Commander School

Captain_NavarreCaptain_Navarre Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11672Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I would like to command</div> Hey Everyone, how was your new year? good I hope..
Well anyway letsd get down to the topic..
I'm a new NS player, i have played most of the other HL Mods and got good at them.
However none of the others have a commander funtion, and I personaly would like to get good at commanding the troops in NS.
So what i'm trying to propose here is somekind kind of Commander School, where the old pro's can post there tips/hints/tricks and tactical stratergies so that the newbies like myself and others can learn from the better players and be good at commanding.
I have had a look at the commander console and dropped out right away as it looked a bit complicated to begin with.
But i'm sure it's easy once explained.
So please all you old pro's, please post any lessons/tips and such here so I may learn and practice what you say here in the game.
Thanks guys.

Comments

  • PaqPaq Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10876Members
    You should try to get two hives secured asap in the beginning. You can use phase gates, or command half of the team other hive and other half to another free hive. Once you got two hives WELL secured your team will probably win. If aliens got two hives, or it starts to seem that you cant hold two hives, DONT start to build turrets like mad in to your base, res towers, or that one hive probably you have. Those turrets are pretty useless against fades. The things you should do in that situation is that:

    Build arms lab (if you haven't build it yet), upgrade weapons power at least level 1. Command your team using waypoints to keep those fades away from that hive and res towers. Upgrade your armory, but dont give weapons to your team until you got heavy armor, because it is just waste of money, believe me. Ok you can give weapons if you got lots of money like 300rp or more. Then build prototype lab and start building heavy armor. Save some money and start giving to your team heavy armors, heavy machine guns and welders. After that if your weapons power have been upgraded to level 2, you should start to upgrade armors for HA. When you get money upgrade weapons and armors to level 3. Your team is pretty strong in that point and you should start to command them to another hive and siege it down, while your HA team is keeping those fades busy.

    Maybe somebody have better strategies, but those things works for those games i have played... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • [WHO]Them[WHO]Them You can call me Dave Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10593Members, Constellation
    just to add my 2 cents.

    I've found that good commanding usually involves delegating part of your command to another person.
    What this means is that I try to coax one regular marine into "taking charge" of the basic operations of figuring out what res nodes the group needs to take or what hive they have to siege.

    So when I'm in the comm chair I focus primarily on upgrading weapons and armor right away (because after the initial cost, these babies pay for themselves). So that the marines out in the field live longer and don't get demoralized into hiding in the marine start location.

    I don't even bother to make an armory until after we've secured at least 2 res nodes because I find that there are FAR too many newbies that will get in and endless cycle of spawn->fill their lmg up to full capacity->die before they finish their first clip. Which means that half of their time alive the newbies are sitting there at the armory with their thumb up their butt. My reply to people that tell me they need ammo is that they should just go kamikaze (because in the end this also serves the purpose of advanced intelligence of what the kharaa are doing).

    I don't give out heavy armor to anyone except the take charge marine until I have enough to equip them all at once. I also do not give out heavy machine guns until I can supply every marine with one. However, I will often give out 1 or 2 grenade launchers when needed (those babies are life savers sometimes)

    as far as res nodes, there is no strategy that works for EVERY map, but in general, if you have a res node that's tucked away in a corner, then don't bother defending it (turret factory + 3 turrets (average) = way too many friggin rp's). If you have a res node that's out in the open, then you better have SOME kind of defense. I try to focus on clogging up the map's choke points rather than directly defend res nodes, but that's just me.

    When you give ANYONE heavy armor, make sure that you give at LEAST 2 marines a welder, I can't count the number of times I've been a regular marine in HA with only like 10 hit points left, desperately asking anyone for a weld for a solid 5 minutes straight. (HA with 5 minutes of downtime is a bad thing btw)

    ok, so, back to the take charge marine, I basically try to make it clear to that one marine, that HE is in charge of picking targets we're going after, I'm just gonna follow along and keep the group resupplied. Most of the time you'll get at least 1 or 2 ppl that won't follow the group. Some of the time they'll come across a good opportunity, such as hiding in a room that only has a thin wall separating it from the hive (good siege opportunity), but for the most part, the stragglers are idiots and should be ignored. You'll be sitting there seeing that great opportunity with the straggler, so you lay down the turret factory, 2 seconds later the marine is dead and you get a nice little voice message letting you know that your gear is getting attacked, 20 or so rp's down the drain depending on what you laid down.

    then there's those phase gates, awesome piece of tech, but make sure that you don't lay down too many or else it takes too long for a marine to get where they need to be. I also find it's a good idea to place an armory at any phase gate because a lot of marines will spend a lot of time hopping through portals just to get ammo if you don't, not that it's a bad thing for them to hop through a few portals, but they usually get sidetracked in the process (sidetracking is bad).

