Their design must have been bad on purpose then...
I mean, how many players actually have reserved slots? And even then, you probably have a slot on ONE server.
The way servers are filtered now just makes it more annoying for the greatest majority of players.
What's the point of having a "Filter full" option if it doesn't do its job?
A server that has reserved slots free, is NOT full only for those with reserved slots (= 0,1% of player base)
It's not FULL full, it could change and it's kinda hard to detect unless it really IS full.
Yea, I get it, the non-reserved slots are all taken, some reserved slots are still available.
Still, this way of displaying data isn't useful for most people out there
You clearly understand it's not really full, it ONLY happens on servers with reserved slots (admittedly a lot of US servers) can't you just read how many people are in it and not join it?
The only way I see getting around this is having another check box that says "incl. reserved slots" or something. When checked it will filter those out if its currentPlayerCount is >= reportedMaxPlayers.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited December 2013
@redsword
Wheres the reasoning in that?? If the player cannot join because there's no spot available to them, due to reserved slot or full - then the player does not need to guess anything??
If instead, the player has a reserved slot on that server, then they would not need to guess.
In short.. where does that server browser make a player guess whether they can or cannot join a server? Because i dont see it.
I do agree, however, that adding a parenthesis next to the number would help those that cannot fathom what 18/16 means. (i suggested this very thing long long ago)
@op want me to close your thread, since it seems like you just didn't understand what was occurring? (server side mods)
@IronHorse : I forgot how fun it is to wait to load the map and download all the mods of a server. And then join the ready room, get a "server is full, slot is reserved" and then get kicked.
Very fun. Much wow.
"where does that server browser make a player guess whether they can or cannot join a server"
... some 22/24 are 24 public slots server, some are 22 public slots + 2 reserved slots... There is no way to know, hence guessing ( seriously ? ...)
@op want me to close your thread, since it seems like you just didn't understand what was occurring? (server side mods)
Well, I have no idea about the technical limitations.
I was convinced it was a bug at first, since I had no hints about slots reservation, that's why I made this thread.
Is there a way for the client browser to:
a) know reserved slots information about servers
b) know whether the user has a slot reserved on each server?
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited December 2013
Nothing at all can be done about those server side mods that lure you in. That's how they wish to operate - they obviously don't have to do it that way as many other servers have demonstrated. Take it up with said server owner.
Same goes for servers that say 22/24 running a custom solution. (i only know of one server that does this - they made their own system and prefer it like this for the same reason as above)
Other systems that ghoul maintains do not have this issue Afaik. Hence the obvious 18/16 servers you see in his screen shot.
@wopwop
Yes to the first one, there is an official implementation but last i checked it's broken.. Which is fine really considering how few people ever tried using it over shine etc. In the first place. Ideally it should only be relevant info when you cannot join, i. E. 18/16.. Else it remains transparent.
I agree this isn't the best method.
No to the second One, but... Wouldn't a player already know if they had a reserved slot on a server?? I've never heard of any server browser having this feature, ever?
Note no space between maxPlayers and the (.
Also note that I want to see a proper queue system where you don't get luck of the draw refresh join and actually get a position in queue for the server.
No to the second One, but... Wouldn't a player already know if they had a reserved slot on a server?? I've never heard of any server browser having this feature, ever?
It's not about informing the player whether he has reserved slots, but using that information for filtering.
Consider a semi-full server (full non-reserved slots, available reserved slots).
If you don't have a reserved slot, I would flag that server as full, hence not displaying it.
Otherwise, you could join it, hence display it.
Also note that I want to see a proper queue system where you don't get luck of the draw refresh join and actually get a position in queue for the server.
Does it work like that ? Duuh... can't really call that a queue xD
Auto-join sounds more appropriate to me.
Yeah it's more of an auto join, basically while it's going every 10s it refreshes the server details and if there's a slot it will join. Unfortunately that means that you can be sitting there waiting for 30 minutes as 6 people get lucky and were on a better 10s refresh cycle and got in before you.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited December 2013
@ghosthree3
Steam's auto join works the same way.. many times I've been booted. There's no real referenced list or "queue" that exists for either steam browser or ns2 browser
@wopwop
Those are custom made reserved slot systems that do that intentionally by the server owners.
Afaik shine will report a server as full the second reserved slots go into effect.
For example
16/18 is not full and you can join
18/18 is full and you cannot join
20/18 is full with 2 reserved slots in use, and you still cannot join
Which, pretty much takes care of any need to filter out that info.. Although i do see your point that the server browser includes those that are 20/18 even though you have filtered full servers.
I'll see what we can do about accounting for that implementation.
I know, that's why I WANT a queue system. Steam has an excuse, it can't know how each game functions, so having an auto join regardless is pretty great tbh. The game has no excuse, it should have a proper queue system.
