I have a suggested improvement for the "virtual resource node" idea: put a cap of 50 (?) resources on the node. That way it can't be shot up to hundreds for the rest of the game, but the Kharaa still aren't screwed when one or two skulk leave.
One point about the idea of only giving the resources back only if they leave the server: I don't know how many times I have left a server for whatever reason, only to try and reconnect a few seconds later and find it is already full.
Each slot on the alien team gets resources. Empty slots get nothing. If a slot empties, those resources are kept there until someone joins and takes that slot. That joining alien gets only those resources to start out.
Questions to ask: <ul> <li> What if a gorge with full res leaves? When someone takes that slot, should the extra resources go into his personal queue or the hive pool? <li> Can this be exploited? <li> Is it better than what we have now? <li> Is it better than other suggestions? </ul>
Also, do the aliens actually start with 10 per alien? When I play it's usually 10per then 33 for one alien. Should the max starting res for aliens be capped at 100?
edit: clarified the first question, added question #3
<!--QuoteBegin--Vicentegrad II+Jan 6 2003, 11:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Vicentegrad II @ Jan 6 2003, 11:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->pardon my idiocy, but is Umbra more or less effective in 1.04b?
5/6 shots absorbed vs the old 6/7 shots
uhh....any mathemagicians in here?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> it's about 3% less effective
If I may mention something, instead of destroying the hole batch of ressourses making it extreemely unfair to the Kharaa if they have a gorge with 78 rps waiting to build a hive and leaves wich now would excuse the language screw the alien team all you have to do is this. When a player leaves the game for good not returning to the ready room you give backk all the rps to the aliens but when he / she goes to the ready room all you do is remove all his rps kills and stats never to be returned again and the game continues.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mouse+Jan 5 2003, 09:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mouse @ Jan 5 2003, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->how does it make the team suffer? Each alien has an individual RP pool, that only he can use. If you think about it, why should the remaining aliens have access to a RP pool that they wouldn't have had access to if the player had stayed?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> resources the alien team gets from resource towers first goes to a team resource pool. it is from this single pool that ALL aliens drain from. gorges get 3 shares, while the other classes get 1 share. if an alien stores resources and does nothing with them, then leaves... i think it's obvious how the team suffers. those resources could've allowed the team to build/use them to evolve.
but putting that aside, say this alien was saving up for fade resources. they get to 43 and suddenly get disconnected. this player had the potential to assist the alien team greatly. instead, this alien loses all these resources upon reconnect, thus the entire team loses 43 resources. the marines get the advantage. there goes that wonderful balance!
Again, play on servers where there aren't exploit-using lamers or servers where there are admins who ban for that stuff.
Very simple. The reason resources get returned to the pool is quite plain and simple and it's there for that reason. The fact that it can be abused doesn't mean it HAS to be abused nor should it be. IOW, DEAL WITH IT AND STOP GRIEFING.
<!--QuoteBegin--0range+Jan 5 2003, 05:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (0range @ Jan 5 2003, 05:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->heres the solution to the alien resource problem imho:
if someone readyrooms they take their resource with them.. Its not like they can go to marines right? If they disconnect from server then all their resource goes to the alien team.. So the only way to exploit this is to constantly reconnect to a server... That would take a long time and i dont think many of the exploiters out there have the patience to do that...
Anyone see flaws in this? To me, this seems like the perfect solution and i thought of it all by myself <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> mommy would be proud<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually your idea is influenced by moultano...
This idea of a secondary 'storage' for 'leftover' resources is actually a good one, but doesn't really do anything to stop the exploit.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>Once more, the exploit is not a Skulk with 33/33 resources!</b></span>
The exploit is when a map first starts, and everyone gets 10 resources, <b>every time they join the aliens team!</b>
That results in an exploiter being able to 'stuff' hundreds of resources into the alien hive in the first five or six seconds of the game. <b>That</b> is the exploit.
