When did the noob GL spam start...

maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
I was off for the holidays, and i come back to this massive GL spam-fest... In the past 3 days 2 things have been constant. 1st no one will alien com. 2nd, when the first fade goes up instead of seeing SG hit the field I see waves of GL's spamming everywhere. Now I lol'd at first at the sillyness but after taking a couple of random GL's to the face i realized that in the hands of a 6-35 a SG is worthless and they might as well fire blindly with something that does splash. Personally I dont blame them, but I cant stand the game play. Its completely skill-less and does not allow for the player to develop skill (aside from learning a bit of geometry)

To this end, I have mixed feelings about it. Is it a real problem? should it be fixed? if so how? When I use Gl its usually in combo with a JP, and another marine who are trying to snip a hive before they react. This structure attack feels like its intended goal. So the only thing i could see changing is its damage vs players being reduced.

I cant really think of any drastic problem from reducing GL damage to players... aside from not killing that gorge in his fort (but who would want that)...
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Comments

  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I am finding many marine sides of late to AA before SG (really really weird). I don't think its a new metagame change (more like newish comms I think). There is also a tendency for aliens to go hive before upgrades (legit - but assumes your team can hold territory when marines are getting w1a1 + mines). tbh, I think its just the influx of newer comms trying out things. I am also finding, marine comms building a full second base (on a hive location with 2 ips, armory etc... the works) instead of upgrades. Another tell tale sign is if they don't get nanoshield (don't know to click the cc to research this).
  • AfterhoursAfterhours Join Date: 2012-09-18 Member: 159869Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Gotta love those 10v10 servers.
  • IronsoulIronsoul Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members
    Here's the solution ( well, I'm sure people will disagree): make ammo cost res, and make grenades more expensive than say, shot.
  • CuelCuel Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181295Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    OP, do you think it's a problem ? Or are you just stating that many people are using it? Eventually people will learn to aim and see how better the SG is
    Afterhours wrote: »
    Gotta love those 10v10 servers.

    I play on those a lot and I've never seen GLs as a problem when playing alien / comming. I would see it as a problem if I were commanding marines
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    It's understandable. In a lot of other games GLs are OMGWTFBBQ good, so anyone starting out in NS2 likely would expect the same.
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
    always have loved JP go or JP flamethrower soloing hives... especially cargo. but no one will wanna nerf them in any way (like increase use of JP energy when carrying them, keep lmg the same or a little more)... I await the disagrees!
  • AfterhoursAfterhours Join Date: 2012-09-18 Member: 159869Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    @Cuel

    I definitely don't think its a problem. GL's can damage the user, so, point-blank explosions in the face usually mean the GL Marine is gonna die too from the blast.

    But, when you're entering a room as a Fade, and you run into 2-3 Marines with GL's, sometime you just find yourself dealing with 8-12 grenades suddenly popping around you. Hope you have some energy to about-face blink away!

  • AfterhoursAfterhours Join Date: 2012-09-18 Member: 159869Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2014
    RapGod wrote: »
    always have loved JP go or JP flamethrower soloing hives... especially cargo. but no one will wanna nerf them in any way (like increase use of JP energy when carrying them, keep lmg the same or a little more)... I await the disagrees!

    Not hard to deal with as a competent Lerk/Fade as you should have 1 or 2 of each by the time JP's hit the field. But yes, soloing Hives with silly puppies jumping all around you is cute. :3

    Love where JP's are right now. Thank God for adding the jump back in when wearing one...
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    I dont have a "big" problem with it. I do think it lends to boring game play. I would not call it OP because the skill ceiling is not an issue as skilled players arnt opting for GL over SG.

    But i do dislike how high the skill floor is.... GL has become the Noob cannon, and while sure its great that finally a noob rine might end my 43-2 fade, I cant stand the lack of skill required. once 3-4 GL's start spamming nothing short of an onos dare approach. While this is true of 3-4 decent SG's at least dieing to a SG I can respect the persons twitch.

    SO i dont know, I want to give the Greens a fighting chance, but spamming GL's is just annoying and leads to games of roulette.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    edited January 2014
    I am finding many marine sides of late to AA before SG (really really weird). I don't think its a new metagame change (more like newish comms I think). There is also a tendency for aliens to go hive before upgrades (legit - but assumes your team can hold territory when marines are getting w1a1 + mines). tbh, I think its just the influx of newer comms trying out things. I am also finding, marine comms building a full second base (on a hive location with 2 ips, armory etc... the works) instead of upgrades. Another tell tale sign is if they don't get nanoshield (don't know to click the cc to research this).

