- It use the average KD/R of the last 3 rounds for the other players to mix the teams.
K/D doesn't mean all that much in pub NS2.
I spend all my day making enemy commander's life a nightmare. I kill harvesters like I'm poisoned and there's antidote in them, I suicide bile ten times a round like if there are seventy two gorgettes waiting for me in heaven, I'm bombing upgrades like if it is a revenge for Pearl Harbor. Most of the times I end up having 1/30 kill/death ratio, but help my team to win on macro level and leave enemy far behind. None of the currently existing systems (hive, ns2stats) appreciate that. Only people you play with regularly do.
That's just wrong.The Elo rating is only based on W/L and the enemies Elo ratings.
- It use the average KD/R of the last 3 rounds for the other players to mix the teams.
K/D doesn't mean all that much in pub NS2.
I spend all my day making enemy commander's life a nightmare. I kill harvesters like I'm poisoned and there's antidote in them, I suicide bile ten times a round like if there are seventy two gorgettes waiting for me in heaven, I'm bombing upgrades like if it is a revenge for Pearl Harbor. Most of the times I end up having 1/30 kill/death ratio, but help my team to win on macro level and leave enemy far behind. None of the currently existing systems (hive, ns2stats) appreciate that. Only people you play with regularly do.
That's just wrong.The Elo rating is only based on W/L and the enemies Elo ratings.
I'm going to quote OP for you:
- It use the average KD/R of the last 3 rounds for the other players to mix the teams.
You are mixin 2 diffenernt things here:
- The Elo rating is based on W/L and the enemies Elo ratings.
- The shine elo random use this rating PLUS the average KD/R of the last 3 rounds for the other players to mix the teams.
K/D doesn't mean all that much in pub NS2.
I spend all my day making enemy commander's life a nightmare. I kill harvesters like I'm poisoned and there's antidote in them, I suicide bile ten times a round like if there are seventy two gorgettes waiting for me in heaven, I'm bombing upgrades like if it is a revenge for Pearl Harbor. Most of the times I end up having 1/30 kill/death ratio, but help my team to win on macro level and leave enemy far behind. None of the currently existing systems (hive, ns2stats) appreciate that. Only people you play with regularly do.
Lol, "oh no the 2 RT chomping guys are on the same team!!! Last round they killed 4 RTs each, we are dooooommmmmeddd!!!!"
You want to be feared? Instead of going 1/30 killing RTs, go 20-5 killing RTs and the person who comes to save them.
Saying K/D doesn't mean much in pub implies that said person sits in hive killing that AFK player... The fact is that in order to go 40-2 you need to draw them to you as positioning is key. A good player may go 30-13 by sprinting around killing crap players but eventually he will get cornered... The good smart player positions himself such that he can cause max damage to the other teams macro, such that he draws a maximum response, then kills them all.
The guy biting an RT that I go kill is a minor annoyance, the guy biting an RT that kills me is the nightmare.
K/D doesn't mean all that much in pub NS2.
I spend all my day making enemy commander's life a nightmare. I kill harvesters like I'm poisoned and there's antidote in them, I suicide bile ten times a round like if there are seventy two gorgettes waiting for me in heaven, I'm bombing upgrades like if it is a revenge for Pearl Harbor. Most of the times I end up having 1/30 kill/death ratio, but help my team to win on macro level and leave enemy far behind. None of the currently existing systems (hive, ns2stats) appreciate that. Only people you play with regularly do.
Lol, "oh no the 2 RT chomping guys are on the same team!!! Last round they killed 4 RTs each, we are dooooommmmmeddd!!!!"
You want to be feared? Instead of going 1/30 killing RTs, go 20-5 killing RTs and the person who comes to save them.
Tell this to teams that concede after I visit their base or to comms that rage quit after 10th RT is down. (No joke)
I search and exploit any weaknesses that enemy team might have. This is serious business.
