Your solution is going to solve one minuscule problem but introduce a plethora of others. It's entirely reasonable and likely that a marine commander would at some point want to ARC a room adjacent to a tech point, but your solution would make this impossible. Afterwards we would have threads just as ridiculous as this demanding that the aliens shouldnt be allowed to build in nearby rooms if the marines have a CC there because there would be no counter.
Your way of presenting your point is ridiculous. Stop reducing the 'problem' and the opinions of others into idiotic strawmen and maybe you'd get somewhere. Nobody saying 'screw the rookies'. It's all in your head. Stop throwing a tantrum when people disagree with you.
You understand that peak means concurrent players, do you really think all the new players are playing at the same time? Honestly don't know understand where this rookie stomping thing comes from in regards to arcs being deployable near chair. Sounds like you just don't wanna admit that your idea is bad, and now that you realize it, you're digging for more reasons and trying to justify your own negative attitude. Like I said before, I've commed and been in games like this many many times, and more often than not, it's the opposite of what you're saying you encounter. It's that the marines won't concede, the pro fades are farming and not organizing bile, just racking up kills, and everyone is lone-wolfing it. Rookies and vet both can be prone to doing this, your rookie stomp idea has nothing to do with what you were first talking about. Again, how does poor team-play equate to screw rookies? If you were comm, shouldn't you have organised said rookies better if you're sooooo concerned about retaining them?
Additionally, it's pretty funny you want a refund on your donation becausE one little bad idea was ill recepted. Nobody wants you to stop playing, nobody wants you to purposely pub stomp. Just wait for greens to improve, and focus on interactive and effective team-play while they do.
Your solution is going to solve one minuscule problem but introduce a plethora of others. It's entirely reasonable and likely that a marine commander would at some point want to ARC a room adjacent to a tech point, but your solution would make this impossible. Afterwards we would have threads just as ridiculous as this demanding that the aliens shouldnt be allowed to build in nearby rooms if the marines have a CC there because there would be no counter.
*insert facepalm pic here*
No, it wouldn't. You should actually start reading my and other's posts before commenting on them.
Your way of presenting your point is ridiculous. Stop reducing the 'problem' and the opinions of others into idiotic strawmen and maybe you'd get somewhere. Nobody saying 'screw the rookies'. It's all in your head. Stop throwing a tantrum when people disagree with you.
The replies, such as yours, are ridiculous.
Telling bloody rookies that they have to play with more skill (effectively: they mustn't be bloody rookies) means exactly that: screw the rookies.
The ns2 player numbers disagree with you. Besides some fans and elitist ns1 players not many stick with this game. Yeah, thousands have tried it .. and stopped playing because all they felt was being screwed over.
You understand that peak means concurrent players, do you really think all the new players are playing at the same time?
No, that's why the numbers are averaged over hours, days, weeks ... If the numbers drop then either less people are playing, or people are playing much less.
It should be obvious that there's a high chance of new players leaving the game again after trying it out. The veterans probably have very constant average play times, so if the numbers drop to the old low then where are the new players?
Honestly don't know understand where this rookie stomping thing comes from in regards to arcs being deployable near chair. Sounds like you just don't wanna admit that your idea is bad, and now that you realize it, you're digging for more reasons and trying to justify your own negative attitude.
My idea is brilliant! Also, I've long changed from "not being able to deploy near CC". Like the guy above: read...
Screw the rookies comes from the attitude to not make it easier for bloody rookies to make ending games easier, to give them a gratifying ending after sometimes over 1 hour of "hard work".
Like I said before, I've commed and been in games like this many many times, and more often than not, it's the opposite of what you're saying you encounter. It's that the marines won't concede, the pro fades are farming and not organizing bile, just racking up kills, and everyone is lone-wolfing it. Rookies and vet both can be prone to doing this, your rookie stomp idea has nothing to do with what you were first talking about. Again, how does poor team-play equate to screw rookies? If you were comm, shouldn't you have organised said rookies better if you're sooooo concerned about retaining them?
Sure it has. Stack a team, stomp the enemies. Makes rounds quick and painless. That the other team usually consists of rookies is just collateral damage if you will.
I've tried organizing the rookies. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. When it didn't it used up more time than multiple games where it did.
That plus the frustrating situation of griefing marines with ARCs in base and your comments is what convinced me to screw and just stomp the rookies.
Additionally, it's pretty funny you want a refund on your donation becausE one little bad idea was ill recepted. Nobody wants you to stop playing, nobody wants you to purposely pub stomp. Just wait for greens to improve, and focus on interactive and effective team-play while they do.
It's not the reactions to my suggestion but the whole community that really started to disgust me.
What greens? They will be gone soon! See ya stackin'.
PS: Any mods around to close this thread, before more people that cannot read turn up?
*insert facepalm pic here*
No, it wouldn't. You should actually start reading my and other's posts before commenting on them.
I admit I missed the last line of your original post. Doesn't make the idea any less horrible though. ARCs aren't a hard counter for contamination, as many people have stated in this thread. There are ways to deal with them. What you want is a 100% success rate end-game tech with no counters when the aliens have 3 hives. While I do agree that at that point the game should be hugely in favour of the aliens, making contamination un-counterable would make little sense. Why not just have 3 hives with 9 biomass be the victory condition for aliens? The two would effectively be the same thing.