    Lastly, it's VITAL that you learn the attack range of a siege cannon. These things are an alien's worst nightmare. Even if it's a target of little tactical value, a lot of aliens will defend an area that gets sieged, so lay them down and lay them down often. Nothing is better than distracting all those aliens from whatever devious little plan they were carrying out.

    That's all I have to say about that.
  • KenichiKenichi This is not a pie. Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You should try to get two hives secured asap in the beginning. You can use phase gates, or command half of the team other hive and other half to another free hive. Once you got two hives WELL secured your team will probably win.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That is very very wrong. On low end pubs maybe but if those aliens have some skill no. First off you are locking hives. Which is at the least EXPENSIVE. At the beginning of the game marines with lmg are the most powerfull thing around. head for that hive and try to slow them down and if you do good you win quick. Rush victory yeah and all it cost was a few ips an armory and maybe an observatory to find the hive. Now even if the rush doesnt work you still slow them down. Send 1 man out to cap Rts and then you tech up. Get jetpacks and boost your weapon level. HMG is too expensive over all to just hand out early game. But with jetpacks you can just go sit up on the hvie or fly around it completly avoiding skulks. No matter what carapace level the have. You would be amazed how simple it is to kill a hive that easily. And on a last note, securing 2 hvies will not probably let you win at all.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Command your team using waypoints to keep those fades away from that hive and res towers. Upgrade your armory, but dont give weapons to your team until you got heavy armor, because it is just waste of money, believe me. Ok you can give weapons if you got lots of money like 300rp or more. Then build prototype lab and start building heavy armor. Save some money and start giving to your team heavy armors, heavy machine guns and welders. After that if your weapons power have been upgraded to level 2, you should start to upgrade armors for HA. When you get money upgrade weapons and armors to level 3. Your team is pretty strong in that point and you should start to command them to another hive and siege it down, while your HA team is keeping those fades busy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Where to begin. First off you dont just keep those fades away. No they kill you and run on in. Your base marines even with some armor fall prey to the acid bomb and the swipe. Don't fool yourself to beleive that marines can really sway a group of fades coming at you because if they are smart they have a lerk umbraing them. In which case your marines are cannon fodder. Secondly the heavy armor thing. It's over rated. If you dont have it by time they got 2 hvies you are probably screwed anyway. You cant tech it fast enough if you dont already have it setup to get it. The fades waltz in and take the base. You write as though you have alot of time after the fades start the attack when in reality any half decent team will decimate you fairly fast. Also if fades are attacking your base, what luck do you think you have of getting a seige attack off while your base is under full attack?
  • Legend92Legend92 Join Date: 2003-01-02 Member: 11722Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--[WHO]Them+Jan 3 2003, 06:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([WHO]Them @ Jan 3 2003, 06:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't even bother to make an armory until after we've secured at least 2 res nodes because I find that there are FAR too many newbies that will get in and endless cycle of spawn->fill their lmg up to full capacity->die before they finish their first clip. Which means that half of their time alive the newbies are sitting there at the armory with their thumb up their butt. My reply to people that tell me they need ammo is that they should just go kamikaze (because in the end this also serves the purpose of advanced intelligence of what the kharaa are doing).
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lol. Its so true too.

    Learning things the hard way I think, is better. Having everyone tell you how to command and build what where isn't really helping you become a better commander. The regular soldier guy is a good thing indeed but, there are times when you got to make a decision on if what he needs is more important then anything else or if it is not.

    I learned the hard way myself. Figuring out everything myself. By the time I was commander for the 5-6th time, I finally got to rushing and holding hives. The first time I commanded I did alright. Though, I do have a losing win/lose ration when it comes to commanding.

