Will fades ever not be worthless? Ever?

PHJFPHJF Join Date: 2005-07-13 Member: 55898Members
I keep gambling 40 res on them thinking I'm going to get better or something.

I played NS1. I remember.
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Comments

  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited January 2014
    Ask the dudes who go 44-0 in a fifteen minute game as fade. Nexus is one ;) hehe, I almost never fade in pubs cuz I know I'm a paper fade. My res is much better spent for my team as a lerk or onos. When I wanna practice (dying) as fade, I hit up combat. Peep some of It's super effective's videos on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/Abysmalnight/
  • Know painKnow pain Join Date: 2012-09-04 Member: 157674Members
    Will fades ever be nerfed? They spend more time in the air then lerk’s do and in most cases their K/D resembles that of combat mode.
  • xtcmenxtcmen Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
    Just bait your teammates... that seems to always work well for me as fade ;)
  • shriikeshriike Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184461Members
    Fades serve the important role of eliminating jetpackers and denying recappers. Lerks cannot do this as effectively late game.
  • NeXuSNeXuS US Join Date: 2013-10-13 Member: 188681Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited January 2014
    My advice?

    -Watch your health and energy. Neglecting either of the two will cause your demise.

    -Don't fight a pack of Marines, especially Marines with shotguns. Instead wait for skulks, a lerk, or another fade to assist. #FadeTangoOP

    -Try moving erratically before engaging a target. Make him waste him ammunition and reload making it easier to kill him.

    -As Super said in his video, swipe once and blink upwards, and land behind the target Marine.

    -Know the best path of escape and be careful not to venture where Marines can pinch you.

    -Jump while swiping. You will have to look down to hit your target while in the air but it's harder to hit you while you're jumping.

    -Play on a combat server. Once you reach level 5, you can evolve to Fade. If you die, you can just re-evolve back to Fade over and over again. Great practice.


    I'm not a super awesome Fade. I feel I know enough to do well in pubs. I still need improvement in pugs or competition level. If any other Fade players want to add to the list, feel free.
  • HobocopHobocop Join Date: 2010-11-23 Member: 75226Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Know pain wrote: »
    Will fades ever be nerfed? They spend more time in the air then lerk’s do and in most cases their K/D resembles that of combat mode.

    They've been nerfed like....20 times since build 250 with maybe two actual buffs after their rework.

    Are you surprised that the lifeform designed with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing marines is good at it?
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Comp fades terrify me. I can fade in pubs but I'm nowhere near comp level. They don't need a blanket buff but if there's something that can help newbie fades while not really buffing high level fades, that would probably be a good idea. Most pub fades are just downright bad at it and could use a little help.
  • ColtColtColtColt Join Date: 2012-06-27 Member: 153707Members
    The only issue with fades right now is the nerfed structure damage. This hurts the lifeform tremendously as viable.

    The reason this was implemented was because before B250 you had the "Fadeball"; in every comp game, more or less, you had a timepoint (depending on alien RT count) when suddenly there would be 3-5 fades on the field and the game was over.

    Now, most teams only use 1-2 fades, (sometimes zero), rarely 3.

    The lifeform did receive a massive overhaul in 250, rendering it closer to a 'weaker' NS1 fade (thus your original post makes sense to me); but the lifeform is certainly still viable in competitive, and in pubs, it's still capable of stomping 80:0 in no time.

    The thing is, as a Fade, the game is more about knowledge and intuition about engagements than about 'skillz'; you need to know when you can commit and when you can't, when you're going to be pinched or flanked, and have very detailed knowledge of specific map benefits (room details, geometry, so on).


    Best of luck. If you want some fade tips and things, feel free to add me on Steam and i'll gladly show you some details.

    Two cents from a "Comp fade",



    -Colt (re., formerly DN, All-In).
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Know pain wrote: »
    Will fades ever be nerfed? They spend more time in the air then lerk’s do and in most cases their K/D resembles that of combat mode.

    I'm not sure if you're serious, but that's the entire point of the fade. All they do is kill marines, they are supposed to be good at it.

  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Fades need a health buff, that is all.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    That video from ISE is just sooo good.
    You do great work, and it benefits the retention rate and enjoyment for new players. :-bd
  • Infinity_XInfinity_X USA Join Date: 2013-12-17 Member: 190195Members
    That was also an informative video. Thanks for sharing. I think I'm going to practice my fade movement and attack tactics tonight with this knowledge.
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Comp fades terrify me. I can fade in pubs but I'm nowhere near comp level. They don't need a blanket buff but if there's something that can help newbie fades while not really buffing high level fades, that would probably be a good idea. Most pub fades are just downright bad at it and could use a little help.

    I seem to recall this was always the issue with the design of the fade. In the right hands it's been a terrifying powerhouse, racking up dozens of kills in short order. But in the hands of a new player, it seems hilariously bad and weak.

    Honestly I have no idea how to make it more noob friendly while at the same time not making it severely overpowered with the already pro players.

  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think your frustrations are coming mainly from not knowing how to utilize the Fade to the best of its potential. In the right hands Fades can be really deadly. I do think they are a bit too difficult to use for newer players and too difficult to learn considering how once lost they cannot be re-purchased.
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
    There was a thread a while back on people giving advice on 'how to fade' @ ausns2.org forums

    http://ausns2.org/showthread.php?772-Learning-how-to-NS2-Merged-Threads&highlight=fade

    I'll quote some of it.
    mf- wrote:
    Okay... very rough pointers.