Resource sharing isn't the problem, it's blocking someone from joining the aliens team repeatedly when a map has first started, causing near-infinite resources immediately, that is the problem.
somebody had the cute idea of 100 resources to start. Unfortunately, whenever I don't go alien on the larger servers and try to join marines, I end up going alien 10 seconds later because the marine portal looks like some sort of college-grade orgy... Voogru's resource sharing theory would theoretically stop all but the hardcore exploiters from doing it, but short of removing the inital 10 resources, it's impossible to fix without destroying all of the resources
Kudos go out to the 100 resource idea all players that leave leave resources for players that join to use (but still exploitable, except that the player that joins gets 33 resources, goes gorge, and builds a nozzle in the first minute) the "kill'em all" theory of resource destruction.
There is no comparable resource problem for the marine.. I'm pretty sure the comm won't miss the 1 RP spent on all marines at the beginning.. perhaps some malicious person could rejoin the team 100 times and burn it all up? sounds pretty useless. Well, I have class tomorrow, time for bed.
Rico wrote: Its a nice idea but it wouldn't really work. Why? Because Aliens would still be getting free resource points, not to mention the equivalent of an invincible node (literally).
So after this, aliens get a steady income of resources, even if they have no nodes, and the marines cant do anything about it.
So very true would be unfair. The only way is take there res off them when they try to press f 4, cant be that hard is it?
"Find a server without the exploiter" and "get off pubs, pubs suck" aren't viable options for most players - few of us our so priviledged to have access to a private server or a clan, so we're forced to play on pubs with people we barely know. Do you want to induct me into your clan? Put your money where your mouth is. Offer all us poor saps stuck on pubs a place to play fairly - I think you'll change your tune fast instead of ponying up.
You saw what happened with the 'stopcommandermode' exploit - it ruined all public servers until it was fixed (and the fix isn't even widespread yet), and the resource exploit will do the same soon enough. I don't think Flayra's goal was to only have this game be fair and fun on private servers, but on ALL servers for all players.
People joining and leaving the server all the time... kick or ban them. Where is the problem? 33/33 res from skulk or the starting res does not matter. Both are exploitable. Just think about the difference between public games and clanwars. Just imagine a game (clanwar, maybe league game) 8vs8. The game runs 3 minutes then an alien player drops from the server. This would cause great problems if the res are given to the other aliens so the gorge could build the hive very fast. But it would also give an advantage to the marines because the aliens lose res (what happens if the gorge drops with 79 res? - game over). There must be a solution to solve this problem. Probably the res should be saved until the player returns and given back to him. If he does not return after 3 minutes the res go back to the alien team resource. Every player who joins the game after its beginning does not get any res. Not the best solution but better than giving one team a big advantage.
At least I don't think there is a way to realy solve this problem with the current alien res system...
I'm not at all positive that the 33/33 Skulk situation isn't an exploit. Each team has time restraints built into them. Marines have timed research and a tech tree. Kharaa have evolution time and build time on hives. Being able to dump the entire teams' resources into the Gorge circumvents the time requirement to build a hive. Yes, what goes around comes around, it means it will take the sacrificed Skulks that much longer to go Fade. But imagine if the marines could sacrifice infantry portals and armories to just spawn four suits of heavy armor immediately. It's their points to spend how they want, right? Only they circumvented the time that should be required to reach the point where they should have HA. Four HA marines, even with just LMGs, could easily steamroll a batch of Skulks, destroy the hive, and win the game.
Pace is very important in a RTS game, there is a very good reason why upgrades take time to research in Warcraft. A good reason why you must build and research before getting at the stronger units. If one team has access to a time shortcut to skip ahead before the other team is able to handle what the first team will be throwing at them in a few minutes, then there's a problem, and it needs dealing with.
That being said, I wouldn't mind the virtual node idea if it had a cap on the number of resources that could be stored in it. Prevents the early-game exploit from giving it a nigh-infinite resource pool, and gives the resources directly back to the alien team. It could still be mildly exploited, but I doubt that fifty or so resources given to the team over the course of five minutes will make an appreciable difference in the game. I don't want the alien resource pool to be harmed by exiting people, but more than that, I don't want it to be exploitable.
<!--QuoteBegin--geldonyetich+Jan 5 2003, 11:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (geldonyetich @ Jan 5 2003, 11:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I unfortunately can confirm at least one perosn has verified that the alien resource exploit is still working on the 1.04b server.
Looks like we're probably going to have to throw away all alien resources when somebody leaves until that exploit is fixxed.