    Im still learning but im getting there. Thats my advise for you, learn the hard way <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MobJusticeMobJustice Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11401Members
    edited January 2003
    OK, if you want to comm, and you know at least three of your marines are skilled (read: can aim, cause a marine who can't aim ain't worth ****), just drop 1-2 IPs, an armory, upgrade armory, have some guys rush the enemy hive, and some defend, then once the armory is upgraded, give the HMGs (should have enough for 2-3 at this point) to your skilled marines. Then have the skilled marines stick together and rush to the enemy hive while you drop HP packs on them if they get into some ****.

    Bam. Hive down, GG marines.

    And this, ladies and newbies, is why marines rock all in 1.03 and why you should say "STUPID NOOB!" to anyone who says Marines suck in 1.03.

    <b>Stop working around the swear filter. It's there for a reason.</b>
  • Captain_NavarreCaptain_Navarre Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11672Members
    Thanks for your input guys, i haven't tried to command fully yet, as i want to get my name known a bit first, so i don't grab the chair and all the marines start yelling get that F***ing n00b out the chair.. lol
    look for me on NS at 1300-2100 GMT.
  • Legend92Legend92 Join Date: 2003-01-02 Member: 11722Members
    getting the ip sever would be helpful too.
  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Anyone tell me how recyling works? How much res do you get back from your investment? Can you recycle a newly place, but unbuilt structure? Can you recycle med kits, hmg's etc?
  • MobJusticeMobJustice Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11401Members
    You can recycle almost any structure; for some reason though, I can never recycle Siege turrets. Don't know if its a bug or if I'm an idiot.

    Anyway, to recycle, click on a building, then on your comm panel in the lower right, you'll see two crossed wrenches. Click that, and then you'll hear this whoosh-like sound, and soon the building will recycle and you'll get some RP back. Don't know the exact percentage, though.
  • ImaTargetImaTarget Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3415Members
    the one thing wich aliens in the beginning cant do **obscenity** about (mostly) are jetpacks. Go Straight for jetpacks and rush the aliens. see some frustrated aliens and win fast and easy. Dont need HMG to kill a hive, LMG or even a knive/welder is totally enough if you sit ontop of it.
  • BolterBolter Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8331Members
    You get half the RP, rounded down, for recycled structures. You cannot recycle sieges currently, and I doubt that it will be implemented. All other buildings are fair game. NOTE: a structure must be operational, "built", to be recyclable. You can't just recycle something you dropped by mistake.
    Recycling is not instantaneous. It takes a few seconds before the structure disapears, and you get the RPs. I believe this is done, so you can't recycle structures that are about to be destroyed.

    Commander tips:

    Know your maps! While you needn't know every last vent, knowing where the hives are, as well as strategic "choke points", and key siege locations is a must. Some good maps here:
    <a href='http://www.planetns.com/art/mapoverhead.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.planetns.com/art/mapoverhead.htm</a>

    Voice Com. You can do without, but mannaging a couple of distant battles via type, plus building and upgrading, can get you shell-shocked.

    Keep your cool. In pubs, you'll be called a st00pid n00b most of the times you loose, regardless wether you just won three in a row or not. Deal with it.

    Remember the distress beacon. Once you have an observatory, you can research motion tracking, do scanner sweeps from the equip menu, and use the beacon. If more than 50% of your marines are dead, you can respawn them all regardless of infantry portals. This costs 15 RPs. To use it, select the observatory, and click on the icon that looks like a smoke granade.

    Do not "turret farm" every resource node. If an extractor lasts 2 min and 12 sec, it has paid for itself (assuming standard +1/6sec). Some nodes are at strategic choke points, and are worth defending, though.

    Do not become attached to single strategy. Every commander has a pet strategy that works. Be it hive rush, siege sneak, 2 hive lock-down, etc...However, a time will come when you won't be able to use it. Wether it is because of enemy action, or because your pub team disagrees with you, you must be able to adapt to the situation.

    Read the forums (when they're up). Check out the Frontiersmen strategy discussions. There is good info to be found there.