    Movement

    Energy conservation is the key to playing fade. You need to have 100% swipe accuracy while maintaining movement speed and not stopping. Constantly being aware that an extra swipe might remove your ability to blink away...

    - Try and hit them without stopping. This means blink + bhop just to the left/right of their player model, turning your aim to point at them as you drift pass and hitting them midair. This allows you to conserve momentum which reduces your energy requirements for engagements
    - Blinking in the air and down again is very costly. If you added the energy costs, you probably only have enough for blink in + swipe + blink up + blink down + 1 swipe. You would be borderline zero energy, thats assuming you engaged on 100% energy to start with which rarely happens.

    Combat Engagement
    - I play a sneaky fade, it's the only way to get a double slash without being nailed. This means only engaging from side / behind or when marines hit E on res towers.
    - 2 Swipes = death against 2 shotguns
    - 1 swipe + blink out. If you still have 50% armour left, its safe for another swipe
    - Do not engage for no reason. Killing shotgun marines on a phase gate without any chance of grinding the gate only puts your fade at risk. Don't fucking do it.

    Upgrades
    - Adrenaline : I've never needed it, I've only ever been caught out maybe 4-5 times in total in about 3 months of scrims with no energy. This mostly comes down to me being greedy and not waiting for adren bar to regen during down time
    - Celerity: Celerity > all other upgrades for fade
    - Scent of Fear: Obvious
    - Cara: I don't like cara, heal rate is 50% slower which is fucking anooying and really cripples field gorge
    - Regen: Don't really notice it, but cara is shit so I pick this instead
    Jekt wrote:
    I don't even think it's the mechanical side of the new fade people have trouble with. I mess up on my energy and overcommit on strong aimers more often than I'd like, but besides that you just need to always be thinking if what you're actually doing is having any impact on the game.

    mf summed it up nicely, if you're a solo fade. Your only job is to kill solo recappers. And you're probably doing that with a skulk or are protecting one from dying in the process so they can get any RT down if required. Just get picks and scout where you can. If they send multiple to build because of you - less marines pressuring or camping pg.

    Problem I see is people going for kills on camping shotguns when the marines are turtling phase gates. It doesn't even matter if you get the kill unless the rest of your team can get some other frags at the same time and get a push out of it. You can't engage groups by yourself anymore, best you'll do is get a sneaky pick on a pressure player assuming slow meds.

    Should also practice swiping without losing momentum. You can get away with strafe swiping (walker fade) in a marines face early on, but it becomes too risky to get any kills or medigate dmg done to you against ups, sgs and nano. You can do some pretty huge sweeping movements with the fade momentum and you want to be drive by swiping in group fights / against multiple marines.

    tl;dr: deny recap with fade. scout for an opportunity for the rest of your team. dont risk yourself on useless kills.

    And don't practice using vortex, swipe or shadow step. You'll never get to use them in any scrim. And they're pretty shit
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation
    @male_fatalities, just imagine if you could play with that ping ALL THE TIME!

    +1 for killing Jekt in that vid, even tho i've already seen it before. Let's see if you've uploaded new material..
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    I miss OP shadowstep fade. It's probably for the best that it got changed, but fuck, it was so. much. fun.
    I miss it too. I don't play the new fade, not because it is bad, but because it is no fun.
  • OtsOts Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18577Members, Constellation
    edited January 2014
    It's fun to the point when you don't die and you kill everyone. But then you realise, games end by killing structures and you're like "COME ON GUYS DO SOMETHING".

    Thus, i rather lerk!
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Members, Constellation
    Never enjoyed shadow step, but I played NS1 so it always anooyed me and I never had a fresh face playing it.
  • joohoo_n3djoohoo_n3d Join Date: 2012-10-30 Member: 164703Members, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter
    i miss the original blink :(
  • It's Super Effective!It's Super Effective! Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That video from ISE is just sooo good.
    You do great work, and it benefits the retention rate and enjoyment for new players. :-bd

    The commanding ones I'm working on are a doozy, hopefully it will be just as ...super effective.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    Looking at that video..
    MF
    YOU ARE A LUCKY SON OF A....
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    beq can you heal me? 30 hp fade begging for his life :D

    Great fading there, your hit accuracy was outstanding. I imagine that video will be a revelation to many would-be fades!
  • Ren26Ren26 Join Date: 2013-06-30 Member: 185811Members
    IronHorse wrote: »
    That video from ISE is just sooo good.
    You do great work, and it benefits the retention rate and enjoyment for new players. :-bd

    The commanding ones I'm working on are a doozy, hopefully it will be just as ...super effective.

    Sounds great, let me know if you want a pair of eyes to review objectively!
  • SebSeb Melbourne, AU Join Date: 2013-04-01 Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
    Roobubba wrote: »

    Great fading there, your hit accuracy was outstanding.

    Pretty much mf in a nutshell right there... lol
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    It's funny how as soon as you go a different life form, you easily forget basic accuracy things like 'dont hold mouse1' ... After watching MF's vid I realise I do that when I'm fade quite a bit but I have no idea why, considering I dont as a skulk. Gonna have to pay attention to that this evening :)
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