliens had 6 onoses and we marines managed to take the third hive in just the right time and after 20 minutes win so I wish what you're saying were true which it is sadly not
Make the Exosuit AI controlled if you eject out of it, and it'll follow the owner around like a heavily armed puppy.
Ohhhh man, if the exo could then be commanded to build something while you cover it... That'd be so damn cool.
I think having the guns active without a marine in the cockpit seems highly unsafe, what if they recognise a teammate as an alien? Definite safety feature needed there if it were to be implemented
After you've tinkered with those values, what would the new exos role actually be? You're suggested "mobile turret/suppression" role is still outperformed by the jetpack. You'd need to increase the combat values of the exo so immensely to make up for the lack of in-combat mobility that you'd create something that I was advocating against: not a strategic choice of arsenal but a superior choice for every encounter.
The role of base destruction, however, is one that the exo fills the worst; if you're able to invade inside the alien base without getting overrun, jetpacks are the better choice as they can deliver roughly the same amount of dps but with more versatility and survivability, and if you're not able to invade the alien base without getting overrun you wouldn't with exos either. The absolutely weakest position for an exo is pushing inside a defended alien base, having a constant barrage of skulks at your ankles, bile at your battle screen and spikes coming in from every direction. If you aren't able to push inside an alien base, you do not go for exos, you got for ARCs or attack on a different front.
After you've tinkered with those values, what would the new exos role actually be? You're suggested "mobile turret/suppression" role is still outperformed by the jetpack. You'd need to increase the combat values of the exo so immensely to make up for the lack of in-combat mobility that you'd create something that I was advocating against: not a strategic choice of arsenal but a superior choice for every encounter.
The role of base destruction, however, is one that the exo fills the worst; if you're able to invade inside the alien base without getting overrun, jetpacks are the better choice as they can deliver roughly the same amount of dps but with more versatility and survivability, and if you're not able to invade the alien base without getting overrun you wouldn't with exos either. The absolutely weakest position for an exo is pushing inside a defended alien base, having a constant barrage of skulks at your ankles, bile at your battle screen and spikes coming in from every direction. If you aren't able to push inside an alien base, you do not go for exos, you got for ARCs or attack on a different front.
Role of exo is (needs to be) end game tech. So what is enf game for marines .
Not dead aliens, but dead hive . So it is that simple !!!
Get hem this :
The Railgun's advantage is that it can pierce targets, and can deal double structural damage. So we should let it shoot through walls.
To ensure that it doesn't become an OP snipe-tank, if the shot travels through a wall, it loses it’s player-damage.''
As if people didn't whinge enough that arcs can deal AOE damage through walls, you want exos to have an aimed hitscan wall-penning attack?
It COULD work.
I'm not going to discredit the idea just because it leaves a horrible uncomfortable taste in my mouth. But i would hope for more elegant solutions to top it
What would that accomplish when we already have ARCs?
Diference like pres and res strategy
Not really as Exos are just as expensive (if not more) for the team to invest in as you have to use a ton of tres to get the proto lab then the exo upgrade to then have you team dropping 40+ pres so they can do a job which ARCs already do perfectly. Exos would have to be OP as hell to ever make that investment more worthwhile over ARCs.
MephillesGermanyJoin Date: 2013-08-07Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
not well thought out suggestion incomming:
how about giving exos something like a siege mode, where they have about 20% (or any other number that fits) more armor and their weapons don't overheat that fast. they would also give ammo to players nearby (same system as armory without health and buyable weapons). Of course they could not move while being in seige mode. It would serve as a forward base with a marine shooting the mounted guns. if thats not OP than they have a use (especially when protecting ARCs)
how about giving exos something like a siege mode, where they have about 20% (or any other number that fits) more armor and their weapons don't overheat that fast. they would also give ammo to players nearby (same system as armory without health and buyable weapons). Of course they could not move while being in seige mode. It would serve as a forward base with a marine shooting the mounted guns. if thats not OP than they have a use (especially when protecting ARCs)
After you've tinkered with those values, what would the new exos role actually be? You're suggested "mobile turret/suppression" role is still outperformed by the jetpack. You'd need to increase the combat values of the exo so immensely to make up for the lack of in-combat mobility that you'd create something that I was advocating against: not a strategic choice of arsenal but a superior choice for every encounter.
The role of base destruction, however, is one that the exo fills the worst; if you're able to invade inside the alien base without getting overrun, jetpacks are the better choice as they can deliver roughly the same amount of dps but with more versatility and survivability, and if you're not able to invade the alien base without getting overrun you wouldn't with exos either. The absolutely weakest position for an exo is pushing inside a defended alien base, having a constant barrage of skulks at your ankles, bile at your battle screen and spikes coming in from every direction. If you aren't able to push inside an alien base, you do not go for exos, you got for ARCs or attack on a different front.