    Have fun! If you're getting an ulcer because pubbers are second-guessing your build order, not following orders, cannot shoot, whining for shoties, getting killed in droves by one skulk, etc... You need to FINISH the game, and try something else. My personal favorite is to go Skulk on the next round and ruthlessly chewing on marines. I have become a fairly good skulk driver without ever meaning to, so that should tell you something about the learning curve in pubs <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Evil_TimmyEvil_Timmy Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2350Members
    The best way to start learning to command is to take over what the team deems as a 'losing' game and command from there. Most players figure they're screwed anyways, so why not let a new guy try his hand at commanding? Most people are pretty helpful if you say you're new, and oftentimes, you can get the aliens to go easy for a bit. You'll learn pretty quickly what constitutes a good defense and what gets taken out quite quickly. You'll also learn how to defend against alien attacks, and which of their strategies are most effective against different types of marines (you should send out at least one HA/HMG to see how they fare vs defenses and aliens, and with or without a welder guarding them).

    Another good way to learn is to grab two other people and hop on an empty server. Get one (preferrably someone who's commanded before) to be your marine, and get the other to be an alien. Coordinate what you're doing, and have both your friends tell you what usually happens at different times in the game. Test out different strategies for attacking a fortified alien location (LMG+phase, HH, siege), and have your alien friend (and maybe have your marine switch sides) do the same to you (solo, gorge/lerk+fade, DC outpost).

    If you just need to learn the interface, start a LAN game and use cheats (check the Server forum) so the structures you drop don't need to be built and resources aren't a consideration. This will familiarize you with both the interface and the tech tree.

    And, of course, the absolute best way to be a better commander is to play in real games. It's easier if you have a few friends on your team, but don't count on it. Most of the time, you can't count on someone you know being there, and you'll have to play with a bunch of strangers. You may not be that good at first, but everyone starts as a new commander.
  • WormtailWormtail Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10033Members
    Commanding is very tough, but here's a starter's build guide:

    as soon as possible, build 2 infrantry portals.
    after the ip's build an armoury.

    then a turret factory.

    then turrets...
    and than build observatory or sumthing useful (probably armslab)


    on the bottom of page 2 or 3, find my topic, it's about waypoints and what objectives it gives and stuff.

    Oh and if you wanna rush, try the Observatory Rush:


    First you build 1 or 2 infrantry portals
    Quickly build an observatory. Now, after thge obs is done, scan for the main hive. Build a phase gate and after it's done, Tell most of your marines (not all, cause you need defenders) to go to the main hive. when they are near the hive, build a phase gate there. Now Rush the hive!!! protect the phase gate, and the reinforcements from main base will come. if you do this right, you can win easily. also if you got spare recources, try building turrets at your main base.
  • CataclysmicCataclysmic Join Date: 2003-01-05 Member: 11863Members
    My usual build order is-

    1 Infantry portal
    1 Armory
    1 Observatory
    1 Phase Gate

    and then I send them out to go take a hive and then-

    1 Resource Tower (At the taken hive)
    1 Phase Gate (At the taken hive)
    1 Infantry Portal (At main base)

    At that point it all depends on how the game is looking, but this is my generic start as a commander. Sometimes you're going to want to get turrets at the new hive, sometimes you'll want to go cap a res node or two. Like I said, it depends on the game after the second infantry portal.
  • RueRue Join Date: 2002-10-21 Member: 1564Members
    there is one problem with topics like this is that there are few ways that the mariens can play that will make victory possible.

    there is almost a standerd way of making a base , it is probaly a good one but almost ever commanders use it , in game the most inportant thing it getting rp's, for aliens this is easyer imo because they can quickly get offy towers to protect them where as mariens need to make a TF then build turrets. The phase gate when i first played NS was never used , i mean untill 1.02 i never build one and we could still win games.

    there are ways to help your mariens win the map and there are stuff you can do to lose the map for your team , you dont realy need a school becuase we have all learned from playing on pub servers and that is the only place you get to see all the possible ways of play as commander.

    The interface in NS when you are commander is hard to get used to and find out what does what, but after you work that out then its up to you what you do with your team. Best way to learn as commander is not to dive in head first but if you go into a LAN game and type 'sv_cheats 1' in console then bigdig and you can build all the buildings and find out what you can upgrade.
  • 01130113 Join Date: 2002-11-29 Member: 10222Members
    First off, i would like to say that u have to play different strats on every map, there are no super uberized strat that will allways take home the game.
    Second, here's the strats i have seen work most of the time, not only by myself but by other commanders as well.