You also make it sound like it's far beyond the skill level of rookies to end the game without contamination. If "don't go inside the base alone, wait for 3 minutes until we have enough onoses and gorges and then let's all go inside together" is too difficult to grasp, then those people deserve to have a bad experience. Because then they will learn.
Your solution is going to solve one minuscule problem but introduce a plethora of others. It's entirely reasonable and likely that a marine commander would at some point want to ARC a room adjacent to a tech point, but your solution would make this impossible. Afterwards we would have threads just as ridiculous as this demanding that the aliens shouldnt be allowed to build in nearby rooms if the marines have a CC there because there would be no counter.
I can think of an example of this that happens quite a lot. On Docking, sometimes Aliens start Departures and Marines start terminal. If Aliens win, that area, they usually gorge it up with whips, hydras, etc. You can easily clear out those structures with an ARC with no loss to teammates. Why make your Marines go in to fight and die when an ARCs can clear it easier, quicker, and from a safe distance? That's a no-brainer.
ARCs aren't a hard counter for contamination, as many people have stated in this thread.
Protected by the whole marine team camping in the base with upgrades, maybe even sentries against rookies ... yes they are a hard counter against contamination.. and echoed in structures.
There are ways to deal with them. What you want is a 100% success rate end-game tech with no counters when the aliens have 3 hives. While I do agree that at that point the game should be hugely in favour of the aliens, making contamination un-counterable would make little sense.
No, it would only be close to 100% if the marines camp in base and let the aliens gather countless resources, build countless whips etc.
Similarly, an ARC train on the last hive is near 100% successful against rookies. I'm not even talking about the equivalent situation where rookie aliens camp in base.
Why not just have 3 hives with 9 biomass be the victory condition for aliens? The two would effectively be the same thing.
No it wouldn't. You win by stopping the marines from being able to spawn or by killing the last CC.
Marines could still turn a game around with 3 hives, bio9 if they out-teched the aliens, stopped them from harvesting resources etc.
But NOT by camping in base, making aliens give up/leave due to frustration.
I can think of an example of this that happens quite a lot. On Docking, sometimes Aliens start Departures and Marines start terminal. If Aliens win, that area, they usually gorge it up with whips, hydras, etc. You can easily clear out those structures with an ARC with no loss to teammates. Why make your Marines go in to fight and die when an ARCs can clear it easier, quicker, and from a safe distance? That's a no-brainer.
In the name of the lord please use your one brain.
How does not being able to shoot into the CC room / ARCs doing AoE damage to marine buildings cause any problems with arcing nearby rooms? Right! It doesn't.
How does not being able to shoot inside the CC room / ARCs doing AoE damage to marine buildings cause any problems with arcing nearby rooms? Right! It doesn't.
I have no idea WTF you just said. Perhaps punctuation and better sentence structure would help. Not having ARCs deploy at a tech point is stupid. Period.
I have no idea WTF you just said. Perhaps punctuation and better sentence structure would help. Not having ARCs deploy at a tech point is stupid. Period.
Are you playing dumb?
Wow, and other people are upvoting some of this dumb stuff. I'm really at a loss with this community.
Dude, when you're wrong, you're wrong. Sorry. Having ARCs doing damage to Marine structures is ludicrous. Having ARCs non-deployable until it leaves the CC room is just as ridiculous. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean it's dumb or wrong. It usually fits under the majority rules situation. If the majority of people believe you are wrong, chances are, you're the one that is wrong. Not the majority.
While I find ARCs in base annoying as Alien comm, I'm sure constantly cysting into Marine structures is just as annoying to a Marine comm, but that doesn't mean I can't do it. To each his own. I'm not gonna complain about it and then verbally attack those that disagree with my perspective. ( *cough* xnor *cough* )
Dude, when you're wrong, you're wrong. Sorry. Having ARCs doing damage to Marine structures is ludicrous. Having ARCs non-deployable until it leaves the CC room is just as ridiculous. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean it's dumb or wrong. It usually fits under the majority rules situation. If the majority of people believe you are wrong, chances are, you're the one that is wrong. Not the majority.
You either cannot read or you're a troll. Maybe even both. Go play somewhere else.
Doing damage to marine structures is just an option, #2 specifically. Not much different from marines harming themselves with their own grenades => commander harming his structure with his own ARCs.
Don't worry if you don't get it.
Basing an argument on the majority of people is a logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum. Btw, you don't even know what the majority of those rookies (they are the ones who are affected) really think, do you?
I were in those games. People left, others were really annoyed and frustrated. They got royally screwed. I can only hope they bought it from the Humble Bundle for like $1, because they will probably never start this game again.
the OP must have been in my game cuz i like ARC's in main base and want to give the alien team a headache
You're hurting the game and community, but proceed griefing. All I am is being sorry for you.
But who cares. I am not participating in such rounds anymore. There are a lot better ways to waste time.
