-? moved nutrient mist to drifter
Okay, I see what you're doing here. You're making the drifter a fully garden-growing based unit. Probably a little less interesting than having it assist in combat, but if you are going to make the drifter only for building stuff, it makes sense to give it nutrient mist.
- reduced railgun movement penalty while charging by 50%
Good change. Slowdown is too much right now.
- reduced shift energy regain to 10 (was 15) per tick
Really just an adjustment to make shifts work with the new enzyme
- enzyme affects now also structures and increases damage by 10% (healing by 30% and shift energy by 40%)
This is a pretty cool idea, I could see it being interesting and useful. Much more elegant way of providing a structure buff than symbiosis was, IMO.
- added lerk tier 3 ability primal scream (+30% attack rate for nearby aliens)
Yet another NS1 element being brought back by BT. Assuming enzyme still affects players, this is more than a little redundant. If you really want to make primal scream happen, enzyme will probably have to become purely a structure buff.
- added "Encrust" ability to crag, temporary increases max health of all nearby units
I like this idea. Heal wave was always kind of boring as an ability (it does the same thing... but FASTER!) and that is now being done by enzyme. This is a more interesting ability that allows the khamm to protect nearby units from big marine pushes
- babblers deal now double the damage against players
Sounds good. Babblers ought to at least pose something of a threat. They're pretty much a joke at the moment.
Also, a few other changes seem to have been made. RFK has been removed (which I'm happy about, I just don't think it's a good gameplay concept) and we've gone from researching each ability individually to grouped lifeform upgrades. Although from a UI standpoint it makes sense to limit the number of possible researches, I just think that having these lumped upgrades limits khammander creativity and provides newer commanders with gigantic expensive upgrades that won't actually do anything until Biomass levels increase. Also, Symbiosis is gone, with enzyme now serving the same purpose.
- added lerk tier 3 ability primal scream (+30% attack rate for nearby aliens)
Yet another NS1 element being brought back by BT. Assuming enzyme still affects players, this is more than a little redundant. If you really want to make primal scream happen, enzyme will probably have to become purely a structure buff.
- enzyme affects now also structures and increases damage by 10% (healing by 30% and shift energy by 40%)
This is a pretty cool idea, I could see it being interesting and useful. Much more elegant way of providing a structure buff than symbiosis was, IMO.
- added lerk tier 3 ability primal scream (+30% attack rate for nearby aliens)
Yet another NS1 element being brought back by BT. Assuming enzyme still affects players, this is more than a little redundant. If you really want to make primal scream happen, enzyme will probably have to become purely a structure buff.
i think you understood it wrong. enzyme increases also the damage of players by 10% (no longer attack speed increase), giving primal scream a unique spot now. it fixes the problem that enzymed players (who miss attacks) burn their energy much faster, so they wont fully profit from the DPS increase. primal scream will be more useful (attack rate increase) in the end game, when you can assume you have either adrenaline or shifts nearby.
Oh, my bad with the enzyme thing. I'm a big fan of these changes then, enzyme will be great for the khamm to assist in battle with, arguably better than enzyme for the reasons you listed above. And it makes perfect room for primal scream, which will make the Lerk even more versatile than it already is!
I'd greatly prefer that they be global, as they seem to be right now, for gameplay purposes. This does, however, raise some serious questions in regards to lore, like "what gives the aliens the power to make gas clouds appear out of thin air?"
I'd greatly prefer that they be global, as they seem to be right now, for gameplay purposes. This does, however, raise some serious questions in regards to lore, like "what gives the aliens the power to make gas clouds appear out of thin air?"
I'd speculate that by the time the TSF lands on whatever facility the Kharaa infestation was detected, the Bacterium will already have covered it from top to bottom on a microscopic level at least (hence why Cysts need to spread infestation visible to the eye).