    1) Locking 2 hives

    Start off by building 2 infantry portals, an armory and an observatory.
    (Here's a thing most comms forget, u dont have to scann for the other hive, just left click above the enemies hive spots and u can actually hear the heart beat of the hive)
    Now, send about half of your team to an empty hive and build a phase gate, build a Res tower and a Turret factory, finish with about 3 - 4 turrets.
    Not only does this secure a hive, it also gives u a new res nozzle.
    Now, send the marines to the other empty hive and do the same trick.
    (I have seen some commanders that even managed to secure both hives at the same time by the use of phase gates).
    From here on, u can either try rushing their main hive, siege it out, tech for hmg and ha or whatever u can think of, kinda hard for the aliens to get back when they have lost 2 out of 3 hives.

    2) Rush

    Just send all your marines to their main hive, build a phase gate right outside and start killing, complement this by building turret factory and turrets during the battle (for this trick to work, the marines on your team must have some skills though, otherwise the skulks will kill them all and take out the phase gate)

    3) Siege Rush

    Get a phase gate up outside their main hive and a turret factory right by it, get your marines to defend it and upgrade Turret factory so u can get sieges. Now just build 1 single siege and a few turrets.
    Kinda lol when the game just have been running for 2 minutes and suddenly, you start hearing the siege cannon.
    This strat could be done without the phase gate as well, but it's kinda risky as it is with the phase gate and personaly I like to keep the risks at an absolute minimum.
  • Dead_DragonDead_Dragon Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10972Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--0113+Jan 6 2003, 08:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (0113 @ Jan 6 2003, 08:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First off, i would like to say that u have to play different strats on every map, there are no super uberized strat that will allways take home the game.
    Second, here's the strats i have seen work most of the time, not only by myself but by other commanders as well.

    1) Locking 2 hives

    Start off by building 2 infantry portals, an armory and an observatory.
    (Here's a thing most comms forget, u dont have to scann for the other hive, just left click above the enemies hive spots and u can actually hear the heart beat of the hive)
    Now, send about half of your team to an empty hive and build a phase gate, build a Res tower and a Turret factory, finish with about 3 - 4 turrets.
    Not only does this secure a hive, it also gives u a new res nozzle.
    Now, send the marines to the other empty hive and do the same trick.
    (I have seen some commanders that even managed to secure both hives at the same time by the use of phase gates).
    From here on, u can either try rushing their main hive, siege it out, tech for hmg and ha or whatever u can think of, kinda hard for the aliens to get back when they have lost 2 out of 3 hives.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Please, please use this tactic.

    It will make it infinitely easier for me and my skulk buddies to rush into your woefully underdefended main base and wipe out your IP and Comm chair.
  • SilverHorseSilverHorse Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8291Members
    Kinda surprised noone mentioned the move-to-hive tactic, which is my personal favorite.

    Place 2 Infantry Portals, One Armory, One Observatory in main base.
    Leave one to two marine(s) in your main base to fend off a skulk rush, and send the rest to an unoccupied hive. Preferably pick the one with the least amount of entrances, sush as Cargo Bay Foyer on ns_nothing, Port Engine Room on ns_nancy, Waste Handling on ns_tanith is good if you get your marines to weld the vents shut. Either way, send the rest there.

    Once they arrive, have the marines suggest a spot in the hive on where to place the CC. Not really vital, but keeps the marines as a part of the equation, and generally they tend to have fun playing This Old Hive <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Once they agree on a spot, place the command chair and let them build it. *Send half of THEM out, see below this paragraph for their use.* Time becomes an essence here as your guards are most likely dead. Place two more infantry portals at the hive, then go into a new observatory, armory, phase, etc etc.

    Now, for the half you sent out as the CC came online, send them to the other unoccupied hive. They will most likely run into a gorge who was too busy saving resources for that hive to set up defense, so let your marines dispatch the gorge accordingly. Place a phase and res nozzle, and then whatever else your heart desires. You have now locked down two hives, and are well on your way to victory.