    Nanoshield is great but it's SOO expensive (both to research and use) that I wouldn't be getting it until late, probably after AA but maybe before jetpacks. I'm not exactly a great marine com though.

    I also like to rush hives myself (second and third, maybe even fourth if we get it) because I would rather make it that much more difficult for the marines to take (back) the room. That all depends on res flow though and I do get upgrades along the way, just not necessarily all of them at the first opportunity.

    As far as grenade spam... it bothers me that a grenade can pretty much end a lerk by chance and there's nothing the lerk can do about it. Shotguns you can keep your distance but a lucky grenade can hit you pretty damn far away before the lag interp even lets you know it's been fired. For other lifeforms (other than skulk which doesn't matter) it's not much of an issue.
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Probably bad luck. I haven't noticed excessive GL spam at all.

    You were around before the radius decrease though, right? Because today is nothing compared to what it used to be.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    HeatSurge wrote: »
    Probably bad luck. I haven't noticed excessive GL spam at all.

    You were around before the radius decrease though, right? Because today is nothing compared to what it used to be.

    For me it's less about the splash and more about the grenades that actually hit a target. With the improved trajectories they are a lot more effective at doing that. For me though the real problem is that by the time you see the grenade in the air it's already too late to dodge because of interp.

  • RockyMarcRockyMarc Join Date: 2009-11-24 Member: 69519Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Hand grenades into vents... *shivers*
    Think I've hit myself more times then actually get it inside the vent.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    not an issue, except it makes marines easier to defeat. I don't fear a grenade launcher like I do a shotgun or even an lmg. the delay between shots is horrendous and getting hit once by a grenade means the fade should skedaddle. leeks have very little to fear, especially with any vertical space.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2014
    Noob GL spamfest began right about when the GL was introduced in Beta and I've been carrying it on ever since :D

    However, when people learn to shoot, they upgrade to the shotgun, and then you'll wish they stayed with the GL spam. Your fade will kill me far more times than one of my lucky grenades, as I can't shoot with a shotgun :) If I could, your fade would be more concerned :)

    Game sense also shows if you are buying GL's, you don't really have any...
  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Not an issue, GL marines are easy prey.

    And it is actually good when there is one weapon in the game that noobs can use to have at least a bit of success. It keeps them playing. And than they will get better with the LMG and later with other weapons too.

    With the reduced splash radius it isn't as annoying as it was.

    I say, let them have those few easy kills. Even if they don't "earn them". You get enough kills anyway. And new players need some success to keep playing.
  • FreekerFreeker France Join Date: 2013-10-28 Member: 188858Members, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    maD_maX_ wrote: »
    In the past 3 days 2 things have been constant. 1st no one will alien com.
    Noticed that too. I find it more annoying than any GL-spam.
    But if you killed dozens of GL'ers before losing your 43-2 Fade to one lucky nade, i guess it's a good PRES trade :D
  • Maxx11_v2.0Maxx11_v2.0 Join Date: 2012-11-18 Member: 172221Members
    It only becomes an issue on large servers where you have 10+ marines coating the map with nadespam and mines.

    My solution. Turn on friendly fire and let the problem solve itself :)
  • duvelduvel Join Date: 2004-02-09 Member: 26318Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    GL is cheap, combined with JP, very effective, for only 30 res...

    have 5 of them flying around, it takes several lives to get one out of the air.
  • MrFangsMrFangs Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184474Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    RapGod wrote: »
    always have loved JP go or JP flamethrower soloing hives... especially cargo. but no one will wanna nerf them in any way (like increase use of JP energy when carrying them, keep lmg the same or a little more)... I await the disagrees!