While I find ARCs in base annoying as Alien comm, I'm sure constantly cysting into Marine structures is just as annoying to a Marine comm, but that doesn't mean I can't do it. To each his own. I'm not gonna complain about it and then verbally attack those that disagree with my perspective. ( *cough* xnor *cough* )
There's a difference between calling someone stupid that isn't and calling someone stupid that really is stupid.
The cysts into marine structures do little damage, are a complete different matter.. but I'm used to off-topic comments by now. Please explain how they stop marines from ending a game where they have full map control. Thanks!
Your idea would make contamination whip rush a 100% (or in your words, near-100%) successful end game tactic. The problem with this is that no single mechanic should have that power, because it can be amplified with other strategies. Attack the base with 2 onoses and do a contamination whip rush at the same time, and if there are no ARCs to kill the whips, there is nothing the marine team can do. They cannot dps down both the whips and the aliens.
Also, if the marines have 2 bases, they cannot protect them both at the same time and they need ARCs to defend against whip rushes.
In every case, your idea would have the game be effectively over every time the aliens have 9 biomass and even the slightest strip of competence.
PS: Any mods around to close this thread, before more people that cannot read turn up?
One thing I agree with you here. Honestly man, seems like you're trollin your own thread now. Until the green wave learns or leaves, YOU WILL HAVE FRUSTRATING GAMES. No amount of balance changes will fix the fact that NEW PEOPLE dont know all the facets of ns2 gameplay. You surely can appreciate that, and you know that's no reason to stack. Stacks happen, and they're ugly, but again... game balance doesn't fix that.
I haven't read anybody being overly rude or anything to draw your "disgust." Simply people discussing your suggestion, only to be grieved by you. Sorry man, it's just not a logical fix, simple as that.
BTW I do appreciate you takin the time to reply... but understand when a dud is a dud.
It's like arguing with a brick wall. Spamming disagrees after IronHorse warned you deosn't exactly help your case. I don't appreciate your willingness to depreciate my stats because I disagree with you.
You either cannot read or you're a troll. Maybe even both. Go play somewhere else.
Doing damage to marine structures is just an option, #2 specifically. Not much different from marines harming themselves with their own grenades => commander harming his structure with his own ARCs.
Don't worry if you don't get it.
As far as this goes, personal attacks are the most immature and narrow-minded things you can do simply because someone disagrees with your opinion or suggestions. You presented an option that ARCs do damage to Marine structures when deployed in base. I replied saying that would not be a suitable alternative. Don't worry. I get it just fine.
The cysts into marine structures do little damage, are a complete different matter.. but I'm used to off-topic comments by now. Please explain how they stop marines from ending a game where they have full map control. Thanks!
I mentioned this because cysting onto Marine structures is annoying. Having ARCs in base to counter a whip rush is annoying. However, I can't dictate how players decide to play the game. Besides, you said the Marines won that game. Looks like the ARCs served their purpose. It prevented Aliens from destroying the base and the Marines came back to win. Even though some Aliens rage quit, they just lacked the resiliency to end the game. The Marines had the resiliency to defend the base and then win the game. Sounds like an amazing comeback to me.
You still don't get it, do you? I'm talking about bloody beginners, some of which don't even listen to the commander.
OOOHHH well that changes everything, then!
OK, so we should instead design this game around and limited by the skillset of "bloody beginners", because anything else is "screwing the rookies". They can't be asked or expected to learn how to play! Got it, lets roll with this:
Arcs cannot be deployed near a techpoint
We have to remove jumping for either teams, as that's just too much movement to track for beginners
Going to have to implement some sort of console auto aim to assist those still learning to aim
I think supply crates dropped every few seconds will help both teams when they get into a hard situation, since they're not listening to their commander
The team's expansion will be automatic so as not to expect the team to know how to expand while being offensive
When you get close enough as an alien you automatically attack, so you don't have to worry about learning how to time your bites - you're a bloody beginner for christs sake!
Your lifeforms will be assigned to you so you aren't expected to make that tough tactical choice on how to help your team the most
Because the players aren't listening to commanders, there will be a gigantic white arrow with an icon in the center of the screen to show where and what to attack at all times
When late game comes, the round will end in a draw so that both teams feel like victors, and have an incentive to play again
BAM.
Now you can't possibly put words in my mouth like "screw the rookies" with such concessions as those!!
I've more than accounted for their inability to know how to play, as well as their inability to execute on it. This is the game design route you were suggesting obviously, because i wouldn't put words in your mouth.
(happening only 1 out of X games will definitely dictate whether we change a mechanic.. so that info is relevant and is definitely not a non sequitor, for just one example of your dismissals)
No, it's happening often on rookie servers where there's at least one non-rookie as comm on both sides.
No its not.
I play public games exclusively, on rookie friendly or rookie only servers, and am averaging 20 hours this week. I've been doing this for the past year, and have seen maybe two games ever have arcs in base to hard counter whips successfully enough to have no method to end the round by the rest of the playing team. It ended by conceding.
This just isn't happening "often", and when it is, it is not a guaranteed marine win, nor is it the crucial issue you depict it to be (player count referencing because of this? really? are you that disconnected from this game to realize what is causing that?) to warrant the downsides that would come with such a change. This is why you are being disagreed with. Its a poorly thought out idea and design route. Walk away with some dignity, at the very least.
