Skill Requirements In Ns

Defcon · January 2003

The guns in natural selection are to be honest, pretty skilless, you master the aiming like so many have done in other games like TFC/CS and you transfer those skills here.

The only thing you need do, is track the enemy. Everything else is based on what goodies you have, and what the enemy has. Sure theres skill involved but not to the degree of a game like counter strike, mainly due to the recoil.

I'd like to see this game go far, and the only way it'll be able to go that one step further in future is if the skill potential, can be much more requiring. Adding recoil to the guns but giving them a little more power to compensate.

The game has one thing currently, it's the strategy and tactics, when that turns into a common set of tactics (oh believe me, it will) it'll rely on the FPS aspect.

Insidious · January 2003

NS is more comperable to games like Warcraft than it is to Quake, though. The combat isn't made needlessly complex because that's not the draw this game offers. The combat in Warcraft is pretty simple, too. A set rate of attack, a set range, and the damage ranges are pretty narrow. But who cares? That's not what the game is about. NS isn't about being the best shot in the world, it's about being the best team in the world. The complexity in NS combat isn't in using the guns, it's in moving in formations, holding territory, watching for wall-crawling or flying oppenents, and trying to shoot that speedy little **** that's zipping around your ankles.

Can you imagine trying to hit a skulk with weapons like the ones in CS? It's hard enough to hit a person with their recoil, much less something that's smaller, and faster (and don't forget it can leap, climb walls, and sometimes cloak).

The learning curve is already painfully steep (expecially if you didn't start playing when it was released), it doesn't need to be made worse.

geldonyetich · January 2003

I'm not sure why you say that the weapons in NS are skilless. One of the things I appreciate about NS Is that there's less randomness involved. Pistols, Lerk Spikes, and Fade Acid Rockets are 100% accurate. LMGs and HMG's randomness is relatively easy to predict.

Exactly whose "skill" are you thinking of improving by taking the control OUT of the player's hands?

SuperMunchkin · January 2003

I'd simply like to agree with insidious. This game isn't a common deathmatch mod- it's about teamwork and strategy.

ViPr · January 2003

CS, as it is now, is probably the worst PC game in history to test your aiming skill. NS is better for testing aim although the poor visibility due to muzzle flash and darkness of the levels coupled with a bad flashlight effect hurts it somewhat.

pardzh · January 2003

Recoil?

You think you'd even be able to manage killing skulks with recoil? I doubt anyone could. It takes somewhere around 17 bullets to kill a skulk with level 3 Carapace. With an aiming system like the one CS uses, you'd be lucky to get 4 bullets into the skulk by the time you got eaten.

The game is not meant to be realistic, otherwise it would not include elephant sized aliens that eat people for fun. Recoil can stay out.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Umbraed_Monkey · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (geldonyetich @ Jan 5 2003, 11:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Exactly whose "skill" are you thinking of improving by taking the control OUT of the player's hands?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
wow, good point...any witty comebacks to this one, Defcon?

ViPr · January 2003

CS is not more realistic. if it was realistic then the bullets would go where the crosshair is pointing and the crosshair would move instead of change size.

Dracos · January 2003

Imagine trying to hit a skulk with celerity while using a HMG with heavy recoil. Might as well just use the pistol if recoil goes in cause there is no way youd be able to hit him.

Lucid · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SuperMunchkin @ Jan 5 2003, 11:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'd simply like to agree with insidious. This game isn't a common deathmatch mod- it's about teamwork and strategy.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
let's not forget communication. Thats my favorite part about this game. Good communication is absolutely nessesary.

zoda · January 2003

It sounds to me like all you're doing is fighting... Its a RTS game also.

fighting wise it is rather easy with marines and once you get the hang of it is with aliens too

Brutus · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (geldonyetich @ Jan 5 2003, 09:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I'm not sure why you say that the weapons in NS are skilless. One of the things I appreciate about NS Is that there's less randomness involved. Pistols, Lerk Spikes, and Fade Acid Rockets are 100% accurate. LMGs and HMG's randomness is relatively easy to predict.

Exactly whose "skill" are you thinking of improving by taking the control OUT of the player's hands?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
CS recoil is not random. If you ever looked at how the bullet pattern goes you will notice that each weapon has a certain 'pull' to it. Once you get use to that you can predict where your weapon will go. Of course full auto sends it all over the place, but that is good. Try shooting a .50 DEagle and see if you can shoot it multiple times and still hit a target.