According to patch notes this "will be revisited later".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> perhaps im missing the point... but retrying and actually leaving the game are different on a server...
one says "dropped" but when retrying the person is still "connected" ie.. his spot is still "reserved" in the server... unless he is that unlucky taht write when he pressed retry someone double clicked to join the server..
wut if someone dropped then meaning theya ctually quit that u give back resouces.. but when retrying or going to ready room u dont... thatw ay it MAY prevent the explot... constantly quitting totally and joining back in takes a LONG time.. and i doubt ny1 would be THAT dedicated <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Doombringer+Jan 6 2003, 01:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Doombringer @ Jan 6 2003, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"Find a server without the exploiter" and "get off pubs, pubs suck" aren't viable options for most players - few of us our so priviledged to have access to a private server or a clan, so we're forced to play on pubs with people we barely know. Do you want to induct me into your clan? Put your money where your mouth is. Offer all us poor saps stuck on pubs a place to play fairly - I think you'll change your tune fast instead of ponying up.
You saw what happened with the 'stopcommandermode' exploit - it ruined all public servers until it was fixed (and the fix isn't even widespread yet), and the resource exploit will do the same soon enough. I don't think Flayra's goal was to only have this game be fair and fun on private servers, but on ALL servers for all players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It NEVER once ruined Voogru.com server. In fact; *IF* Flayra had LISTENED TO US when we reported that bug to him in EARLY Dec. that would NOT have been a problem for anyone.
Limit the number of times the server will give 10 starting resources to 1/2 * maxclients.
Also to fix the "donating" resources issue caused by F4'ing:
Have all resources from aliens leaving be divided by every alien who is not a gorge, while any remaining gets tossed back into the main pool. All the resources will still be saved, but gorges won't get a sudden windfall to start building quicker. At least until the skulks have hit their 33 limit, which is later in the game. This would at least slow the "donating," which would maintain the early game balance.
Yer its pretty bad. I was on public server today on aliens, couldnt believe how quick the gorge had a hive up+ OC's everywhere= gameover for us. Went to a different server= everything sweet.
<!--QuoteBegin--kInG kAhUnA+Jan 7 2003, 04:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kInG kAhUnA @ Jan 7 2003, 04:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It NEVER once ruined Voogru.com server. In fact; *IF* Flayra had LISTENED TO US when we reported that bug to him in EARLY Dec. that would NOT have been a problem for anyone.
BUT - he didn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Flayra had a lot of things to do at once. I mean this guy coded ALL of NS. Can't he at least have a break??
(I am not flaming Voogru BTW it's just that Flayra isn't god (although we all wish he was) he deserves a break at some point (he hasn't had a job while he coded NS) He deserves a break from it all. All you need is a good admin team. (and I have respect to anyone that can code, because I can't.))
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>ONLY GIVE 10 RESOURCES ONCE!</b></span>
How hard can it be?
These destroyed resource ideas need to be shoved in an orifice and burnt.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That works, let's just do that. Then there's no stupid Marine advantage by Aliens losing resources when a player leaves.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Phase gates now must be +used instead of just touched<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG, thank you Flayra! I can't tell you how many times I get killed because of those damn things. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I still hope and pray that the alien autokill thing gets expanded to Marines with no IPs or CCs left and made a server variable though. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think that there is a single, simple solution that solve all of this without any formulas, complex "Virtual Resources" or any but minor changes.
Let's Review - "ONLY GIVE 10 RESOURCES ONCE" This seems like a simple solution, but I don't believe that Half-Life is capable tracking who has gotten them and who has not. Additionally, even if it could, it would not stop someone from "Retry"ing and doing the same thing, as was pointed out earlier. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Stop Giving Out 10 Resources" I believe that the 10 resources are essential to the gameplay. They are an important leg-up to balance the early game.
"Have a Finite Pool of X resources that are only given out once" The "only given out once" part is probably not possible to implement (See previous comment) - Also, since people only join one at a time, it would be hard to re-redistribute them everytime someone joined in the server in the first minute. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><b>Here is my solution:</b><!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> There are two game phases, same as it is now - Before 1 minute elapsed gametime and After 1 minute elapsed gametime.