Btw, I was serious about closing my thread. I've picked up the attitude to screw the rookies. Problem solved.
No.
As long as you are responding to your own thread, especially in such a manner to other users, it serves greater good to the community to see your colors.
You have the choice to not post, just like you have the choice of how to treat your fellow community members in here.
As far as I am concerned, you made your bed, now lie in it.
Your idea would make contamination whip rush a 100% (or in your words, near-100%) successful end game tactic. The problem with this is that no single mechanic should have that power, because it can be amplified with other strategies. Attack the base with 2 onoses and do a contamination whip rush at the same time, and if there are no ARCs to kill the whips, there is nothing the marine team can do. They cannot dps down both the whips and the aliens.
It would make it as effective as an ARC train (or two) when marines have the whole map under control.
Also, if the marines have 2 bases, they cannot protect them both at the same time and they need ARCs to defend against whip rushes.
That's simply false and contamination whip rush is only possible on 5 tech point maps after quite a long time. I don't know why I have to repeat this again.
Just turn it around: aliens have 2 hives, so we have to ban phase gates because marines can set up phase gates near each hive and attack them at the same time?
In every case, your idea would have the game be effectively over every time the aliens have 9 biomass and even the slightest strip of competence.
After 1 hour and as good as full map control, yes, the game should end.
You guys make it sound like contamination whip rush is something you do after a couple of minutes, and that every marine base has ARCs in there for defense. That's completely delusional.
One thing I agree with you here. Honestly man, seems like you're trollin your own thread now. Until the green wave learns or leaves, YOU WILL HAVE FRUSTRATING GAMES. No amount of balance changes will fix the fact that NEW PEOPLE dont know all the facets of ns2 gameplay. You surely can appreciate that, and you know that's no reason to stack. Stacks happen, and they're ugly, but again... game balance doesn't fix that.
I've had some very enjoyable games with rookies when the other team wasn't fortifying / griefing / whatever. In case of a stack, chances are lower for the marines to play castle defense, so stacking it is.
That is until all the rookies have given up the game again.
It's like arguing with a brick wall. Spamming disagrees after IronHorse warned you deosn't exactly help your case. I don't appreciate your willingness to depreciate my stats because I disagree with you.
Yes, especially with you. I am not spamming disagrees, I disagree which each of your posts in this thread because they're nonsense.
As far as this goes, personal attacks are the most immature and narrow-minded things you can do simply because someone disagrees with your opinion or suggestions. You presented an option that ARCs do damage to Marine structures when deployed in base. I replied saying that would not be a suitable alternative. Don't worry. I get it just fine.
I mentioned this because cysting onto Marine structures is annoying. Having ARCs in base to counter a whip rush is annoying. However, I can't dictate how players decide to play the game. Besides, you said the Marines won that game. Looks like the ARCs served their purpose. It prevented Aliens from destroying the base and the Marines came back to win. Even though some Aliens rage quit, they just lacked the resiliency to end the game. The Marines had the resiliency to defend the base and then win the game. Sounds like an amazing comeback to me.
Off-topic again. And: so things that have been fixed in the past were not the fault of the game but of the people using the "features"/bugs in a wrong annoying way?
Then please bring back all the bugs, and let people decide how they want to use them. After all, all the games that were turned around due to those "features" were amazing comebacks. Jezz, are you even listening to yourself?
In my book ARCs are offensive units, not units to fortify your base with.
OOOHHH well that changes everything, then!
OK, so we should instead design this game around and limited by the skillset of "bloody beginners", because anything else is "screwing the rookies". They can't be asked or expected to learn how to play!
/triple-facepalm ("not even double facepalm can explain how much you fail")
I specifically pointed out to make games shorter by this fix, reduce frustration for rookies, make it a smoother experience. Otherwise it doesn't have big effects at all.
You're obviously too narrow-minded to see this.
No its not.
I play public games exclusively, on rookie friendly or rookie only servers, and am averaging 20 hours this week. I've been doing this for the past year, and have seen maybe two games ever have arcs in base to hard counter whips successfully enough to have no method to end the round by the rest of the playing team. It ended by conceding.
Oh, back to the "I haven't seen this problem so it doesn't exist" nonsense. Short term memory?
The problem is probably that you've been playing stacked games all along, and not such games with balanced rookie teams where there's a constant back and forth until one team finally holds the upper hand.
This just isn't happening "often", and when it is, it is not a guaranteed marine win, nor is it the crucial issue you depict it to be (player count referencing because of this? really? are you that disconnected from this game to realize what is causing that?) to warrant the downsides that would come with such a change. This is why you are being disagreed with. Its a poorly thought out idea and design route. Walk away with some dignity, at the very least.
LOL. It's getting better and better. I said this is only a part of the problem, but you seem to prefer to be dishonest to make others look bad. Nice!
When games take a long time, which they do with balanced teams, then it is frustrating for rookies if they cannot end it. Just because you haven't had many of such games doesn't make this problem unimportant.
No.