OP, your original post was retarded. I'm not even sure why people voted it up except for preconceived notions and elitism.
"Oh no, UWE is adding something new! Balanced games are going to ruin everything."
Just because a small fraction of servers use the NS2STATS mod to balance their game, it does not prove your point for several reasons:
1. It only calculates player Elo while using that specific server, or at least servers with NS2STATS on them. This means it is going to be highly inaccurate unless all the players have been using that server exclusively for quite some time (very unlikely) An official Elo-tracker would include all matches played.
2. Your small anecdotal experience with the flawed third-party matchmaking system that hardly anyone uses is not evidence of anything.
3. "Vote Random" is not a method for balancing at all. Leaving the game balance to pure chance is obviously going to produce bad results most of the time.
Finally, on your point about people leaving and joining servers mid-game, thus messing up the "balance" that was present at the beginning, decent matchmaking systems in modern FPS games punish leavers severely. You can't just leave a game when you're losing and screw your team over because you were bored. This only applies when using the matchmaking system, not when playing in pubs.
You can not deny that the Elo system works for modern FPS games, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. It has been used exclusively, even in team games with many more factors than NS2 has, with a high degree of success. Once again, your personal anecdotal experiences with a flawed 3rd party Elo system that hardly anybody uses for balancing their games is not evidence of your claims. NS2 would benefit from matchmaking, just like every other popular FPS that uses it has.
Tell this to teams that concede after I visit their base or to comms that rage quit after 10th RT is down. (No joke)
I search and exploit any weaknesses that enemy team might have. This is serious business.
If a player who is 1-30 is winning the game, id go looking for a better server too.
The RT killer is a important part of the team, but it can be accomplished by a player of any skill level. Any 30-1 player can do what your doing. When you balance a team you balance around skill. You don't balance a team around a task (especially a low skill level task).
Biting an RT may be strategic and vital, but it is not a measure of skill...
Tell this to teams that concede after I visit their base or to comms that rage quit after 10th RT is down. (No joke)
I search and exploit any weaknesses that enemy team might have. This is serious business.
If a player who is 1-30 is winning the game, id go looking for a better server too.
The RT killer is a important part of the team, but it can be accomplished by a player of any skill level. Any 30-1 player can do what your doing. When you balance a team you balance around skill. You don't balance a team around a task (especially a low skill level task).
Biting an RT may be strategic and vital, but it is not a measure of skill...
See, you are focusing around one thing that I mentioned. Anyone can bite RTs. I am capable of taking out all alien upgrades, solo killing a hive (only in JP friendly rooms, tho), destroying marine base with bile or at least take the power out, etc. But I don't do it mindlessly, like 'Oh we got jetpacks woohoo hive bomb time' *dead*. I plan these big things carefully, I scout enemy territory (drifters, whips, sentries, observatories, frequently visited locations - I take into account everything to get undetected and undamaged), I wait for the right moment, i.e. in case of gorge I can wait for beacon or big push to alien hive (I waited about 3 minutes yesterday in terminal for the right time then jumped out and bombed everything at marine main base), in case of JP GL marine, if there is a descent fade or lerk, I'm focusing on hunting it down first with my team, they I get equipment for my evil deeds. I pay a lot of attention to kill->death messages, as these help you to know who is spawning at enemy base, let's not even mention that I read minimap all the time. I'm gathering all the intel available and when the time is right, I strike with high success rate.
I can go gorge in strange places like pillar in terminal or pipe in locker early game, and do nothing but run back and forth and taunt and spitting occasionally , and 2-3 marines will be standing there shooting at me and tossing grenades for few minutes. I get 0 points for it. And you might think it's silly, but it's like 3 marines dead for the rest of the world - not pushing, not building. And they know if they turn around, I might start biling their base, so they can't really leave. And some of their teammates get mad at them for wasting time, and then they don't coordinate as well.
So, instead of learning how to aim, I learned some NS2 psychology and tactics.
