Close spawns

philoglphilogl Join Date: 2012-10-24 Member: 163529Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver
This hasn't been brought up for a while, but it is widely acknowledged that close spawns is not balanced and is not fun to play for either team in public games. Competitive matches have forced cross-spawns for so long that I guess people stopped complaining about it. It seems like such an easy thing to fix that would drastically affect the way UWE measures their balance statistics. Is there any reason this couldn't be quickly introduced for the official maps?


  • philoglphilogl Join Date: 2012-10-24 Member: 163529Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver
    edited February 2014
    Well I guess that's OK then. I got what I paid for.

    Edit: Wait, is that a direct quote from the website? Bad English and all? May as well remove that while they are at it, kill 2 birds with 1 stone :D
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    philogl wrote: »
    Is there any reason this couldn't be quickly introduced for the official maps?
    Dear Philogl,
    Yes there is a reason. Not enough community momentum, interest, or awareness to spark action counter to the developers interests.

    Just another ns2 mechanic that you shouldn't ever expect to change because it's bypassed where it matters, so there's never any spotlighting effect.
  • philoglphilogl Join Date: 2012-10-24 Member: 163529Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver
    edited February 2014
    Oh OK. I'm genuinely interested in the disagree @MuckyMcFly . I honestly thought this would be one of the few things everyone agreed on. Could you please elaborate because I cannot think of a single good thing about close spawns.
  • MouseMouse The Lighter Side of Pessimism Join Date: 2002-03-02 Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I don't mind it too much in pub games. It adds some variety and I don't feel that its unbalanced per se, it just requires different play.
    Definitely don't want to see it in competitive games.
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yeah sorry was going to reply but got distracted.

    I enjoy that intense area of action when there are close spawns, makes it exciting and opens up new tactics for taking ground elsewhere. Had some zero upgrade arc rush games that failed and the claw back was brilliant. How do you feel about fixed marine starts like the ever so moaned about NS2_Veil when aliens start in Sub?

    Ive not played competitive so can't comment on that, but anything that mixes up the dynamic I enjoy. I'd love to see eclipse with mixed spawns...*insert evil laugh. ;)
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    I think everything that leads to even more repetitive rounds is bad. And in balanced public close spawn rounds I normaly see this: both teams kick each other in the nuts at the nearest RT until they decide it is a waste of time and they start fighting over the rest of the map. Then things go wrong and someone remembers that you could rush the enemy base around the corner again ;) If you don't forget about that threat, you are fine and if you remember faster to attack the close spawn then you have an opportunity.
    Close spawns lead only to frustrating rounds if one side (most likely the one with ranged weapons) aims that good that the aliens have no chance. But I don't see that happen very often. And if it happens people force teams and settle things. There is no reason IMO to force cross-spawns for everyone. There are also mods that enables you to enable cross-spawns on your server. Where is the problem?
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    I don't really care, the only thing I've seen come from cross-spawns only (HBZ servers in EU have this) is that it's easier to expand in start as khammander, because you know you can cyst to the nearest harvesters and not have either swarmed by marines 2 sec later.

    Other than that, I've never felt much desire for x-spawns. Or the lack of them. *shrugs*
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    To be fair the only map I'd adjust is docking; removing alien spawn in locker if marines spawn in cafe.

    Also adjustment the spawn in biodome, it feels like aliens spawn at a 80% rate in platform.
  • ZainyZainy Join Date: 2007-03-30 Member: 60525Members
    Close spawns aren't as imbalanced as people say, and it actually increases the game's intensity.

    I find them extremely fun, in fact I think they should removed locked spawns completely and make start spawns utterly random.

    Keep comp balance in comp games only, if you only want to play 3-4 league approved maps with crosspawns there are servers that do this, please don't make the game less interesting for everyone else.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Every pub game I'm had with close spawns has been a total stomp one way or the other. Usually 2 good marines hold down the harvester position on the opposite side of alien spawn from where marines started, and it's up to the rest of the pub marines to work out whether they want to win the game by holding the other side of alien spawn on marine spawn side, or lose by milling off in random directions because they have no clue how this game works.

    I could quite happily lose close spawns, specifically on summit and biodome (despite its size, it's very easy to get to agri or filtration). It's still a problem, but not quite so severe on descent.

    The 'working out which start they have' thing still applies on tram, jambi, veil, eclipse... and that's fine. But data core + sub/atrium is just a horrible horrible game in the making, likewise with hydroponics or platform starts on biodome.
  • bonagebonage Join Date: 2012-10-13 Member: 162230Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I agree with roo, definately summit and biodome that are the biggest offenders of horrible close spawn games. I have seen plenty of pub players complain about how unfair and unfun close spawn games are - so the notion that its limited to comp players is silly.

    I would rather people have less variety of spawns on 2 maps (biodome summit) than playing games which may ultimately turn them off the game completely. Player retention trumps very small gameplay elements that are only fun for a minority.

  • nezznezz Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174712Members
    edited February 2014
    +1 to agree, close spawns on any map is retarded. Even worse if there are 1-2 competent marines.
  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    In all honestly, I don't really care about close spawns in pubs since large player count servers are imbalanced as hell anyway. I do see the upside of enforcing cross spawns in pubs though. We could obtain more accurate data on alien/marine W/L ratios. Maybe I am biased.

  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited February 2014
    Docking isn't the only one. Take Summit as an example. If Marines spawn Flight and Aliens spawn Sub, Comp Lab and Maintenance Access have long hallways that make it too easy for Marines to pick off skulks. Leading to as OP said, a stomp fest. Pretty sure Joshhhy and I played a game yesterday on Summit where we held just outside Sub and locked them out from the entire left side all game and led to the Alien team F4ing.
  • Brad2810Brad2810 Join Date: 2013-03-24 Member: 184313Members
    also if you have a team of rookies on a close spawn, good luck trying to get them to go somewhere other than suicideing into the alien hive over and over :D
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2014
    Brad2810 wrote: »
    also if you have a team of rookies on a close spawn, good luck trying to get them to go somewhere other than suicideing into the alien hive over and over :D
    Reminds me of a clog wall outside main base with hydra's, 2 Georges and crag+shift central. It's like a shiny bright light, I hear shooty stuff there, must go and also shoot stuff there, oh wait I died :P
  • Cee Colon SlashCee Colon Slash Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152581Members
    Spoiler: as marines, dropping a medpack on a hive location will reveal whether or not there's a hive there.
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