    On another note, Dead Dragon, You will come face to face with a fairly ticked off commander <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • BolterBolter Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8331Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->    SilverHorse
                               Posted on Jan 7 2003, 12:16 AM

                               Kinda surprised noone mentioned the move-to-hive tactic, which is my personal favorite.

                               Place 2 Infantry Portals, One Armory, One Observatory in main base.
                               Leave one to two marine(s) in your main base to fend off a skulk rush, and send the rest to an unoccupied hive.
                               Preferably pick the one with the least amount of entrances, sush as Cargo Bay Foyer on ns_nothing, Port Engine Room
                               on ns_nancy, Waste Handling on ns_tanith is good if you get your marines to weld the vents shut. Either way, send
                               the rest there.

                               Once they arrive, have the marines suggest a spot in the hive on where to place the CC. Not really vital, but keeps the
                               marines as a part of the equation, and generally they tend to have fun playing This Old Hive

                               Once they agree on a spot, place the command chair and let them build it. *Send half of THEM out, see below this
                               paragraph for their use.* Time becomes an essence here as your guards are most likely dead. Place two more infantry
                               portals at the hive, then go into a new observatory, armory, phase, etc etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This is a valid tactic, specially in hard to defend bases, like in Caged and Bast. However, there are a few draw-backs to this.

    1) Duplication of structures. Building 2 bases in the early game is expensive.

    2) Remote Inf portals. This, IMHO, is the killer. You do not want your marines respawning in diferent parts of the map unless you have phase gates at each location.

    3) Momentum. If you spend resources in building a second base, you are not using your RPs offensivelly, thus relinquishing the initiative.

    4) Enemy response. As soon as Aliens find out that your main base is not the marine start, they'll assume that you'd rather hold on to a hive, and won't strongly contest an attack on marine start. If allowed, they'll waste all those structures you built there, but leave the inf spawns, so they can separate your respawn (if this happens, do yourself a favor and recycle them before your marines start getting angry)

    There is only one really effective way to go about this tactic: To not build anything at marine start, save for 1 inf portal, that will be recycled as soon as you have a CC up at the hive site.
    This requires that you marines survive the initial base rush, and that a suitable hive location is empty. After all, you don't want to end-up at an even worst base site, because the choice hive is alien start.
    Abandoning marine start altoghether, at the start of the game, is really the only way to go.
    No wasted RPs in duplication, no split in respawning marines, no loss of momentum (you ARE taking a hive right away).
    The only true con to this, is enemy response. When they find out where your new base is, they can concentrate their attacks in one location instead of two. The only way to turn this into an advantage is to move the fight to the 2nd hive imediately. Only one thing gives pause to Khaara: The prospect of not getting fades.
  • SilverHorseSilverHorse Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8291Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Bolter+Jan 7 2003, 08:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bolter @ Jan 7 2003, 08:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1) Duplication of structures. Building 2 bases in the early game is expensive.

    2) Remote Inf portals. This, IMHO, is the killer. You do not want your marines respawning in diferent parts of the map unless you have phase gates at each location.

    3) Momentum. If you spend resources in building a second base, you are not using your RPs offensivelly, thus relinquishing the initiative.

    4) Enemy response. As soon as Aliens find out that your main base is not the marine start, they'll assume that you'd rather hold on to a hive, and won't strongly contest an attack on marine start. If allowed, they'll waste all those structures you built there, but leave the inf spawns, so they can separate your respawn (if this happens, do yourself a favor and recycle them before your marines start getting angry)

    There is only one really effective way to go about this tactic: To not build anything at marine start, save for 1 inf portal, that will be recycled as soon as you have a CC up at the hive site.
    This requires that you marines survive the initial base rush, and that a suitable hive location is empty. After all, you don't want to end-up at an even worst base site, because the choice hive is alien start.
    Abandoning marine start altoghether, at the start of the game, is really the only way to go.
    No wasted RPs in duplication, no split in respawning marines, no loss of momentum (you ARE taking a hive right away).
    The only true con to this, is enemy response. When they find out where your new base is, they can concentrate their attacks in one location instead of two. The only way to turn this into an advantage is to move the fight to the 2nd hive imediately. Only one thing gives pause to Khaara: The prospect of not getting fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    1) I agree its expensive, but in the long run it saves res that you would be using to secure a hive.

    2) I recycle the entire original base the moment my other IP's come online.