    You may wanna rephrase your post so it is clear what agree/disagree actually means, then ;-) That JP hive soloing is awesome? Or that it should be nerfed?
  • MrFangsMrFangs Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184474Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2014
    "sotanaht wrote:
    As far as grenade spam... it bothers me that a grenade can pretty much end a lerk by chance and there's nothing the lerk can do about it. Shotguns you can keep your distance but a lucky grenade can hit you pretty damn far away before the lag interp even lets you know it's been fired. For other lifeforms (other than skulk which doesn't matter) it's not much of an issue.
    [...]
    For me it's less about the splash and more about the grenades that actually hit a target. With the improved trajectories they are a lot more effective at doing that. For me though the real problem is that by the time you see the grenade in the air it's already too late to dodge because of interp.

    100% agree with that. Getting killed as Lerk by a random(!) grenade to the face is just plain annoying. If someone manages to hit you with an *aimed* GL shot, that's fine, but that's quite rare compared to those lucky spam hits.

    What I also find annoying is the relatively low self-damage with GL shots. I don't know the numbers, but I've seen damaged marines kill me as Skulk with a point-blank grenade, and still survive the blast. IIRC, self-damage is a percentage of the normal damage, which I understand to avoid frustration from bouncing grenades. But in close combat, it gives really weird results.
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
    edited January 2014
    MrFangs wrote: »
    RapGod wrote: »
    always have loved JP go or JP flamethrower soloing hives... especially cargo. but no one will wanna nerf them in any way (like increase use of JP energy when carrying them, keep lmg the same or a little more)... I await the disagrees!

    You may wanna rephrase your post so it is clear what agree/disagree actually means, then ;-) That JP hive soloing is awesome? Or that it should be nerfed?

    lol I was sarcastic about loving it. I have no problem with the DMG to lifeforms, but a JP gl can decimate alien hives and upgrades, while keeping fades and lerks chasing u in a hive.. and rines can hit elsewhere. worst case I can think of is cargo on veil..

    basically, I wanted a nerf in some way. no alien has a real ''noob cannon'', and we already have mobile arcs... its like having flying arcs controlled by an individual marine... now the dislike
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    Laugh & let them all nade spam while your fades tear them apart? And when they complain kindly remind them the correct fade counter is shotgun? :D
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'm still for...
    Omega_K2 wrote: »
    Simply remove player dmg from grenades and make them anti-structure only. Problem solved.
    If you make them more visible it's still a problem, especially on any larger server you'll have people spamming GL down a hallway like crazy

    To balance it out it could be on an extra slot or so, so you can have both LMG/GL (but not shotty/GL - seems a bit OP :P) or cheaper to buy,

  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Next pub you are all in, monitor fl kills/strucure kills, then compare to gl kils/structure kills. Then ask yourself why the cheaper one is doin 10X more work. I think a price increase would help a lot w/ spam issue.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    There's no problem with marines carrying GL's, easy prey as someone said, but I have always felt that vs. lifeform the damage is a bit OP. Imho you should reduce damage against lifeform, but increase radius to compensate. (Yes I'm aware that this'll make it an even more spammy happy ezmode weapon, but I rather that than die from a funnily bouncing grenade as a full hp lerk.)
  • AfterhoursAfterhours Join Date: 2012-09-18 Member: 159869Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2014
    What made the GL mounted onto the LMG so bad?

    I'm on the fence on how specialized the GL is. You hardly ever see it in pro-games. And it's mostly due to the effective strength you lose vs. lifeforms for the increased damage output to structures, and area denial.

    Would an iteration of the GL being turned back into a mounted component to the LMG be viable with certain limitations? (see: balance)
    Such as the mount GL having 2 shots per clip instead of 4. 12 grenades instead of 28(?) Decreased movement speed for the Marine (mostly to remove agility for fights). Unlocked at the AA, same Res cost. I'd like to NOT touch the LMG itself, but limit the effectiveness over time of the double-weapon.

    The point is to still provide a tool for area-denial and base siegeing, without making the marine useful for JUST that.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    edited January 2014
    GL mounted LMG was awesome. Of course it was way too good.

    Hmm, just a 2 second idea for making GL more, err, "action", how about making the nades explode on impact on anything? That way you could use it to combat lifeforms extremely effectively but you'd also have to shoot exactly where you want it to explode?
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    Ah, but when you had the gl/lmg combo you had to sacrifice the rifle but stun... I miss smacking skulks off cliffs.
  • OnosFactoryOnosFactory New Zealand Join Date: 2008-07-16 Member: 64637Members
    I just think "A Marine, but worth more points, yum ... "
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