I'm trying to fathom how that would work, in my own head...
I'm not even sure thats ever been done before.
i think you would need some dedicated server to ping and reference lists of queues.. hmm
Just create a list with queued clients at server, if one player leaves block server still as full and wait like x sec if client 1 tries to connect if so let him in otherwise check for client 2 and so on.
On Client side if server is full get queue pos as return instead of just server is full, then try to connect every x secs.
The only complete solution would be for ns2 to officially support reserved slots, and for a user to be able to tell the server browser on what servers they have reserved slots. Then the filters could work as intended.
Servers with no free public slots should be filtered out as "full" in the [public] server browser. Not sure why the simplicity of this is not taken for granted.
Ideally it should validate a steam id on request and let a slot be created on the fly for a reserved player to join but this takes a lot more time to code.
Comments
I mean, how many players actually have reserved slots? And even then, you probably have a slot on ONE server.
The way servers are filtered now just makes it more annoying for the greatest majority of players.
What's the point of having a "Filter full" option if it doesn't do its job?
A server that has reserved slots free, is NOT full only for those with reserved slots (= 0,1% of player base)
Yea, I get it, the non-reserved slots are all taken, some reserved slots are still available.
Still, this way of displaying data isn't useful for most people out there
The whole point of filtering is to avoid doing that.
And it shouldn't be up to the player to guess how many reserve slot there are @Ghost @ your 2nd-to-last posts above.
Wheres the reasoning in that?? If the player cannot join because there's no spot available to them, due to reserved slot or full - then the player does not need to guess anything??
If instead, the player has a reserved slot on that server, then they would not need to guess.
In short.. where does that server browser make a player guess whether they can or cannot join a server? Because i dont see it.
I do agree, however, that adding a parenthesis next to the number would help those that cannot fathom what 18/16 means. (i suggested this very thing long long ago)
@op want me to close your thread, since it seems like you just didn't understand what was occurring? (server side mods)
Very fun. Much wow.
"where does that server browser make a player guess whether they can or cannot join a server"
... some 22/24 are 24 public slots server, some are 22 public slots + 2 reserved slots... There is no way to know, hence guessing ( seriously ? ...)
Well, I have no idea about the technical limitations.
I was convinced it was a bug at first, since I had no hints about slots reservation, that's why I made this thread.
Is there a way for the client browser to:
a) know reserved slots information about servers
b) know whether the user has a slot reserved on each server?
I'm not saying that this will make it works instantly, but it would at least allow server's mods to use/implement that.
Egg-and-chicken problem.
Same goes for servers that say 22/24 running a custom solution. (i only know of one server that does this - they made their own system and prefer it like this for the same reason as above)
Other systems that ghoul maintains do not have this issue Afaik. Hence the obvious 18/16 servers you see in his screen shot.
@wopwop
Yes to the first one, there is an official implementation but last i checked it's broken.. Which is fine really considering how few people ever tried using it over shine etc. In the first place. Ideally it should only be relevant info when you cannot join, i. E. 18/16.. Else it remains transparent.
I agree this isn't the best method.
No to the second One, but... Wouldn't a player already know if they had a reserved slot on a server?? I've never heard of any server browser having this feature, ever?
currentPlayers/maxPlayers(numAvailableReservedSlots) (peopleInQueue)
Note no space between maxPlayers and the (.
Also note that I want to see a proper queue system where you don't get luck of the draw refresh join and actually get a position in queue for the server.
It's not about informing the player whether he has reserved slots, but using that information for filtering.
Consider a semi-full server (full non-reserved slots, available reserved slots).
If you don't have a reserved slot, I would flag that server as full, hence not displaying it.
Otherwise, you could join it, hence display it.
That's how that information could be handy.
Does it work like that
Auto-join sounds more appropriate to me.
Steam's auto join works the same way.. many times I've been booted. There's no real referenced list or "queue" that exists for either steam browser or ns2 browser
@wopwop
Those are custom made reserved slot systems that do that intentionally by the server owners.
Afaik shine will report a server as full the second reserved slots go into effect.
For example
16/18 is not full and you can join
18/18 is full and you cannot join
20/18 is full with 2 reserved slots in use, and you still cannot join
Which, pretty much takes care of any need to filter out that info.. Although i do see your point that the server browser includes those that are 20/18 even though you have filtered full servers.
I'll see what we can do about accounting for that implementation.
I'm not even sure thats ever been done before.
i think you would need some dedicated server to ping and reference lists of queues.. hmm
Just create a list with queued clients at server, if one player leaves block server still as full and wait like x sec if client 1 tries to connect if so let him in otherwise check for client 2 and so on.
On Client side if server is full get queue pos as return instead of just server is full, then try to connect every x secs.