Docking and Veil5
Scatter
Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
Docking is a map that I not only refuse to play competitively, but also despise playing in pubs. Several attempts were made by dux to remedy this and I commend him for his work as much was improved, but still the map is unplayable. This is primarily because a) locker is far too close to court yard, b) courtyard is an unfavourable area for aliens, and c) terminal is far too close to courtyard allowing marines to instantly access courtyard.
The question is whether any further attempts are being made to rectify this or if the map has been abandoned? Several ideas were floating around but seemingly nothing has come of it so far.
The other issue is the five tech point version of veil that has been floating around forever but never released. Can we get this released as a non-official map if UWE are unwilling to release it as an official ?
The question is whether any further attempts are being made to rectify this or if the map has been abandoned? Several ideas were floating around but seemingly nothing has come of it so far.
The other issue is the five tech point version of veil that has been floating around forever but never released. Can we get this released as a non-official map if UWE are unwilling to release it as an official ?
Comments
I'm just slightly worried if the community that can't handle a map that doesn't play like summit would like Veil5 more than actual Veil.
*Make Courtyard a tech point. So it becomes a "Center tech point". Reduce the area a little to be able to create more alleys around. A warehouse style would do fine as it won't be a total change.
*Remove locker's tech point. reduce size of this room.
*Move cafeteria tech point to Bar
-Make bar bigger
That would remove the cafet/reception Tech point combo for marine (and direct access to bar and locker).
It would make Cafeteria a single RT that separates Bar tech point and Reception.
Looks like this:
Don't take care of distances. it's just a layout.
Blue = Room with RT
Yelow = TP+RT
Green = alleys connecting rooms
Alleys can be extended at will more than rooms. From east wing is stay somehow ok. Mapper will decide.
It could even work as it is now, if close spawns weren't possible. So no terminal - departures, no caf - lockers. But courtyard needs to become very alien friendly.
58% Aliens
http://ns2stats.com/map/map/3
Though it could really need some improvements, maint/stab are a bit easily harrased imho, and it resolves too much about locker = win (or actually, hold locker/dep as alien )
I agree. Though anything within 40-60 is good and 45-55 is perfect.
So it's fact vs opinion?
Also, I'm not a fan of landing pad being a very large and empty area under any circumstances. Without an RT, its just a huge room that lets aliens walk on the sky and camp underneath.
A 5 techpoint veil sounds really boring to me, though. Veil is one of my favorite maps and it's almost entirely because of the 4 techpoint + double layout.
Statistics mean nothing when incorrectly interpreted. For example, if we take your logic, black people are less intelligent than white people because they score lower in IQ tests, in general. However, if you control for socioeconomic status black people do equally as well. Of course it's not until you analyse the statistic of the general finding that you can surmise other reasons for the discrepancy.
Well I'd like to see the stats when two teams of advanced skill competing - I find the marines usually win and I'd expect that conjecture to be confirmed if tested.
That's one of the only reasons I do like docking. I can actually see the aliens cause there's some contrast for once. They aren't camouflaged in complicated textures with muddy colours. Instead there's a nice blue wall behind them so tracking skulks doesn't become a game of Where's Wally. Although I think a lot less of the map is like this now - I dunno.
Re: veil5. I think if it were to be released, they should retexture it with a new colour scheme. Just to make it look different, yet familiar, so it doesn't feel like playing the same ol' Veil all over again. Maybe this has already been done - I haven't played it.
small maps are marine favored in comp play purely because basic marines > basic skulks. (evidence is the scrims done on turtle - aside from base rushes, marines dominate that map.)
Oh and, yes i'm voting for having both versions of veil!
You mean Facts in the form of statistics which are easily misinterpreted to form even worse opinions than opinions derived from deep knowledge and experience of the game ?
There is alot of noise within those Statistics, such as noob comms, alien gorge/lerk rushes , marine rushes, poor meta, green players, afkers, trolls, stacked teams, wtf skilled players, voicecomm vs no voicecomm, teamwork vs no teamwork, comm leadership vs silent comm, etc. etc. etc. In other words, there are alot of games where marines are winning hands down, which are then taken away due to poor teamwork and communication ... and bilebomb.
On most servers you will see marines try to lock down lockers (or departures) and push east wing (or stability/bar/locker), this leaves aliens comfortable on 3-4 RT
Yet on servers where there is a higher level of play, we see what Ghosthree3 describes, which is where marines abuse the layout of docking in order to 'choke' aliens on 1 RT.
If aliens are in locker and marines are in terminal, pressure and/or phase in ball court and bar/cafe. (marines often arc from ball court)
If aliens are in gen and marines are in terminal, pressure and/or phase in stability and maint.
If aliens are in departures and marines are in cafe, pressure and/or phase in stability and terminal (relocate to terminal works)
(mines are a marines best friend when doing this hyper aggressive play)
I play on American and Australian servers, and i see this choking meta alot on the Australian servers, which is probably why they hate the map so much, as marines often dominate.
Forced Cafe start for marines, removal of central access corridor from cafe to courtyard, and removal of terminal TP.
Map
Haven't had a chance to play it yet, however. Also, read the description to avoid confusion.
Certainly looks interesting, but I'd suggest adding a resource point for Marines in Landing pad...
As Shriike said, looks like it would take too long for Marines to reach Terminal, and if Aliens get there first it can be really easy for them to defend the door from Landing pad.
Or you could try putting Central access back in and removing the doorway that connects to coutryard. (giving Marines two ways to push for Terminal) - Personally I think just adding another RT in Landing pad would do the trick.
Does look like it would be very interesting to try. Hopefully one of the servers I frequent will add this map to the rotation.
This, on the other hand, is a nightmare for the marines. The aliens just need to defend a few chokepoints (doorways from bar to locker and from terminal to courtyard) at the beginning of the game and comfortably cap everything behind their lines without the marines being able to push anywhere.
That layout is almost Veil. But without a node at Skylights (Landing Pad), with tech points at East and West Junction (Locker Room & Terminal) and without any nodes at Nano (Courtyard).