If you see me in game for first time, you'd think I came from last sale. My skills are just different. And those are hardly measurable.
Edit: I joined 'other' server today for my first game, which was HBZ, with some of the pro guys around. Because maybe people on my regular server are noobs. And that's exactly what happened: killed some structures, killed 3 spurs early game (in 3 runs, yeah, I don't mind dying), killed a hive solo (you can see marines on minimap when hive was killed, they walked in just in time) then all the shells. Also, notice my poor K/D, Demolition man award, Aliens surrendered message and everyone ragequit, these should prove what I said earlier. And we were not stomping enemy, just a 2 minutes before we fully lost 2nd base at pipeline and then power at our main base at control.
Lol, I see a team with an average 2-1 k:d ratio, 140tres, duel exo's which means you have 2 chairs + the tech you just took... The team did not rage the game ended... And you my friend seem to be carried by your team...
Edit,I also see 140tres and no weapon 3... Lol for a stomp...
OP, your original post was retarded. I'm not even sure why people voted it up except for preconceived notions and elitism.
"Oh no, UWE is adding something new! Balanced games are going to ruin everything."
Just because a small fraction of servers use the NS2STATS mod to balance their game, it does not prove your point for several reasons:
1. It only calculates player Elo while using that specific server, or at least servers with NS2STATS on them. This means it is going to be highly inaccurate unless all the players have been using that server exclusively for quite some time (very unlikely) An official Elo-tracker would include all matches played.
2. Your small anecdotal experience with the flawed third-party matchmaking system that hardly anyone uses is not evidence of anything.
3. "Vote Random" is not a method for balancing at all. Leaving the game balance to pure chance is obviously going to produce bad results most of the time.
Finally, on your point about people leaving and joining servers mid-game, thus messing up the "balance" that was present at the beginning, decent matchmaking systems in modern FPS games punish leavers severely. You can't just leave a game when you're losing and screw your team over because you were bored. This only applies when using the matchmaking system, not when playing in pubs.
You can not deny that the Elo system works for modern FPS games, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. It has been used exclusively, even in team games with many more factors than NS2 has, with a high degree of success. Once again, your personal anecdotal experiences with a flawed 3rd party Elo system that hardly anybody uses for balancing their games is not evidence of your claims. NS2 would benefit from matchmaking, just like every other popular FPS that uses it has.
About the official ranking system, you would suggest that it covers all servers yet it won't. All servers with any mods are exluded if they don't use ns2stats or bns2 atm (yeah ns2stats enables hive stats).
See here for hive enabled servers: http://hive.naturalselection2.com/servers/whitelist
Now look at the ns2 server list: http://ns2stats.com/server/index
If you take out all those official servers ns2stats covers 80% of the hive enabled servers. As the hive uses a unknown own ranking formula, ns2stats is sadly the best ranking system we have atm.
Ways to address this in the future: Either get more server admins to run ns2stats or wait for the offical matchmaking.
About 2/3 ns2stats.com has the largest database of ns2 stats out there and was one of the most used mods in the beta. Yet the server pool was flooded with alot servers which refused to use any kind of server mod because of the mod system uwe used in the past. (Yellow colour)
Either way, instead of just complaining do something to change things.
And where you see depara saying that he is against changes. He just shows the userbase how modders and server admins prepared a solution for the "stacking". In fact we would love to use a official system. Yet i don't see the hive at that point. Hopefully this will change.
What is your point the shuffle function sees your k/d as 1. Your elo ranking did got raised because you won and your ns2stats.com rating did go up even more because you got 2 awards and dealed that much dmg (44k not bad)
Well, if half team quit on match end is normal on this server, the game ended normally. 'Player who is 1-30 is winning the game' still.
Edit,I also see 140tres and no weapon 3. Lol for a stomp...
You didn't notice 29 minute mark. Which altogether means that our comm was kinda meh.