As long as you are responding to your own thread, especially in such a manner to other users, it serves greater good to the community to see your colors.
You have the choice to not post, just like you have the choice of how to treat your fellow community members in here.
As far as I am concerned, you made your bed, now lie in it.
Yes, then keep it open. Do whatever you like. It's a great example of reading disability. short-term memory (maybe Alzheimer's) and other gems.
Think of me whatever you like! I'm off to stomp some rookies, because that's what is really being encouraged in this community.
You should thank me, I'm doing the dirty work for you to get rid of those pesky rookies.
I specifically pointed out to make games shorter by this fix, reduce frustration for rookies, make it a smoother experience. Otherwise it doesn't have big effects at all.
You're obviously too narrow-minded to see this.
So did I! What, you didn't like my list? Hows that possible? I followed your design suggestion of not expecting players to learn how to play!
My items will make games shorter, reduce frustration for rookies and make it a smoother experience.
In fact, i'd wager my list would do a far better job reaching those goals than just your suggestion.
So I take it you'd be in full support of my suggestions and method of game design then since you didn't give a rebuttal??
The problem is probably that you've been playing stacked games all along, and not such games with balanced rookie teams where there's a constant back and forth until one team finally holds the upper hand.
OHHHH ok i see now, so I've never actually had a balanced game in my years and years of playing this game.
Got it, ok, whew.. thanks .. for a moment my memory was betraying me.
Glad that you have a good handle on the state of things though, please go on calling everyone stupid, your personal accounts are obviously far more valid than everyone disagreeing with you.
Think of me whatever you like! I'm off to stomp some rookies, because that's what is really being encouraged in this community.
You should thank me, I'm doing the dirty work for you to get rid of those pesky rookies.
I'm sure that won't tarnish your golden reputation at this point, so go on with your bad self. I'm sure everyone will support your point of view when you explain it...
If new players can't close the game out with complete map control and everything in the tech tree at their disposal, what possible chance do they have in any other situation?
You can't patch out communication and coordination issues. Keeping ARCs from being fired in base rooms won't stop newbies from failing to coordinate a base push.
If they can't follow a simple instruction to all group up as Onos outside the base, then run in at the same time and focus the chair, because that's all you really need in most public servers, that's not the game's problem. You'll be hard pressed to find ANY marine team that can stop 7+ Onos from bulldozing the CC into the ground before they all die.
It gets better if you actually have drifter support or one Onos spamming stomp the entire time to keep marines from retaliating.
If new players can't even accomplish that zero-finesse tactic when every other game-ending strat requires more effort to pull off, then I'm sorry, but no amount of changes to the game itself will fix the problem.
I specifically pointed out to make games shorter by this fix, reduce frustration for rookies, make it a smoother experience. Otherwise it doesn't have big effects at all.
You're obviously too narrow-minded to see this.
So did I! What, you didn't like my list? Hows that possible? I followed your design suggestion of not expecting players to learn how to play!
My items will make games shorter, reduce frustration for rookies and make it a smoother experience.
In fact, i'd wager my list would do a far better job reaching those goals than just your suggestion.
So I take it you'd be in full support of my suggestions and method of game design then since you didn't give a rebuttal??
OHHHH ok i see now, so I've never actually had a balanced game in my years and years of playing this game.
Got it, ok, whew.. thanks .. for a moment my memory was betraying me.
I'm sure that won't tarnish your golden reputation at this point, so go on with your bad self. I'm sure everyone will support your point of view when you explain it...
As I said, I don't care about my reputation. Even that I have to repeat. Ridiculous.
There's nothing ironic about it. If you can't keep a civil tone and decide this passive-aggressive nonsense is an appropriate way to express your opinion, I will damn well flag your post as abusive as I see fit.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Must resist throwing this into general discussion just to see him cling to that denial with three times the disagrees...
Also love it when I intentionally and methodically word my posts to mirror his own, and he responds with "if you've run out of arguments.." LOL
Nice lack of rebuttals btw regarding your personal accounts being the only valid data set from which to design this game.
2cough said it best : you are trolling your own thread.
There's nothing ironic about it. If you can't keep a civil tone and decide this passive-aggressive nonsense is an appropriate way to express your opinion, I will damn well flag your post as abusive as I see fit.
I don't see how pointing out that I have to repeat everything several times is an opinion instead of a fact, but nevertheless I guess I even have define abuse for you: "language that condemns or vilifies".
You're abusing the system so I'm flagging your post.
Must resist throwing this into general discussion just to see him cling to that denial with three times the disagrees...
Do you seriously get a kick out of the number of disagrees I get? How pathetic are you people around here?
Also, let me repeat (that doesn't get old with you, does it): I don't care about the number of disagrees. All I said is that disagrees without real arguments behind them are childish.
Also love it when I intentionally and methodically word my posts to mirror his own, and he responds with "if you've run out of arguments.." LOL
I'm not repeating my points for your memory over and over and over and over and over again. Since your replies are just about me anymore, I have to conclude that you're out of arguments, yes. I'm just replying to your posts. If they just contain nonsense expect replies dealing with that nonsense.