The jetpack is neither a "mobile turret" - as the player has a finite amount of ammo that when extinguished costs tres to replenish - nor is it "suppression" which would suggest laying down heavy concentrated fire for teammates from a safe and typically a relatively static position.
I also do not consider an Exo to be the worst at base destruction..? (granted, current values make it not good at anything lol)
You can walk over fields of eggs to instantly destroy them, essentially egg locking a hive in seconds. Dualies can melt upgrades faster than any JPer. If the room was filled with spikes, fades and the scenario you described, a JPer would be either a distraction or a quick meal anyhow.. much more so than the Exo which requires far more damage to kill. (and even more with those proposed values)
The values i suggested would more than likely make a slightly OP Exo, given the high amount of mobility in combat with the increased armor (which will be needed when entering bases as you pointed out)
But I really don't see the problem to this considering the options that are on the table to destroy them : Get the comm to beacon to isolate them and then zerg and/or BB. This method has worked just fine in the past.
And it would not be a superior choice for every encounter... as you pointed out there are more mobile and versatile roles that it cannot fulfill. The exo would still benefit from a FT in the room too.
Basically, I think your perception of its role is influenced by the values that have been used, and that you might change your mind if you actually played a game with said values.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
@orbitalshape
lass cannon designs are typically too high of a entry barrier for new players, as they are both frustrating and have a narrow timeframe to learn how to play, before dying.
And every new player will go straight for the Exo.. so i'd vote no to that proposal, personally
The jetpack is neither a "mobile turret" - as the player has a finite amount of ammo that when extinguished costs tres to replenish - nor is it "suppression" which would suggest laying down heavy concentrated fire for teammates from a safe and typically a relatively static position.
Ammo is completely negligible and "suppressive fire" is such incredibly situational that I wouldn't call it a role.
I also do not consider an Exo to be the worst at base destruction..? (granted, current values make it not good at anything lol)
You can walk over fields of eggs to instantly destroy them, essentially egg locking a hive in seconds. Dualies can melt upgrades faster than any JPer. If the room was filled with spikes, fades and the scenario you described, a JPer would be either a distraction or a quick meal anyhow.. much more so than the Exo which requires far more damage to kill. (and even more with those proposed values)
Pushing inside a hive room is not about how fast you can destroy everything there, it's how well you can hold your presence and force the alien team OUT. Whether it takes 5 seconds or 3 seconds to kill an upgrade does not matter even slightly. Jetpacks can chase wounded aliens out and establish a presence much faster than exos can.
About exos being harder to kill than jetpackers in a hive push, I must say you are completely wrong. An exo has more HP than a jetpacker, yes, but with every single attack landing a hit and both gorges and whip bile capable of dealing huge amounts of damage as well as no possibility for in-combat medpacks the exos are the first marine units to go down. Exos are the easiest units to kill in an alien-dominated engagement (albeit from normal marines which we shouldn't obviously consider here). If I was to attack an alien room against, say, one of each lifeform and a whip, I would go down in a matter of seconds without probably taking anything down with me. As a jetpacker the only things capable of hurting me is the lerk and the fade, and perhaps the skulk depending on the room. I could try to evade them, maybe even kill them, and possibly escape afterwards. Even more so if there are both jetpacks and exos doing a push, as the alien team concentrates the easy prey down first.
The only role I could see the exo even trying to fill is that of what you said first: a relatively static and formidable defending powerhouse. But no tweaking of its stats short of making it ridiculously overpowered could ever compensate for the opportunity costs of having a jetpack: the agility, the possibility to chase lifeforms, the capability of building and phasing as well as being versatile enough to react to threats or opportunities on other fronts.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited March 2014
See, i just feel that scenario is impractical and is not worth considering... as an Exo or a JPer i would not position myself so. I would remain outside the door, bottlenecking them. (A form of suppression that is frequently used, btw)
Who would enter an alien dominated hive room without massive support, arcing, or faking them??
And do you chase lifeforms as a JPer, when participating in the destruction of a base? (as an average, not an absolute) I almost never do, as I am in that room for something else, and typically its baiting / alien getting you away from teammates.
Also i guess we're going to have to just disagree about ammo.
I do not feel its negligible, and do not feel like a JP + LMG can match Dual Exos in either DPS, bottle necking (suppression) or Tres cost / Micro comm attention.