    3) Moral provides enough momentum to crush an onos. When I comm, Winning is NOT my priority (unless its a clan match.) Making sure the marines are having fun. Through this, I usually do come out with a win, and very happy marines. Amazingly the aliens somehow are happy too <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    4) <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Epilogue.) They won't be going into the alien start, thats why I have the observatory built. Remember 3S: Sensor Sweep Saves.

    Epilogue Contd.) <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <-- Enemy Damage minimized.


    Once again, executed right, this is quite an interesting win.
  • AnimosityAnimosity Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11768Members
    although unfortunately against <b>decent</b> aliens, it wont work (ever).
  • SilverHorseSilverHorse Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8291Members
    Wrong. It works against all kinds. From the worst to the near-the-best. I'm not talking about your average pubber here.

    Anyways, post more tactics for Comm School. This isn't a place to flame tactics, its a place to post them. So lay off man and lets all help each other become better.
  • Alpha_1Alpha_1 Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11041Members, Constellation
    I think to be a good comm there are several things to keep in mind.

    1) Know the interface: this means you get the bot and learn on your own time or use the cheat mode in your own game. You do no one any good if you don't know the tools of your trade and where they are.

    2) Know the map: There are several locations and map pictures to choose from, you must know the map as a marine AND as a commander to properly command you troops. Especially if you need a specific location taken.

    3) Know your enemy: This means before you try commanding you should play as an alien to learn the strengths/weaknesses of that enemy. You can contain and overrun your enemy if you know the weak and strong points of their forms.

    4) Know the economy: If you don't know the cost for the equipment you will end up not being able to get the tools you need to do the job. Learn the cost of every structure, it's upgrade cost AND the cost of any related structures or prerequisites. For instance you can't build an armory til at least one infantry portal is active, you can't build an observatory til an armory is built, and you can't get a phase gate til all three of the previous structures are built.

    5) You are part of a team: This means you don't just order your men around, listen to what they say, don't do everything suggested by them but at least consider what they suggest. Learn from the suggestions they make.

    6) Keep your marines healthy: I hear many many marines say a smart com doesn't give out ammo or health, this is a flat out lie. A smart comm KNOWS when ammo and health should be dropped. Remember it takes time for marines to regen, keep tabs on how many and who is alive and where. Sure in the early game it is more cost effective to have a marine die and respawn BUT, consider the objective at hand. If you have a fortified location come under attack and do not keep the marines in that location healthy, it will cost a lot more in rebuilt structures to retake the location than it costs in health and ammo to keep them alive during that heavy assault.

    7) ASK before jumping in to comm. If you just jump in to comm without asking first you may find yourself out on your behind due to a vote eject. Ask before the round starts if possible but don't just jump in the chair unless no one else will within the first 15-30 seconds.

    There is a lot more but I think these are the more important ones to consider when first starting out. I would not suggest sticking to any one strategy for now since 1.04 is making such changes, you will find that 1.03 play and 1.04 play are a bit different.
  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
    edited January 2003
    I'd say the best way to learn to be a commander is to learn to be a good soldier first. Play tons of games and you'll see firsthand what works and what doesn't. Being on the ground, you may even have a good idea why. You'll know what it's like to face fades with nothing but your LMG and why you sometimes need to encourage players to build for you. You'll learn the maps, you'll learn how to play the aliens, and how their weaknesses can be exploited.

    After you learn that, you can learn the technicalities of commanding, and I think they'll come a lot easier.
  • T_RATT_RAT Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10967Members, Reinforced - Gold
    And if u r still worried try find a server that only has a few people who are fairly new, this way they wont mind as much. Thats how i learned pretty much because it gets a bit hectic sometimes. This way i got used to all the symbols for structues and the overview of the map, and learning to scan hives and which they should head for and so on.
  • FlatlineUTDFlatlineUTD Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7695Members
    I learned pretty quickly. The first game I ever played I jumped right into the CC, and ended up winning pretty soundly.

    I've always been much better at RTS games that FPS ones (tactical shooters like Ghost Recon or stealth games are an exception though), so commanding seemed to come pretty naturally.

    Prior RTS experience, in terms of both micro- and macromanagement, will help tremendously if you're interested in learning to command.
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