Nice lack of rebuttals btw regarding your personal accounts being the only valid data set from which to design this game.
I was never talking about game design, that's just your strawman.
I just had another game where marines used ARCs in base, but thanks to the stack we stomped them despite many rookies. That's really the "solution" that is offered here.
I'm done with this conversation. This guy added 5 disagrees to my profile. Ugh. Oh well.
Don't fear we all will add 5 x as much agrees
And yeah i said before this is pretty pointless. It's not a discussion anymore.
I think every thing which could be logical be said has been said and this turned more into a "one against all" thread:
Defending a idea by abusing us others as idiots because we won't and can't agree with him even after we pointed out multiple times why we can't agree and asked him to calm down and be polite is not how you argue with others.
So please some forum mod should end this before someone gets "killed".
@xnor its just a game... so what if you lost one game because the aliens couldn't get it together to win.
you can't change game mechanics to appease incapable players.
Later, if UWE does what you suggest then there will be someone like you making a post about how the new mechanics are bad.
Nothing happens to me. The rookies stop playing the game, so I was just making a suggestion.
Yes, the "screw rookies" attitude is well known by now.
Sure, there could be people saying that the mechanics are bad. What would be the arguments though? (<- That's the only thing I was interested in, but instead it had to be an extremely painful thread..)
But as I said before, don't really care anymore. Just stack & stomp.
I keep on replying because I enjoy the nonsense that is being posted.
edit: @GhoulofGSG9 you've flagged some of my old posts as abuse as well, although they are not. So I have to flag your posts as abuse as well.
Comments
Your way of presenting your point is ridiculous. Stop reducing the 'problem' and the opinions of others into idiotic strawmen and maybe you'd get somewhere. Nobody saying 'screw the rookies'. It's all in your head. Stop throwing a tantrum when people disagree with you.
Additionally, it's pretty funny you want a refund on your donation becausE one little bad idea was ill recepted. Nobody wants you to stop playing, nobody wants you to purposely pub stomp. Just wait for greens to improve, and focus on interactive and effective team-play while they do.
No, it wouldn't. You should actually start reading my and other's posts before commenting on them.
I'm really tired of repeating points...
The replies, such as yours, are ridiculous.
Telling bloody rookies that they have to play with more skill (effectively: they mustn't be bloody rookies) means exactly that: screw the rookies.
The ns2 player numbers disagree with you. Besides some fans and elitist ns1 players not many stick with this game. Yeah, thousands have tried it .. and stopped playing because all they felt was being screwed over.
It should be obvious that there's a high chance of new players leaving the game again after trying it out. The veterans probably have very constant average play times, so if the numbers drop to the old low then where are the new players?
My idea is brilliant!
Screw the rookies comes from the attitude to not make it easier for bloody rookies to make ending games easier, to give them a gratifying ending after sometimes over 1 hour of "hard work".
The stomping thing is the consequence of that.
Sure it has. Stack a team, stomp the enemies. Makes rounds quick and painless. That the other team usually consists of rookies is just collateral damage if you will.
I've tried organizing the rookies. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. When it didn't it used up more time than multiple games where it did.
That plus the frustrating situation of griefing marines with ARCs in base and your comments is what convinced me to screw and just stomp the rookies.
It's not the reactions to my suggestion but the whole community that really started to disgust me.
What greens? They will be gone soon! See ya stackin'.
PS: Any mods around to close this thread, before more people that cannot read turn up?
I admit I missed the last line of your original post. Doesn't make the idea any less horrible though. ARCs aren't a hard counter for contamination, as many people have stated in this thread. There are ways to deal with them. What you want is a 100% success rate end-game tech with no counters when the aliens have 3 hives. While I do agree that at that point the game should be hugely in favour of the aliens, making contamination un-counterable would make little sense. Why not just have 3 hives with 9 biomass be the victory condition for aliens? The two would effectively be the same thing.
You also make it sound like it's far beyond the skill level of rookies to end the game without contamination. If "don't go inside the base alone, wait for 3 minutes until we have enough onoses and gorges and then let's all go inside together" is too difficult to grasp, then those people deserve to have a bad experience. Because then they will learn.
I can think of an example of this that happens quite a lot. On Docking, sometimes Aliens start Departures and Marines start terminal. If Aliens win, that area, they usually gorge it up with whips, hydras, etc. You can easily clear out those structures with an ARC with no loss to teammates. Why make your Marines go in to fight and die when an ARCs can clear it easier, quicker, and from a safe distance? That's a no-brainer.
No, it would only be close to 100% if the marines camp in base and let the aliens gather countless resources, build countless whips etc.
Similarly, an ARC train on the last hive is near 100% successful against rookies. I'm not even talking about the equivalent situation where rookie aliens camp in base.
No it wouldn't. You win by stopping the marines from being able to spawn or by killing the last CC.
Marines could still turn a game around with 3 hives, bio9 if they out-teched the aliens, stopped them from harvesting resources etc.
But NOT by camping in base, making aliens give up/leave due to frustration.
How does not being able to shoot into the CC room / ARCs doing AoE damage to marine buildings cause any problems with arcing nearby rooms? Right! It doesn't.