<b>Before One Minute Elapsed Gametime</b> Every player that joins gets +10 "free" resources, same as it is now. <span style='color:blue'>Anyone leaving before 1 minute loses 10 resources and the remainder of their resources goes back in the Alien Resource Pool.</span>
<b>After One Minute Elapsed Gametime</b> Every player that joins gets nothing, Same as it is now. Anyone leaving after one minute elapsed gametime dumps their resources in the Alien Resource Pool, same as it is now.
This stops the exploit, and keeps the rest of the gameplay almost exactly like it was before, with all the balancing and playtesting that went on. It also keeps it fair, by making sure that any resources EARNED by the team are KEPT by the team. Moreover, it can easily be implemented in the server, since it is clear that the code to do this is already functioning server-side. That means we don't need to wait for the client patch.
Hope we can get this rolled in and going. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (Thanks to SuperMunchkin for the Programming Error fix. Heh. I'da caught it in debug, for sure)
See, now this guy knows what he's talking about. That sounds very plausible and seems to me would be easy to do. 3 Cheers and stuff!
=EDIT= Shouldn't that second if statement be <=1 minute rather than >1 minute? Otherwise the first minute of the game you can still donate back those 10 resources. Typo?
'Limit the number of times the server will give 10 starting resources to 1/2 * maxclients.'
Now that sounds like an excellent idea...
Also, why not just REMOVE the readyroom command from all games that are not in tourneyment mode? as you cannot join another side after you've been on one anyway it's pointless, and doing this would prevent all but retry'ers.
In cases of people being stuck in pit type team choosing entrances, have it teleport them to the original readyroom spawns after 5 of the 'there are too many players on this team' messages. This also serves to annoy the fools always camping in the marine/alien doorways in groups of 7 when the other team has 2 people in it.
Comments
One point about the idea of only giving the resources back only if they leave the server: I don't know how many times I have left a server for whatever reason, only to try and reconnect a few seconds later and find it is already full.
5/6 shots absorbed vs the old 6/7 shots
uhh....any mathemagicians in here?
Each slot on the alien team gets resources. Empty slots get nothing. If a slot empties, those resources are kept there until someone joins and takes that slot. That joining alien gets only those resources to start out.
Questions to ask:
<ul>
<li> What if a gorge with full res leaves? When someone takes that slot, should the extra resources go into his personal queue or the hive pool?
<li> Can this be exploited?
<li> Is it better than what we have now?
<li> Is it better than other suggestions?
</ul>
Also, do the aliens actually start with 10 per alien? When I play it's usually 10per then 33 for one alien. Should the max starting res for aliens be capped at 100?
edit: clarified the first question, added question #3
5/6 shots absorbed vs the old 6/7 shots
uhh....any mathemagicians in here?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's about 3% less effective
Lerks still own
patch....bah!
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
resources the alien team gets from resource towers first goes to a team resource pool. it is from this single pool that ALL aliens drain from. gorges get 3 shares, while the other classes get 1 share. if an alien stores resources and does nothing with them, then leaves... i think it's obvious how the team suffers. those resources could've allowed the team to build/use them to evolve.
but putting that aside, say this alien was saving up for fade resources. they get to 43 and suddenly get disconnected. this player had the potential to assist the alien team greatly. instead, this alien loses all these resources upon reconnect, thus the entire team loses 43 resources. the marines get the advantage. there goes that wonderful balance!
so i ask you, how do they NOT suffer?
Very simple. The reason resources get returned to the pool is quite plain and simple and it's there for that reason. The fact that it can be abused doesn't mean it HAS to be abused nor should it be. IOW, DEAL WITH IT AND STOP GRIEFING.
if someone readyrooms they take their resource with them.. Its not like they can go to marines right? If they disconnect from server then all their resource goes to the alien team.. So the only way to exploit this is to constantly reconnect to a server... That would take a long time and i dont think many of the exploiters out there have the patience to do that...
Anyone see flaws in this? To me, this seems like the perfect solution and i thought of it all by myself <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> mommy would be proud<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually your idea is influenced by moultano...
Other than that I have nothing to contribute.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>Once more, the exploit is not a Skulk with 33/33 resources!</b></span>
The exploit is when a map first starts, and everyone gets 10 resources, <b>every time they join the aliens team!</b>
That results in an exploiter being able to 'stuff' hundreds of resources into the alien hive in the first five or six seconds of the game. <b>That</b> is the exploit.
