Which server should i choose from? Xeon or desktop CPU?

RysskRyssk Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175441Members Posts: 97 Advanced user
Hi, was thinking of buying a new server, but the thing is, i dont know which one i should choose from to run NS2 dedicated.

I've been looking on a Lenovo solution called Lenovo ThinkServer TS130 1105 - Xeon E3-1245V2 3.4 GHz, there is also one alternative with 1240V2 CPU, but what i've seen its just 7 watt less in load.

I know that you are supposed to run them at about 4.2ghz with an I7, but how's it with Xeon? I mean shouldnt the Single-Thread be better on a Xeon CPU than a I7-2600K?

The Lenovo solution will cost me about 550euro with storage and Memory.

Or should i just build a "desktop" computer with I7-4770K? But the thing is, more power draining, pain in the ass without ECC, bad controller for RAID and so on...

So for those who've been running a server, what's your thoughts?

The amount of players will be at 16 slot. Nothing else





Comments

  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    For 16 slots getting a recent-gen high-end intel cpu with clock speeds ~3.5GHz will be enough. No need to OC.

    That being said, a 4770k is somewhat faster then a E3-1245. The 1240 is even sightly better according to the benchs.
    http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html (more important)
    http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

    I think all of those should run 16 slots. The 4770k can run even 18 for sure.
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
    GhoulofGSG9
  • DarkLaunch357DarkLaunch357 Campinas, Brazil Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187599Members Posts: 77 Fully active user
    edited December 2013
    Execution speed-wise these are identical processors, even their turbo speed is exactly the same. Xeon E3 series processors are Sandy Bridge-DT/Ivy Bridge-DT (E3 V2)/Haswell-DT (E3 V3) CPUs and they are all exactly identical to their Core i7-2600K/i7-3770K/i7-4770K counterparts. They will even work on high end consumer motherboards all the same, ECC disabled as Z68/Z77/Z87 are unable to run ECC.

    The differences between the Xeon processor line and the i7 processors is in the instruction set support. A CPU like the Core i7-4771 is completely pointless when its Xeon-branded equivalent is priced exactly the same; with the server instructions and ECC support to boot.

    Xeon E3-XXX5 CPUs include the integrated HD Graphics 3000, 4000 or 4600 iGPU, the Xeon E3-XXX0 processors do not have a functional integrated graphics processor and will consume less power by themselves; but they will require a dedicated graphics card to be present on your workstation. Much like the i7-4771 and other regular non-K CPUs, these workstation processors also have their multiplier locked, so in order to overclock your choice would be a Core i7-4770K processor.

    http://ark.intel.com/products/75123/Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

    http://ark.intel.com/products/77656/Intel-Core-i7-4771-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

    http://ark.intel.com/products/75464/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1275-v3-8M-Cache-3_50-GHz

    So you can read these and see, the only thing that these processors will differ on is their memory support and specific security instructions that are not of any concern if this will be purely a gaming server, so your choice should pretty much boil down to what you can get cheaper than this, or go 4770K if you wish to overclock. Have fun ;)

    Should add, Sandy Bridge running at 5 GHz will be roughly identical Ivy Bridge running at 4.5 and Haswell at 4.2, so if your particular application (in this case, NS2 server recommends 4.2 2500K; a 3.2 GHz Haswell-DT with 8MB L3 (2500K has 6 MB) will handle the same workload just as easily.)
  • RysskRyssk Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175441Members Posts: 97 Advanced user
    Thank you for the replys, the only thing, even if the 1240 has better performance, and what i can see between the 1240 and 1245 there isnt that big of a difference. But the price? Well, there is 2 options of the CPU's. But price difference of over 200 euro.

    It's just that i will use later on the server for something else, a storage solution with Raid 5 or 10. Right now i've got a HP N40L for that, but i feel that i need the performance of crypt my files.

    But i should be able to run with the Lenovo solution together with a Xeon 1245? As i told, 16 players slot running the NSL mod and NSL maps and Custom Hud.

    It's just that the solution for a 4770K would be much more expensive than the OEM from Lenovo.

    Or i could just get the 4770K for my main, and use my old I7-2600K as the server, but i dont think the GF will approve that xD
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    Ryssk wrote: »
    But i should be able to run with the Lenovo solution together with a Xeon 1245? As i told, 16 players slot running the NSL mod and NSL maps and Custom Hud.

    See the benchmark list above. If you're getting v2 it's about ~10% slower or so, but you should still be able to run 16 slots. Especially with the NSL maps, they have reduced entcount and run better on the server as well.

    I do have a 4770k and it runs 18 slots perfectly fine, assuming the performance issues in B261 get fixed, it was able to run 22 slots before.

    I would not recommend OC though if you're running other stuff off the server. OC has issues people tend to talk down because they have no idea. Unless you don't mind the instability and possible data corruption of course, but then you definetetly don't need ECC in the first place.
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
  • RysskRyssk Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175441Members Posts: 97 Advanced user
    I think i'll go for the Lenovo solution with the 1245 CPU, and just run the "boost" OC, nothing else.

    Btw, how much MEM does NS2 use? 4gb should be enough?
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    Ryssk wrote: »
    I think i'll go for the Lenovo solution with the 1245 CPU, and just run the "boost" OC, nothing else.