Well, forget it, it is just first match played today as an example.
What I'm trying to say, there is stuff that you can't measure. If you killed a hive, maybe you were one of nine marines shooting it and landed last hit. If you did all 100% damage to the hive, maybe other eight marines were killing anyone that was getting close. If you was alone in the room and did 100% damage, maybe there were arcs in pipeline and exos in sub, and there were no aliens to defend cargo. So, in order to add a skill point for killing a hive solo while chased by five skulks and one fade, game must be sure that it wasn't luck and perform so many checks (that are probably impossible to code), your pc would explode.
I know few people who can execute this as well, and I consider it an actual skill, that involves lots of knowledge, planning and some reflexes. But all we get in the end is +30 score that barely affects your position on scoreboard.
And you won't even get 1 score point for distracting enemy. If you kill marine, he will spawn at base. And you don't want him to spawn at base, because there are some gorges nearby getting ready to destroy it. But you don't want him to kill that harvester around the corner which is at 200hp. So you just grab his attention, and he is not killing harvester nor defending base after respawn, he is trying to kill you and save himself, which is the best solution in current moment for your team. It's not even a skill, but it did increase chances of successfully bile bombing base and allowed harvester to pump some more res, while killing or ignoring marine would only lead to one of those. No noob would make such decision. You can't measure stuff like that.
So it only distributes people with K>D, and all the others are treated equally? I don't get it anymore
If that's so, I'm perfectly fine with it: 1. Distribute W>L, players that must be contributing much in any way 2. Add some killers (K>D) 3. Randomize the rest
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
So you think YOU won the game by killing the hive @ endgame with an JP/GL combo not the guy with the 23-8 kills or the other players with positive stats?
Cmon, are you kidding me?
Without the shooting skills of your teammates you never had this equipment.
Some type of ranking system could have saved this game. Drives players and hours. CSGO after implementing the ranked MM system has seen over a 100% increase in player base. Such a simple idea that keeps players coming back because you suddenly increase the replay value for competitive minded players. (NS2 btw probably has some of the most competitive players of any game)
NS2Stats Elo ranking based. This obviously requires NS2Stats to be installed. It will use the Elo ranking saved for each player from NS2Stats to place the top 8 players evenly between the teams, then use the fallback method to sort the remaining players.
Fallback method on most servers is either:
Past scores based. When a round ends, all player's scores are saved. When the random vote is called later, the past round's scores are used to balance the teams. Anyone with no past score on record or with a past score of 0 is randomised.
or
Past KDR based. Same as the score based, except it stores and uses each player's kill to death ratio to balance the teams. Anyone with a past KDR of 0 is randomised. Assists count for half a kill.
Still vote random (aka Shuffle) also supports:
Pure random.
or
Using the game's built in skill ranking. This ranking is tracked in some servers and is a fairly reliable data source for balancing. However, the game sometimes has issues getting the ranking data and may leave everyone with a 0 skill rank. This is a problem with the game, not Shine.
K/D doesn't mean all that much in pub NS2.
I spend all my day making enemy commander's life a nightmare. I kill harvesters like I'm poisoned and there's antidote in them, I suicide bile ten times a round like if there are seventy two gorgettes waiting for me in heaven, I'm bombing upgrades like if it is a revenge for Pearl Harbor. Most of the times I end up having 1/30 kill/death ratio, but help my team to win on macro level and leave enemy far behind. None of the currently existing systems (hive, ns2stats) appreciate that. Only people you play with regularly do.
Lol, "oh no the 2 RT chomping guys are on the same team!!! Last round they killed 4 RTs each, we are dooooommmmmeddd!!!!"
You want to be feared? Instead of going 1/30 killing RTs, go 20-5 killing RTs and the person who comes to save them.