Resource sharing isn't the problem, it's blocking someone from joining the aliens team repeatedly when a map has first started, causing near-infinite resources immediately, that is the problem.
Kudos go out to the
100 resource idea
all players that leave leave resources for players that join to use (but still exploitable, except that the player that joins gets 33 resources, goes gorge, and builds a nozzle in the first minute)
the "kill'em all" theory of resource destruction.
There is no comparable resource problem for the marine.. I'm pretty sure the comm won't miss the 1 RP spent on all marines at the beginning.. perhaps some malicious person could rejoin the team 100 times and burn it all up? sounds pretty useless. Well, I have class tomorrow, time for bed.
Its a nice idea but it wouldn't really work. Why? Because Aliens would still be getting free resource points, not to mention the equivalent of an invincible node (literally).
So after this, aliens get a steady income of resources, even if they have no nodes, and the marines cant do anything about it.
So very true would be unfair. The only way is take there res off them when they try to press f 4, cant be that hard is it?
You saw what happened with the 'stopcommandermode' exploit - it ruined all public servers until it was fixed (and the fix isn't even widespread yet), and the resource exploit will do the same soon enough. I don't think Flayra's goal was to only have this game be fair and fun on private servers, but on ALL servers for all players.
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>ONLY GIVE 10 RESOURCES ONCE!</b></span>
How hard can it be?
These destroyed resource ideas need to be shoved in an orifice and burnt.
33/33 res from skulk or the starting res does not matter. Both are exploitable. Just think about the difference between public games and clanwars.
Just imagine a game (clanwar, maybe league game) 8vs8. The game runs 3 minutes then an alien player drops from the server. This would cause great problems if the res are given to the other aliens so the gorge could build the hive very fast. But it would also give an advantage to the marines because the aliens lose res (what happens if the gorge drops with 79 res? - game over). There must be a solution to solve this problem.
Probably the res should be saved until the player returns and given back to him. If he does not return after 3 minutes the res go back to the alien team resource. Every player who joins the game after its beginning does not get any res. Not the best solution but better than giving one team a big advantage.
At least I don't think there is a way to realy solve this problem with the current alien res system...
Pace is very important in a RTS game, there is a very good reason why upgrades take time to research in Warcraft. A good reason why you must build and research before getting at the stronger units. If one team has access to a time shortcut to skip ahead before the other team is able to handle what the first team will be throwing at them in a few minutes, then there's a problem, and it needs dealing with.
That being said, I wouldn't mind the virtual node idea if it had a cap on the number of resources that could be stored in it. Prevents the early-game exploit from giving it a nigh-infinite resource pool, and gives the resources directly back to the alien team. It could still be mildly exploited, but I doubt that fifty or so resources given to the team over the course of five minutes will make an appreciable difference in the game. I don't want the alien resource pool to be harmed by exiting people, but more than that, I don't want it to be exploitable.
Looks like we're probably going to have to throw away all alien resources when somebody leaves until that exploit is fixxed.
According to patch notes this "will be revisited later".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
perhaps im missing the point... but retrying and actually leaving the game are different on a server...
one says "dropped" but when retrying the person is still "connected" ie.. his spot is still "reserved" in the server... unless he is that unlucky taht write when he pressed retry someone double clicked to join the server..
wut if someone dropped then meaning theya ctually quit that u give back resouces.. but when retrying or going to ready room u dont... thatw ay it MAY prevent the explot... constantly quitting totally and joining back in takes a LONG time.. and i doubt ny1 would be THAT dedicated <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
You saw what happened with the 'stopcommandermode' exploit - it ruined all public servers until it was fixed (and the fix isn't even widespread yet), and the resource exploit will do the same soon enough. I don't think Flayra's goal was to only have this game be fair and fun on private servers, but on ALL servers for all players.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It NEVER once ruined Voogru.com server. In fact; *IF* Flayra had LISTENED TO US when we reported that bug to him in EARLY Dec. that would NOT have been a problem for anyone.
BUT - he didn't.