But this is with pub play in mind, not a 6 v 6.
It wasn't so much about nerfing JPs down to Exo levels so they are equally bad choices, but more along the lines of having advanced tech be a larger res investment, with more benefits (higher cost of reasearch, get both JP and Exo).
The only reason i mentioned bringing down JP power a bit is so they are not totally OP if there was a Mk II upgrade for them (faster movement and fuel regen?)
It was more like:
Mk I Prototypes:
- Current JP, with a slightly lower fuel regen rate
- Current Exo, with lateral thruesters (minigun and rail)
Mk II Prototypes:
- JP accelerates faster (same top speed) and regenerates fuel faster
- Bonus Exo armor and ability to equip a second gun (pref a rail and a minigun at the same time)
** Possibily welder/build tool (depending on balance and Dev resources)
Could be horrible, just theory crafting here.
=====
Lateral thrusters (imo) would be an AMAZING step to making Exos more powerful, without adjusting or adding anything else.
Especially if they did not get slowed down when firing. Mainly I would see the benefit as the ability to boost back away from a charging Onos, giving that 1-2 seconds more of firing that could mean killing it.
Also, having some minor capability to dodge Bile Bomb and get out of skulk swarms would justify the armor nerf.
At the very least, Exos should get the ability to boost in any direction.
I dont think we need to balance exo= jp. We need to give them diferent role. I like super efective idea about wall pentration alot, it will not make it pub OP lifeforms deathmachine, but it will make them usefull. And more than half of this forums are up for exo fist/welder idea. So posibilites are huge.
2 exos can fix them self, fix ,protect and suport ARCs in hive push.
One exo can fix teammates, and fight at same time.
Can fix and build structures ,while suport cover fire(meaning fix buildings and shot around edges- tankining). Now that is good tradeoff for price/utility
Not saying that JP needs to = Exo, but they should both be the best choice in their specific roles. (hit-and-run mobility vs brute force pushing)
If we do brute force way, it may be OP i large numbers and unfun to play against.
If we make it utility, it will ask for teamwork to be usefull, no ofence it is just imao
They used to be that way and weren't OP in large numbers, in fact, it was just the opposite.
They were unable to be beaconed, meaning the best way to kill them was to isolate them from their welders with a base rush, especially since they nerfed MAC repair rate, and if they were too many Exos, no one could be beaconed back for defense or repair the Exos, making them easy targets.
It made a great trade off between overwhelming offense and weak defense everywhere else. They were in a pretty good place then, and could have been made better.
I'd be happy with either, imo. The Exo as a Heavy Marine (building and welding, with lateral thrusters) is extremely appealing as well
Comments
I sort of like exos the way they are now with the exception of lower movement speed while firing, and beacon (why was it even added?). Lerks, fades and skulks have a good chance of taking an exo out and the alien team doesn't entirely have to rely on onoses to push back an attack
What if the research for JP and Exo were combined into one "Prototype Equipment" research, and the cost increased slightly
And then add an "Mk II Prototypes" research for dual Exos and possibly buffs to JPs? (nerf JPs a bit on first level research)
Removes the "Exos are just to expensive when I can research JPs" argument.
Granted, this does nothing about fixing Exos, just makes them appear more often (i think they're mostly fine, just need more utility and lateral thrusters)
You've played with the marine bot AI, right? I'm not sure you want to be giving them miniguns and railguns unless you're a fan of a SkyNet takeover...
''if you have 3-4 exos pushing your hive it's literally a wall of your bad gameplay , no res bite''
'' if you have 3-4 onos pushing your com it's literally a wall of death and hp''
'' if you have 3-4 exos/onos pushing your com/hive it's needs to be literally GG''
but is not cuz one gorge can slow, stop exos with good position, one marine cant do crap agains 3-4 onos , no mather what weapons he have .
Also, @Narfwak all bow before the might of our android overlords!
So this basically nerfs jet packs. We don't want exo suits to show up more often. We want them to be worth the investment, so that it will naturally be used more. Not a literal and proven "marine troll/lose for no reason button"
Not sure lateral boosters alone will be enough to sway it's usage, but I like where that thought is going.
NS1 gave the marine a choice to become tougher and immune to spores via heavy armor or very fast and maneuverable via jet packs.
Both of which were straight upgrades from the base marine with different ways to execute.
In NS2 a marine getting an exo suit means he sacrifices critical utility and speed for infinite ammo and a slight HP and damage increase. Sounds like a step back and to the side.