    Btw, how much MEM does NS2 use? 4gb should be enough?

    I'd get at least 8GB.

    NS2 uses around 700MB when started, but it memory-leaks, so it goes up to like 1.5-1.8GB before it crashes. I also suggest daily restarts to keep memory usage down.

    If you're eventually going to run then more then 1 server, which you might do with a CPU that can handle that easily, you'll be running into memory problems quickly.

    Also if you're specifically building a machine, I'd also suggest an SSD to ensure you don't have any loading problems.


    Might also consider simply building the machine your self instead of going with a brand thing. It doesn't look like it's any specific rack case, so you can just buy a cheap customer case and slap some fans into it and the according hardware.
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
  • RysskRyssk Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175441Members Posts: 97 Advanced user
    Gonna build myself a Xeon 1240V3 rig then! And a 4770K rig to see just the difference in prices! The only "bad" thing is, if im gonna build myself a 4770K rig, im gonna propably use it for my personal gaming comp, and the old 2600K as server.
  • DarkLaunch357DarkLaunch357 Campinas, Brazil Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187599Members Posts: 77 Fully active user
    Like i told you before, the difference between the CPUs ending in 0 and 5 are only that they have or don't have integrated graphics, and the rest of the difference between the i7-4770K, i7-4771 and E3 127X CPUs is in security instruction support, they are precisely just as fast :)

    The i7-4770 (non K) should be identical to the Xeon E3-124X CPUs in performance as well, or just 100 MHz shy of those other three processors. I very much doubt 100 MHz will make that big a difference, so really, just build the cheapest one you can in this case bro.
  • RysskRyssk Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175441Members Posts: 97 Advanced user
    Well, the problem is right now... i've built soo many home-made computers, but never servers.. Especially for example, what kind of motherboard should i use for a Xeon E3-1240V3 (socket 1150) or the V2 (socket 1155) ? Cause if i take like an cheap MSI that supports the CPU, then i'll get a shit marvel controllercard like Marvell or something like that...

    God... never even struck me that it could be a pain in the ass to build a home built server haha xD

  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    Well, for a server go for components that are generally considered stable and have a long lifespan.

    Don't forget it will be running 24/7 and some parts might simply not be build for that kind of stress; especailly the cheaper consumer-grade motherboards; getting a decent one with good capacitiors and quality parts is worth it. Nothing is more annoying to have your motherboard die because the capcitors die quickly or are badly soldered to the motherboard. Or if you get one with cheapass controllers that outright suck; though the onboard ethernet is usually good enough; though additional controllers might be bad (like if you have extra SATA3 controllers or so (if you need that at all)).

    Same with the PSU, get a high quality one; bad PSU gonna fry early, and probably takes some parts down as well.

    Make sure to get proper cooling too, if you're housing you can ignore noise levels pretty much.


    If you want to go for more high quality parts you can also go for a pure server setup, but it's gonna more expensive then customer-grade parts and imho isn't really necessary unless you *really* need things like ECC.
    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
  • DarkLaunch357DarkLaunch357 Campinas, Brazil Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187599Members Posts: 77 Fully active user
    Ryssk wrote: »
    Well, the problem is right now... i've built soo many home-made computers, but never servers.. Especially for example, what kind of motherboard should i use for a Xeon E3-1240V3 (socket 1150) or the V2 (socket 1155) ? Cause if i take like an cheap MSI that supports the CPU, then i'll get a shit marvel controllercard like Marvell or something like that...

    God... never even struck me that it could be a pain in the ass to build a home built server haha xD

    Haha you're just making a big deal out of it mane. Xeon E3 CPUs are just Xeon-branded Core i5/i7 processors. They'll work just fine with virtually all motherboards, it's just that when paired with a certain chipset it will support error-correcting memory :)

    If anything just look the supported list of processors for the motherboard you may want to buy, pretty much ALL ASUS and Gigabyte Z87 motherboards will work with Xeon E3 CPUs.

    What Omega says about the power supply is true though, getting a high quality supply is very critical. Other than that a reinforced Z87 board like the Sabertooth (that I own and love) will be more than capable of heavy duty 24/7 usage :P
  • amckernamckern Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14249Members, Constellation Posts: 971 Advanced user
    edited January 2014
    For those in Australia, some of our biggest NS2 servers have been desktop hardware - Monash uses:

    $139Fractal Design Define R3 Black
    $113TX650
    $218i5 2500K
    $186Asus P8Z68-V
    $69
    8G Kit 1866 G.Skill Ripjaws
    $89noctua D14
    No hard drive
    No video card

    My own server is an empty Dell PE 2650 case, and becuase i have had quite a bit of experience with M-ITX Builds, I used trusted hardware

    Silverstone ST45SF 450W SFX
    Intel Core i5 3470
    G.Skill F3-10600CL9D-4GBNT 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3
    Western Digital WD Blue 500GB WD5000AAKX
    ASRock B75M-ITX Motherboard

    If your looking at a high throughput (even 10/100) if not GB, the ASRock has good check-sum offload, so the north bridge takes some of the strain from the CPU with network packets

    Assign each server thread to a core via task manager, and enable real time on that core - i followed the advice on the valve dedicated server page about running WMP as a high resolution timer, but don't think its helping very much.
    No Frils!
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