Saying K/D doesn't mean much in pub implies that said person sits in hive killing that AFK player... The fact is that in order to go 40-2 you need to draw them to you as positioning is key. A good player may go 30-13 by sprinting around killing crap players but eventually he will get cornered... The good smart player positions himself such that he can cause max damage to the other teams macro, such that he draws a maximum response, then kills them all.
The guy biting an RT that I go kill is a minor annoyance, the guy biting an RT that kills me is the nightmare.
+1 For multi round K/D based balance...
it also depends on when you do the killing. I'll gladly take a couple deaths if I cshave off a third of their Rez income, but it's not really worth much if they have 4 other harvesters going.
So you think YOU won the game by killing the hive @ endgame with an JP/GL combo not the guy with the 23-8 kills or the other players with positive stats?
Cmon, are you kidding me?
Without the shooting skills of your teammates you never had this equipment.
But i must say thank you for proving my original post.
The team with the better stats (KDR) won the game.
He still won the game. Yes, his way might have been pathed by others, but still he was the one ending the game. Often you still lose with high kdr players, because they can't get their shit together and just end the game when they have the chance. That is why game sense is a very important skill to have. You can make up for a lot of pskill with smart (team) play.
So you think YOU won the game by killing the hive @ endgame with an JP/GL combo not the guy with the 23-8 kills or the other players with positive stats?
Cmon, are you kidding me?
Without the shooting skills of your teammates you never had this equipment.
But i must say thank you for proving my original post.
The team with the better stats (KDR) won the game.
He still won the game. Yes, his way might have been pathed by others, but still he was the one ending the game. Often you still lose with high kdr players, because they can't get their shit together and just end the game when they have the chance. That is why game sense is a very important skill to have. You can make up for a lot of pskill with smart (team) play.
there is a strong correlation between good k/d and game sense. mostly because there is a causative association between both those and with total time played. typically the team with the better k/d average will also have the more accrued hours between their players, and better game sense as a result. just recently I outkilled my entire team... but it didn't really matter because their team outkilled me. think I went 23 and 10, but their top scorers we're going 20 and 10 too, and there were 3 of them.
So you think YOU won the game by killing the hive @ endgame with an JP/GL combo not the guy with the 23-8 kills or the other players with positive stats?
Cmon, are you kidding me?
Without the shooting skills of your teammates you never had this equipment.
But i must say thank you for proving my original post.
The team with the better stats (KDR) won the game.
Or maybe when I killed three spurs, I delayed leap for few more minutes, which really made difference for those concentrating on kills, plus celerity itself.
Or maybe if I didn't finish hive at that time, they'd do their next move and destroy us completely.
We had literally zero attacks on enemy hives. My teammates could probably not finish the game ever.
- It use the average KD/R of the last 3 rounds for the other players to mix the teams.
K/D doesn't mean all that much in pub NS2.
I spend all my day making enemy commander's life a nightmare. I kill harvesters like I'm poisoned and there's antidote in them, I suicide bile ten times a round like if there are seventy two gorgettes waiting for me in heaven, I'm bombing upgrades like if it is a revenge for Pearl Harbor. Most of the times I end up having 1/30 kill/death ratio, but help my team to win on macro level and leave enemy far behind. None of the currently existing systems (hive, ns2stats) appreciate that. Only people you play with regularly do.
That's just wrong.The Elo rating is only based on W/L and the enemies Elo ratings.
Elo rating being only based on W/L really is the way to go imo. It works well from what I've seen and would probably benefit from a larger pool of servers.
Sorry to revive an old thread, I just had an idea that I think fits into the ELO "anti-stack" discussion.
I would like to see how a "Sort players by hours played" shuffle performs. So the script would fetch the "hours played NS2" from steam from each player, and just sort based on that.
Of course hours played does increase the "skill" differently for each player, but still, I think it might be a better system than the current ELO systems.