I'd like to see the exo be a real strategic tank piece and be able to spearhead an assault much like an onos. Perhaps give him some abilities to absorb or reduce incoming damage for a few moments? Like a Bubble shield to protect nearby teammates? Or just a personal nano shield?
The Onos got this in the form of bone shield, maybe exo suits counterpart has a duration and allows movement (maybe also shoot?).
Because the Onos bone shield can be activated without cool down, but sacrifices movement. The exo shield drains from the "weapon energy" to generate the shield for a few seconds. You can shoot, but you'll overload the weapons and be on a long cool down. Or you can not shoot and use it longer allowing the Exo to escape, albeit slow and without retaliation.
Might help both make it less squishy even for a moment to make it useful. Think of TF2 Medic + Heavy with the heal gun shield. It breaks up stalemate and make the game a bit more fluid.
Not sure why you're bringing up res biting, this is not a discussion on how to prevent exos.
Played a game yesterday where aliens had 6 onoses and we marines managed to take the third hive in just the right time and after 20 minutes win so I wish what you're saying were true which it is sadly not
Ohhhh man, if the exo could then be commanded to build something while you cover it... That'd be so damn cool.
I think having the guns active without a marine in the cockpit seems highly unsafe, what if they recognise a teammate as an alien? Definite safety feature needed there if it were to be implemented
After you've tinkered with those values, what would the new exos role actually be? You're suggested "mobile turret/suppression" role is still outperformed by the jetpack. You'd need to increase the combat values of the exo so immensely to make up for the lack of in-combat mobility that you'd create something that I was advocating against: not a strategic choice of arsenal but a superior choice for every encounter.
The role of base destruction, however, is one that the exo fills the worst; if you're able to invade inside the alien base without getting overrun, jetpacks are the better choice as they can deliver roughly the same amount of dps but with more versatility and survivability, and if you're not able to invade the alien base without getting overrun you wouldn't with exos either. The absolutely weakest position for an exo is pushing inside a defended alien base, having a constant barrage of skulks at your ankles, bile at your battle screen and spikes coming in from every direction. If you aren't able to push inside an alien base, you do not go for exos, you got for ARCs or attack on a different front.
Role of exo is (needs to be) end game tech. So what is enf game for marines .
Not dead aliens, but dead hive . So it is that simple !!!
Get hem this :
The Railgun's advantage is that it can pierce targets, and can deal double structural damage. So we should let it shoot through walls.
To ensure that it doesn't become an OP snipe-tank, if the shot travels through a wall, it loses it’s player-damage.''
And welder to build, repair and protect ARCs !
As if people didn't whinge enough that arcs can deal AOE damage through walls, you want exos to have an aimed hitscan wall-penning attack?
It COULD work.
I'm not going to discredit the idea just because it leaves a horrible uncomfortable taste in my mouth. But i would hope for more elegant solutions to top it
Sounds like riveting gameplay :P
Diference like pres and res strategy
Not really as Exos are just as expensive (if not more) for the team to invest in as you have to use a ton of tres to get the proto lab then the exo upgrade to then have you team dropping 40+ pres so they can do a job which ARCs already do perfectly. Exos would have to be OP as hell to ever make that investment more worthwhile over ARCs.
how about giving exos something like a siege mode, where they have about 20% (or any other number that fits) more armor and their weapons don't overheat that fast. they would also give ammo to players nearby (same system as armory without health and buyable weapons). Of course they could not move while being in seige mode. It would serve as a forward base with a marine shooting the mounted guns. if thats not OP than they have a use (especially when protecting ARCs)
This exo will be able to kill lifeforms to u know
The jetpack is neither a "mobile turret" - as the player has a finite amount of ammo that when extinguished costs tres to replenish - nor is it "suppression" which would suggest laying down heavy concentrated fire for teammates from a safe and typically a relatively static position.
I also do not consider an Exo to be the worst at base destruction..? (granted, current values make it not good at anything lol)
You can walk over fields of eggs to instantly destroy them, essentially egg locking a hive in seconds. Dualies can melt upgrades faster than any JPer. If the room was filled with spikes, fades and the scenario you described, a JPer would be either a distraction or a quick meal anyhow.. much more so than the Exo which requires far more damage to kill. (and even more with those proposed values)
The values i suggested would more than likely make a slightly OP Exo, given the high amount of mobility in combat with the increased armor (which will be needed when entering bases as you pointed out)
But I really don't see the problem to this considering the options that are on the table to destroy them : Get the comm to beacon to isolate them and then zerg and/or BB.
This method has worked just fine in the past.