Limit the number of times the server will give 10 starting resources to 1/2 * maxclients.
Also to fix the "donating" resources issue caused by F4'ing:
Have all resources from aliens leaving be divided by every alien who is not a gorge, while any remaining gets tossed back into the main pool. All the resources will still be saved, but gorges won't get a sudden windfall to start building quicker. At least until the skulks have hit their 33 limit, which is later in the game. This would at least slow the "donating," which would maintain the early game balance.
Went to a different server= everything sweet.
BUT - he didn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flayra had a lot of things to do at once. I mean this guy coded ALL of NS. Can't he at least have a break??
(I am not flaming Voogru BTW it's just that Flayra isn't god (although we all wish he was) he deserves a break at some point (he hasn't had a job while he coded NS) He deserves a break from it all. All you need is a good admin team. (and I have respect to anyone that can code, because I can't.))
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>ONLY GIVE 10 RESOURCES ONCE!</b></span>
How hard can it be?
These destroyed resource ideas need to be shoved in an orifice and burnt.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That works, let's just do that. Then there's no stupid Marine advantage by Aliens losing resources when a player leaves.
OMG, thank you Flayra! I can't tell you how many times I get killed because of those damn things. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I still hope and pray that the alien autokill thing gets expanded to Marines with no IPs or CCs left and made a server variable though. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Let's Review -
"ONLY GIVE 10 RESOURCES ONCE"
This seems like a simple solution, but I don't believe that Half-Life is capable tracking who has gotten them and who has not. Additionally, even if it could, it would not stop someone from "Retry"ing and doing the same thing, as was pointed out earlier. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
"Stop Giving Out 10 Resources"
I believe that the 10 resources are essential to the gameplay. They are an important leg-up to balance the early game.
"Have a Finite Pool of X resources that are only given out once"
The "only given out once" part is probably not possible to implement (See previous comment) - Also, since people only join one at a time, it would be hard to re-redistribute them everytime someone joined in the server in the first minute. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><b>Here is my solution:</b><!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
There are two game phases, same as it is now - Before 1 minute elapsed gametime and After 1 minute elapsed gametime.
<b>Before One Minute Elapsed Gametime</b>
Every player that joins gets +10 "free" resources, same as it is now.
<span style='color:blue'>Anyone leaving before 1 minute loses 10 resources and the remainder of their resources goes back in the Alien Resource Pool.</span>
<b>After One Minute Elapsed Gametime</b>
Every player that joins gets nothing, Same as it is now.
Anyone leaving after one minute elapsed gametime dumps their resources in the Alien Resource Pool, same as it is now.
<b>My PsudeoCode</b>
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
On_player_join(&Player)
? ? If(Game_time_elapsed < 1 Minute)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Player.Resouces = 10;
? ? else
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Player.Resources = 0;
? ? endif
On_player_leave(&Player)
? ? If(Game_time_elapsed <= 1 Minute)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? if(Player.Resources > 10)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Hive.Resources += (Player.Resouces-10)
? ? ? ? ? ? ? endif
? ? else
? ? ? ? ? ? ? Hive.Resources += Player.Resouces
? ? endif
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
This stops the exploit, and keeps the rest of the gameplay almost exactly like it was before, with all the balancing and playtesting that went on. It also keeps it fair, by making sure that any resources EARNED by the team are KEPT by the team. Moreover, it can easily be implemented in the server, since it is clear that the code to do this is already functioning server-side. That means we don't need to wait for the client patch.
Hope we can get this rolled in and going. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
(Thanks to SuperMunchkin for the Programming Error fix. Heh. I'da caught it in debug, for sure)
=EDIT=
Shouldn't that second if statement be <=1 minute rather than >1 minute? Otherwise the first minute of the game you can still donate back those 10 resources. Typo?
Now that sounds like an excellent idea...
Also, why not just REMOVE the readyroom command from all games that are not in tourneyment mode? as you cannot join another side after you've been on one anyway it's pointless, and doing this would prevent all but retry'ers.
In cases of people being stuck in pit type team choosing entrances, have it teleport them to the original readyroom spawns after 5 of the 'there are too many players on this team' messages. This also serves to annoy the fools always camping in the marine/alien doorways in groups of 7 when the other team has 2 people in it.