Is there anybody with the tools to test something like this? I dont know which mod it is that offers the ELO shuffle. I think it would be the easiest way to test it there.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has already been done in a mod somewhere. It's certainly not a bad approach (although not a completely fool-proof one either). I think you'll find that whatever's in the works for skill calculation has the potential to work a fair bit better than a sort-by-hours-played.
Although sorting by hours played is certainly an elegant solution, it also isn't the most effective (tho I guess it's better than anything we've got now). I would just wait for moultano's thing to see the light of day:
DecoyJoin Date: 2012-09-11Member: 159037Members, Super Administrators, Playtest Lead, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts, Retired Community Developer
@CmdrKeen I don't think that's a good idea at all I know of a number of players who have 1,000+ hours played who are really just terrible. Then there's players with 500 hours who just stomp. It really isn't a good way to sort.
Regardless, there is a new hive skill system in the works. It's been discussed a number of times. It should be going into the next build (thank goodness). We haven't yet had anyone come up with a good way to abuse it, so hopefully it will go well!
@d0pedd0g - If you check the public trello (Specifically here https://trello.com/c/9r7Le7Aj), it's noted that we are in the process of getting a new Skill system up and running for build 267. We can't patch on a weekly basis, unfortunately. I'd rather playtest things and playtest them well than release something broken
PS - What is with everyone reviving these threads that are literally years old today? Make a new thread!
Comments
That's just wrong.The Elo rating is only based on W/L and the enemies Elo ratings.
I'm going to quote OP for you:
You are mixin 2 diffenernt things here:
- The Elo rating is based on W/L and the enemies Elo ratings.
- The shine elo random use this rating PLUS the average KD/R of the last 3 rounds for the other players to mix the teams.
Lol, "oh no the 2 RT chomping guys are on the same team!!! Last round they killed 4 RTs each, we are dooooommmmmeddd!!!!"
You want to be feared? Instead of going 1/30 killing RTs, go 20-5 killing RTs and the person who comes to save them.
Saying K/D doesn't mean much in pub implies that said person sits in hive killing that AFK player... The fact is that in order to go 40-2 you need to draw them to you as positioning is key. A good player may go 30-13 by sprinting around killing crap players but eventually he will get cornered... The good smart player positions himself such that he can cause max damage to the other teams macro, such that he draws a maximum response, then kills them all.
The guy biting an RT that I go kill is a minor annoyance, the guy biting an RT that kills me is the nightmare.
+1 For multi round K/D based balance...
Not exactly how it works but basically yes. It also really depends on against who you win or loose.
@maD_maX_ its already takes the last 3 K/A/Ds by default (server admins can change that)
More Infos about the shuffle plugin used by shine: https://github.com/Person8880/Shine/wiki/Vote-Random
Tell this to teams that concede after I visit their base or to comms that rage quit after 10th RT is down. (No joke)
I search and exploit any weaknesses that enemy team might have. This is serious business.
"Oh no, UWE is adding something new! Balanced games are going to ruin everything."
Just because a small fraction of servers use the NS2STATS mod to balance their game, it does not prove your point for several reasons:
1. It only calculates player Elo while using that specific server, or at least servers with NS2STATS on them. This means it is going to be highly inaccurate unless all the players have been using that server exclusively for quite some time (very unlikely) An official Elo-tracker would include all matches played.
2. Your small anecdotal experience with the flawed third-party matchmaking system that hardly anyone uses is not evidence of anything.
3. "Vote Random" is not a method for balancing at all. Leaving the game balance to pure chance is obviously going to produce bad results most of the time.
Finally, on your point about people leaving and joining servers mid-game, thus messing up the "balance" that was present at the beginning, decent matchmaking systems in modern FPS games punish leavers severely. You can't just leave a game when you're losing and screw your team over because you were bored. This only applies when using the matchmaking system, not when playing in pubs.
You can not deny that the Elo system works for modern FPS games, MOBAs, RTS games, etc. It has been used exclusively, even in team games with many more factors than NS2 has, with a high degree of success. Once again, your personal anecdotal experiences with a flawed 3rd party Elo system that hardly anybody uses for balancing their games is not evidence of your claims. NS2 would benefit from matchmaking, just like every other popular FPS that uses it has.