I have no idea WTF you just said. Perhaps punctuation and better sentence structure would help. Not having ARCs deploy at a tech point is stupid. Period.
Wow, and other people are upvoting some of this dumb stuff. I'm really at a loss with this community.
Doing damage to marine structures is just an option, #2 specifically. Not much different from marines harming themselves with their own grenades => commander harming his structure with his own ARCs.
Don't worry if you don't get it.
Basing an argument on the majority of people is a logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum. Btw, you don't even know what the majority of those rookies (they are the ones who are affected) really think, do you?
I were in those games. People left, others were really annoyed and frustrated. They got royally screwed. I can only hope they bought it from the Humble Bundle for like $1, because they will probably never start this game again.
You're hurting the game and community, but proceed griefing. All I am is being sorry for you.
But who cares. I am not participating in such rounds anymore. There are a lot better ways to waste time.
There's a difference between calling someone stupid that isn't and calling someone stupid that really is stupid.
The cysts into marine structures do little damage, are a complete different matter.. but I'm used to off-topic comments by now. Please explain how they stop marines from ending a game where they have full map control. Thanks!
Also, if the marines have 2 bases, they cannot protect them both at the same time and they need ARCs to defend against whip rushes.
In every case, your idea would have the game be effectively over every time the aliens have 9 biomass and even the slightest strip of competence.
One thing I agree with you here. Honestly man, seems like you're trollin your own thread now. Until the green wave learns or leaves, YOU WILL HAVE FRUSTRATING GAMES. No amount of balance changes will fix the fact that NEW PEOPLE dont know all the facets of ns2 gameplay. You surely can appreciate that, and you know that's no reason to stack. Stacks happen, and they're ugly, but again... game balance doesn't fix that.
I haven't read anybody being overly rude or anything to draw your "disgust." Simply people discussing your suggestion, only to be grieved by you. Sorry man, it's just not a logical fix, simple as that.
BTW I do appreciate you takin the time to reply... but understand when a dud is a dud.
As far as this goes, personal attacks are the most immature and narrow-minded things you can do simply because someone disagrees with your opinion or suggestions. You presented an option that ARCs do damage to Marine structures when deployed in base. I replied saying that would not be a suitable alternative. Don't worry. I get it just fine.
I mentioned this because cysting onto Marine structures is annoying. Having ARCs in base to counter a whip rush is annoying. However, I can't dictate how players decide to play the game. Besides, you said the Marines won that game. Looks like the ARCs served their purpose. It prevented Aliens from destroying the base and the Marines came back to win. Even though some Aliens rage quit, they just lacked the resiliency to end the game. The Marines had the resiliency to defend the base and then win the game. Sounds like an amazing comeback to me.
OK, so we should instead design this game around and limited by the skillset of "bloody beginners", because anything else is "screwing the rookies". They can't be asked or expected to learn how to play!
Got it, lets roll with this:
BAM.
Now you can't possibly put words in my mouth like "screw the rookies" with such concessions as those!!
I've more than accounted for their inability to know how to play, as well as their inability to execute on it. This is the game design route you were suggesting obviously, because i wouldn't put words in your mouth.
No its not.
I play public games exclusively, on rookie friendly or rookie only servers, and am averaging 20 hours this week.
I've been doing this for the past year, and have seen maybe two games ever have arcs in base to hard counter whips successfully enough to have no method to end the round by the rest of the playing team. It ended by conceding.
This just isn't happening "often", and when it is, it is not a guaranteed marine win, nor is it the crucial issue you depict it to be (player count referencing because of this? really? are you that disconnected from this game to realize what is causing that?) to warrant the downsides that would come with such a change. This is why you are being disagreed with. Its a poorly thought out idea and design route. Walk away with some dignity, at the very least.
No.
As long as you are responding to your own thread, especially in such a manner to other users, it serves greater good to the community to see your colors.
You have the choice to not post, just like you have the choice of how to treat your fellow community members in here.
As far as I am concerned, you made your bed, now lie in it.
That's simply false and contamination whip rush is only possible on 5 tech point maps after quite a long time. I don't know why I have to repeat this again.
Just turn it around: aliens have 2 hives, so we have to ban phase gates because marines can set up phase gates near each hive and attack them at the same time?
After 1 hour and as good as full map control, yes, the game should end.
You guys make it sound like contamination whip rush is something you do after a couple of minutes, and that every marine base has ARCs in there for defense. That's completely delusional.
I've had some very enjoyable games with rookies when the other team wasn't fortifying / griefing / whatever. In case of a stack, chances are lower for the marines to play castle defense, so stacking it is.
That is until all the rookies have given up the game again.
Yes, especially with you. I am not spamming disagrees, I disagree which each of your posts in this thread because they're nonsense.
You don't even get what a personal attack is.
Off-topic again. And: so things that have been fixed in the past were not the fault of the game but of the people using the "features"/bugs in a wrong annoying way?
Then please bring back all the bugs, and let people decide how they want to use them. After all, all the games that were turned around due to those "features" were amazing comebacks. Jezz, are you even listening to yourself?
In my book ARCs are offensive units, not units to fortify your base with.