ViPr · January 2003

CS weapons still fire way too random and in real life people train to be able to aim weapons well while moving and firing at full auto but in CS you're not allowed to train for that it just gives everyone crap aim anyway no matter how good your hand eye coordination is. If we don't start complaining now about what they are doing to CS then CS is gonna end up like one of those RPG games where you buy skill upgrades and when you see an enemy you click the combat button and then go read a newspaper and check back a while later to see if your character won.

to people that say that it's realistic that it is harder to aim while firing full auto and running well there are better ways to do that in a game than the stupid way that CS and DOD and many other games did it. they could make the view and crosshair bob or sway while you move and make it recoil in a non-random way while firing. these 2 things will get the same effect of hurting people's aim while running and firing full auto but skilled players could still possibly have better aim than unskilled players that burst fire and crouch. I refuse to play CS and these other games coz of the fact that they use bot AI code to handle these apsect of our aim therefore taking much of the control away from the player and not giving us the opportunity to use our skill.

Insidious · January 2003

You're in the wrong forum if you're looking for sympathy when you talk about CS.

I'm not saying I dislike it, but those two little letters, only one letter different than NS, seem to send people into a frenzy of flaming.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

SemperFi · January 2003

Anyone who tries to compare CS's recoil with real life, or anything about cs with real life is just...they are just...

I cant reply to this with out flaming someone so im just gonna laugh at how ridiculous the idea is.

Duck_King · January 2003

There are two things that are realistic about CS. The way the guns look, and their ammo count. THAT IS IT. I dare you to even suggest that anything else is realistic about that game.

CrouchingHamster · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Defcon @ Jan 5 2003, 07:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I'd like to see this game go far, and the only way it'll be able to go that one step further in future is if the skill potential, can be much more requiring. Adding recoil to the guns but giving them a little more power to compensate.

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Do futuristic imaginary space marine guns <i>have</i> recoil? I've never shot one myself...

Hannebambel · January 2003

If Cs would be realistic, you would have an Ironsight instead of a Crosshair.

And you could prone in order to use the M249 effectively. And firing a .50 cal Arctic Warfare Magnum while standing and Keep Zoomed aim while walking aren´t realistic either.

There are more points, which show that CS is poor (especially the players preferrence of that stupid speedmap called fy_iceworld), but I guess I mentioned enough.

Immacolata · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Jan 5 2003, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>CS is not more realistic. if it was realistic then the bullets would go where the crosshair is pointing and the crosshair would move instead of change size.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Huh? Last time I heard of guns, they were by no mean pin-point accuracy laser beams. The farther you shoot, the more upwards you have to compensate. And short barreled guns must aim higher than long barreled ones. And bullets fly through the air at speed, they aren't "hitscan".

The crosshair concept is out of whack. In reality you have to keep track of the guns chamber and the muzzle - that creates a firing vector that will be hard to predict precisely for a short barreled gun. Not to mention the effects of friction in the barrel, in the air, wind speed etc.

Immacolata · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CrouchingHamster,HiddenElvis @ Jan 6 2003, 05:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Do futuristic imaginary space marine guns <i>have</i> recoil? I've never shot one myself...</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I fired one last night. A bit yes, but nothing unsettling <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

ViPr · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Immacolata @ Jan 6 2003, 05:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Jan 5 2003, 05:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>CS is not more realistic. if it was realistic then the bullets would go where the crosshair is pointing and the crosshair would move instead of change size.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Huh? Last time I heard of guns, they were by no mean pin-point accuracy laser beams. The farther you shoot, the more upwards you have to compensate. And short barreled guns must aim higher than long barreled ones. And bullets fly through the air at speed, they aren't "hitscan".

The crosshair concept is out of whack. In reality you have to keep track of the guns chamber and the muzzle - that creates a firing vector that will be hard to predict precisely for a short barreled gun. Not to mention the effects of friction in the barrel, in the air, wind speed etc.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
ok ya if you want to go that much into detail, in real-life bullets are affected by gravity and wind and they don't have infinite velocity but the point i was really trying to make is that bullets don't go in random directions like in CS and so many other shooter games.

Ulatoh · January 2003

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah , thats all i hear. CS is a counter terrorism mod, NS is a sci-fi aliens vs humans mod, now i doubt the makers of natural selection were basing their mod off CS, since its barely the same genre.

they were probabbly busy implementing things like commander mode.

also, no matter how little skill it takes, noone can deny that

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> = <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

and <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> = <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'>

or <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> + <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'> = <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'>

L3TUC3 · January 2003

Who cares really, I just want to turn that alien into a mixed salad and preferably all over the wall.

Also if you read the manual (where'd it go?) it would say the recoil is used to propel the next bullet (hey, it's the future, remember?). That's why there's so little recoil.

Brutus · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Jan 5 2003, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>CS weapons still fire way too random and in real life people train to be able to aim weapons well while moving and firing at full auto</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Nobody is taught how to run and fire full auto.

Skill Requirements In Ns

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