And it would not be a superior choice for every encounter... as you pointed out there are more mobile and versatile roles that it cannot fulfill. The exo would still benefit from a FT in the room too.
Basically, I think your perception of its role is influenced by the values that have been used, and that you might change your mind if you actually played a game with said values.
lass cannon designs are typically too high of a entry barrier for new players, as they are both frustrating and have a narrow timeframe to learn how to play, before dying.
And every new player will go straight for the Exo.. so i'd vote no to that proposal, personally
Ammo is completely negligible and "suppressive fire" is such incredibly situational that I wouldn't call it a role.
Pushing inside a hive room is not about how fast you can destroy everything there, it's how well you can hold your presence and force the alien team OUT. Whether it takes 5 seconds or 3 seconds to kill an upgrade does not matter even slightly. Jetpacks can chase wounded aliens out and establish a presence much faster than exos can.
About exos being harder to kill than jetpackers in a hive push, I must say you are completely wrong. An exo has more HP than a jetpacker, yes, but with every single attack landing a hit and both gorges and whip bile capable of dealing huge amounts of damage as well as no possibility for in-combat medpacks the exos are the first marine units to go down. Exos are the easiest units to kill in an alien-dominated engagement (albeit from normal marines which we shouldn't obviously consider here). If I was to attack an alien room against, say, one of each lifeform and a whip, I would go down in a matter of seconds without probably taking anything down with me. As a jetpacker the only things capable of hurting me is the lerk and the fade, and perhaps the skulk depending on the room. I could try to evade them, maybe even kill them, and possibly escape afterwards. Even more so if there are both jetpacks and exos doing a push, as the alien team concentrates the easy prey down first.
The only role I could see the exo even trying to fill is that of what you said first: a relatively static and formidable defending powerhouse. But no tweaking of its stats short of making it ridiculously overpowered could ever compensate for the opportunity costs of having a jetpack: the agility, the possibility to chase lifeforms, the capability of building and phasing as well as being versatile enough to react to threats or opportunities on other fronts.
Who would enter an alien dominated hive room without massive support, arcing, or faking them??
And do you chase lifeforms as a JPer, when participating in the destruction of a base? (as an average, not an absolute) I almost never do, as I am in that room for something else, and typically its baiting / alien getting you away from teammates.
Also i guess we're going to have to just disagree about ammo.
I do not feel its negligible, and do not feel like a JP + LMG can match Dual Exos in either DPS, bottle necking (suppression) or Tres cost / Micro comm attention.
But this is with pub play in mind, not a 6 v 6.
It wasn't so much about nerfing JPs down to Exo levels so they are equally bad choices, but more along the lines of having advanced tech be a larger res investment, with more benefits (higher cost of reasearch, get both JP and Exo).
The only reason i mentioned bringing down JP power a bit is so they are not totally OP if there was a Mk II upgrade for them (faster movement and fuel regen?)
It was more like:
Mk I Prototypes:
- Current JP, with a slightly lower fuel regen rate
- Current Exo, with lateral thruesters (minigun and rail)
Mk II Prototypes:
- JP accelerates faster (same top speed) and regenerates fuel faster
- Bonus Exo armor and ability to equip a second gun (pref a rail and a minigun at the same time)
** Possibily welder/build tool (depending on balance and Dev resources)
Could be horrible, just theory crafting here.
=====
Lateral thrusters (imo) would be an AMAZING step to making Exos more powerful, without adjusting or adding anything else.
Especially if they did not get slowed down when firing. Mainly I would see the benefit as the ability to boost back away from a charging Onos, giving that 1-2 seconds more of firing that could mean killing it.
Also, having some minor capability to dodge Bile Bomb and get out of skulk swarms would justify the armor nerf.
At the very least, Exos should get the ability to boost in any direction.
2 exos can fix them self, fix ,protect and suport ARCs in hive push.
One exo can fix teammates, and fight at same time.
Can fix and build structures ,while suport cover fire(meaning fix buildings and shot around edges- tankining). Now that is good tradeoff for price/utility
If we do brute force way, it may be OP i large numbers and unfun to play against.
If we make it utility, it will ask for teamwork to be usefull, no ofence it is just imao
They were unable to be beaconed, meaning the best way to kill them was to isolate them from their welders with a base rush, especially since they nerfed MAC repair rate, and if they were too many Exos, no one could be beaconed back for defense or repair the Exos, making them easy targets.
It made a great trade off between overwhelming offense and weak defense everywhere else. They were in a pretty good place then, and could have been made better.
I'd be happy with either, imo. The Exo as a Heavy Marine (building and welding, with lateral thrusters) is extremely appealing as well