If a player who is 1-30 is winning the game, id go looking for a better server too.
The RT killer is a important part of the team, but it can be accomplished by a player of any skill level. Any 30-1 player can do what your doing. When you balance a team you balance around skill. You don't balance a team around a task (especially a low skill level task).
Biting an RT may be strategic and vital, but it is not a measure of skill...
if only more pub stompers went gorge.... IDC abt op gorges lol that would b awesome. start it up currentily!
I can go gorge in strange places like pillar in terminal or pipe in locker early game, and do nothing but run back and forth and taunt and spitting occasionally , and 2-3 marines will be standing there shooting at me and tossing grenades for few minutes. I get 0 points for it. And you might think it's silly, but it's like 3 marines dead for the rest of the world - not pushing, not building. And they know if they turn around, I might start biling their base, so they can't really leave. And some of their teammates get mad at them for wasting time, and then they don't coordinate as well.
So, instead of learning how to aim, I learned some NS2 psychology and tactics.
If you see me in game for first time, you'd think I came from last sale. My skills are just different. And those are hardly measurable.
Edit: I joined 'other' server today for my first game, which was HBZ, with some of the pro guys around. Because maybe people on my regular server are noobs. And that's exactly what happened: killed some structures, killed 3 spurs early game (in 3 runs, yeah, I don't mind dying), killed a hive solo (you can see marines on minimap when hive was killed, they walked in just in time) then all the shells. Also, notice my poor K/D, Demolition man award, Aliens surrendered message and everyone ragequit, these should prove what I said earlier. And we were not stomping enemy, just a 2 minutes before we fully lost 2nd base at pipeline and then power at our main base at control.
Edit,I also see 140tres and no weapon 3... Lol for a stomp...
About the official ranking system, you would suggest that it covers all servers yet it won't. All servers with any mods are exluded if they don't use ns2stats or bns2 atm (yeah ns2stats enables hive stats).
See here for hive enabled servers: http://hive.naturalselection2.com/servers/whitelist
Now look at the ns2 server list: http://ns2stats.com/server/index
If you take out all those official servers ns2stats covers 80% of the hive enabled servers. As the hive uses a unknown own ranking formula, ns2stats is sadly the best ranking system we have atm.
Ways to address this in the future: Either get more server admins to run ns2stats or wait for the offical matchmaking.
About 2/3 ns2stats.com has the largest database of ns2 stats out there and was one of the most used mods in the beta. Yet the server pool was flooded with alot servers which refused to use any kind of server mod because of the mod system uwe used in the past. (Yellow colour)
Either way, instead of just complaining do something to change things.
And where you see depara saying that he is against changes. He just shows the userbase how modders and server admins prepared a solution for the "stacking". In fact we would love to use a official system. Yet i don't see the hive at that point. Hopefully this will change.
@xen32 about your edit:
What is your point the shuffle function sees your k/d as 1. Your elo ranking did got raised because you won and your ns2stats.com rating did go up even more because you got 2 awards and dealed that much dmg (44k not bad)
Well, if half team quit on match end is normal on this server, the game ended normally. 'Player who is 1-30 is winning the game' still.
You didn't notice 29 minute mark. Which altogether means that our comm was kinda meh.
Well, forget it, it is just first match played today as an example.
What I'm trying to say, there is stuff that you can't measure. If you killed a hive, maybe you were one of nine marines shooting it and landed last hit. If you did all 100% damage to the hive, maybe other eight marines were killing anyone that was getting close. If you was alone in the room and did 100% damage, maybe there were arcs in pipeline and exos in sub, and there were no aliens to defend cargo. So, in order to add a skill point for killing a hive solo while chased by five skulks and one fade, game must be sure that it wasn't luck and perform so many checks (that are probably impossible to code), your pc would explode.