/triple-facepalm ("not even double facepalm can explain how much you fail")
I specifically pointed out to make games shorter by this fix, reduce frustration for rookies, make it a smoother experience. Otherwise it doesn't have big effects at all.
You're obviously too narrow-minded to see this.
The "ARCs cannot be deployed" has been refuted like 5 times now. Are you that stupid?
I cannot be non-insulting anymore with that amount of stupidity around here...
No, the nonsense you posted stands for itself.
Oh, back to the "I haven't seen this problem so it doesn't exist" nonsense. Short term memory?
The problem is probably that you've been playing stacked games all along, and not such games with balanced rookie teams where there's a constant back and forth until one team finally holds the upper hand.
LOL. It's getting better and better. I said this is only a part of the problem, but you seem to prefer to be dishonest to make others look bad. Nice!
When games take a long time, which they do with balanced teams, then it is frustrating for rookies if they cannot end it. Just because you haven't had many of such games doesn't make this problem unimportant.
Yes, then keep it open. Do whatever you like. It's a great example of reading disability. short-term memory (maybe Alzheimer's) and other gems.
Think of me whatever you like! I'm off to stomp some rookies, because that's what is really being encouraged in this community.
You should thank me, I'm doing the dirty work for you to get rid of those pesky rookies.
My items will make games shorter, reduce frustration for rookies and make it a smoother experience.
In fact, i'd wager my list would do a far better job reaching those goals than just your suggestion.
So I take it you'd be in full support of my suggestions and method of game design then since you didn't give a rebuttal??
OHHHH ok i see now, so I've never actually had a balanced game in my years and years of playing this game.
Got it, ok, whew.. thanks .. for a moment my memory was betraying me.
Glad that you have a good handle on the state of things though, please go on calling everyone stupid, your personal accounts are obviously far more valid than everyone disagreeing with you.
I'm sure that won't tarnish your golden reputation at this point, so go on with your bad self. I'm sure everyone will support your point of view when you explain it...
So you do know what that word means.. interesting. :-?
You can't patch out communication and coordination issues. Keeping ARCs from being fired in base rooms won't stop newbies from failing to coordinate a base push.
If they can't follow a simple instruction to all group up as Onos outside the base, then run in at the same time and focus the chair, because that's all you really need in most public servers, that's not the game's problem. You'll be hard pressed to find ANY marine team that can stop 7+ Onos from bulldozing the CC into the ground before they all die.
It gets better if you actually have drifter support or one Onos spamming stomp the entire time to keep marines from retaliating.
If new players can't even accomplish that zero-finesse tactic when every other game-ending strat requires more effort to pull off, then I'm sorry, but no amount of changes to the game itself will fix the problem.
Wouldn't be the first time.
As I said, I don't care about my reputation. Even that I have to repeat. Ridiculous.
So I guess you've looked the word up. Only problem I see is that you have to look it up again in 30 mins, and 30 mins after that ...
But seriously, if you're out of arguments why don't you just say so?
@NeXuS thought you were done with this conversation? How pathetic!
Also love it when I intentionally and methodically word my posts to mirror his own, and he responds with "if you've run out of arguments.." LOL
Nice lack of rebuttals btw regarding your personal accounts being the only valid data set from which to design this game.
2cough said it best : you are trolling your own thread.
You're abusing the system so I'm flagging your post.
Do you seriously get a kick out of the number of disagrees I get? How pathetic are you people around here?
Also, let me repeat (that doesn't get old with you, does it): I don't care about the number of disagrees. All I said is that disagrees without real arguments behind them are childish.
I'm not repeating my points for your memory over and over and over and over and over again. Since your replies are just about me anymore, I have to conclude that you're out of arguments, yes. I'm just replying to your posts. If they just contain nonsense expect replies dealing with that nonsense.
I was never talking about game design, that's just your strawman.
I just had another game where marines used ARCs in base, but thanks to the stack we stomped them despite many rookies. That's really the "solution" that is offered here.
"Trolling your own thread" doesn't even make logically any sense. /wallbash
Don't fear we all will add 5 x as much agrees
And yeah i said before this is pretty pointless. It's not a discussion anymore.
I think every thing which could be logical be said has been said and this turned more into a "one against all" thread:
Defending a idea by abusing us others as idiots because we won't and can't agree with him even after we pointed out multiple times why we can't agree and asked him to calm down and be polite is not how you argue with others.
So please some forum mod should end this before someone gets "killed".
you can't change game mechanics to appease incapable players.
Later, if UWE does what you suggest then there will be someone like you making a post about how the new mechanics are bad.
Nothing happens to me. The rookies stop playing the game, so I was just making a suggestion.
Yes, the "screw rookies" attitude is well known by now.
Sure, there could be people saying that the mechanics are bad. What would be the arguments though? (<- That's the only thing I was interested in, but instead it had to be an extremely painful thread..)
But as I said before, don't really care anymore. Just stack & stomp.
I keep on replying because I enjoy the nonsense that is being posted.
edit: @GhoulofGSG9 you've flagged some of my old posts as abuse as well, although they are not. So I have to flag your posts as abuse as well.