I know few people who can execute this as well, and I consider it an actual skill, that involves lots of knowledge, planning and some reflexes. But all we get in the end is +30 score that barely affects your position on scoreboard.
And you won't even get 1 score point for distracting enemy. If you kill marine, he will spawn at base. And you don't want him to spawn at base, because there are some gorges nearby getting ready to destroy it. But you don't want him to kill that harvester around the corner which is at 200hp. So you just grab his attention, and he is not killing harvester nor defending base after respawn, he is trying to kill you and save himself, which is the best solution in current moment for your team. It's not even a skill, but it did increase chances of successfully bile bombing base and allowed harvester to pump some more res, while killing or ignoring marine would only lead to one of those. No noob would make such decision. You can't measure stuff like that.
@GhoulofGSG9 So it only distributes people with K>D, and all the others are treated equally? I don't get it anymore
If that's so, I'm perfectly fine with it: 1. Distribute W>L, players that must be contributing much in any way 2. Add some killers (K>D) 3. Randomize the rest
Cmon, are you kidding me?
Without the shooting skills of your teammates you never had this equipment.
Just look @ the scores and KDR of the alienteam:
http://ns2stats.com/round/round/145666
But i must say thank you for proving my original post.
The team with the better stats (KDR) won the game.
The K/D based method uses in real this formula (K+0.5*A)/D to shuffle players.
From the Shine Wiki:
Fallback method on most servers is either:
or
Still vote random (aka Shuffle) also supports:
or
it also depends on when you do the killing. I'll gladly take a couple deaths if I cshave off a third of their Rez income, but it's not really worth much if they have 4 other harvesters going.
He still won the game. Yes, his way might have been pathed by others, but still he was the one ending the game. Often you still lose with high kdr players, because they can't get their shit together and just end the game when they have the chance. That is why game sense is a very important skill to have. You can make up for a lot of pskill with smart (team) play.
there is a strong correlation between good k/d and game sense. mostly because there is a causative association between both those and with total time played. typically the team with the better k/d average will also have the more accrued hours between their players, and better game sense as a result. just recently I outkilled my entire team... but it didn't really matter because their team outkilled me. think I went 23 and 10, but their top scorers we're going 20 and 10 too, and there were 3 of them.
Or maybe when I killed three spurs, I delayed leap for few more minutes, which really made difference for those concentrating on kills, plus celerity itself.
Or maybe if I didn't finish hive at that time, they'd do their next move and destroy us completely.
We had literally zero attacks on enemy hives. My teammates could probably not finish the game ever.
especially so for aliens. good aim doesn't get you very far as a skulk.
Elo rating being only based on W/L really is the way to go imo. It works well from what I've seen and would probably benefit from a larger pool of servers.
I would like to see how a "Sort players by hours played" shuffle performs. So the script would fetch the "hours played NS2" from steam from each player, and just sort based on that.
Of course hours played does increase the "skill" differently for each player, but still, I think it might be a better system than the current ELO systems.
Is there anybody with the tools to test something like this? I dont know which mod it is that offers the ELO shuffle. I think it would be the easiest way to test it there.
Although sorting by hours played is certainly an elegant solution, it also isn't the most effective (tho I guess it's better than anything we've got now). I would just wait for moultano's thing to see the light of day:
Regardless, there is a new hive skill system in the works. It's been discussed a number of times. It should be going into the next build (thank goodness). We haven't yet had anyone come up with a good way to abuse it, so hopefully it will go well!
@d0pedd0g - If you check the public trello (Specifically here https://trello.com/c/9r7Le7Aj), it's noted that we are in the process of getting a new Skill system up and running for build 267. We can't patch on a weekly basis, unfortunately. I'd rather playtest things and playtest them well than release something broken
PS - What is with everyone reviving these threads that are literally years old today? Make a new thread!