Also, a few other changes seem to have been made. RFK has been removed (which I'm happy about, I just don't think it's a good gameplay concept) and we've gone from researching each ability individually to grouped lifeform upgrades. Although from a UI standpoint it makes sense to limit the number of possible researches, I just think that having these lumped upgrades limits khammander creativity and provides newer commanders with gigantic expensive upgrades that won't actually do anything until Biomass levels increase. Also, Symbiosis is gone, with enzyme now serving the same purpose.
I also think it seems really strange to purchase an upgrade in the early game that then includes tech all the way through to the endgame. Just another weird game system that doesn't really fit with player expectations - what other game has ever had an upgrade that works like that? I honestly think Biomass unlocking upgrades automatically was the best and most logical system. Khamms can have more strategic variety in other ways. What about making lifeforms more expensive by default, but allowing the khamm to purchase upgrades that make them cheaper? That way they can still influence the team's strategy towards particular lifeforms if they want.
Ooo interesting, any time frame when these changes may go out? I need to free up my schedule to make a new Intel Update
You mean a new leak? :P
I'm beginning to really like the Skulk Tumor ability, which strengthens alien early defense against early marine rushing on high pop servers. Only if we can have more testing games...
Tumor needs a time delay (like Gorge's consume) IMO. It's not fun to accidentally kill yourself, while wasting personally resources.
I wonder why alien abilities researches were reverted back to bundles?
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I like the new UI, but I think it really lends its self to biomass having automatic research unlocks.
It's going to be weird having all the bars filled and every ability covered in the wheel, but still not have access to any of them because the comm hasn't upgraded the lerk.
Or if the comm instantly upgrades the lerk so that all abilities can be unlocked, but still not having access to any because the biomass isn't there yet.
I like the new Biomass UI too. Jekt's post got me thinking about a very radical idea for the Biomass system... I'll try to keep this short and simple:
1) Every Biomass upgrade (research in Hive) unlocks each lifeform's next ability to select in Evolve Menu.
Following the current BT mod Kharaa techtree:
- Hive 1 + Biomass: Tumor, Babbler Egg, Spores, Shadow Step, Charge
- Hive 2 + Biomass: Leap, Bile Bomb, Umbra, Vortex, Bone Shield
- Hive 3 + Biomass: Xenocide, Webs, Primal Scream, Stab, Stomp
2) Abilities unlocked by Biomass have individual Pres costs or same as scaling cost per Lifeform for Evolutions.
- Maybe have Tumor cost 2 Pres to evolve, but free to use (Skulk dies anyway so must buy again).
- IMO, Shadow Step and Charge aren't really worth the scaling costs (Fade 5, Onos 8), so individual costs help.
- Since abilities are purchased, it makes sense that players keep their abilities if a Hive goes down, but can't buy abilities without rebuilding and upgrading a new Hive.
3) Upgrade Lifeform (research in Evolution Chamber) makes the specific lifeform's abilities free to evolve. These research are probably very expensive and have long research times...
These changes introduce PRes sinks to help address lifeform explosions by limiting the initial power of the lifeforms. Khamm can choose to invest TRes to allow free sbilities by building Evolution Chambers to upgrade lifeforms. Marines can choose to kill Hives to deny access to abilities, or kill all Evolution Chambers to make abilities cost PRes (if Khamm already upgraded lifeforms).
Granted, it'll require quite a bit of coding and UI changes to Evolve Menu, but I guess it doesn't hurt to brainstorm ideas
i added a new bio mass UI today to the mod, would be curious about your feedback.
Hi. I tried to take a screenshot to explain everything better, but all I got was a black screen in paint
For lifeforms I think it works fine.
For khamm: All in all I like the update, just small things I can recommend:
- The gray background of the techtree overlays part of the descriptions for me
- The alertbutton and the button to see the research tree dont really fit in the position they're in. I can see the you want to keep the expericence similar to the comm, but they look out of place to me. How about: You can see the techtree by clicking on the new top-left biomass symbol instead? This whould be somewhat in line with how lifeforms see their upgrades.
- bottom bar: it's good to see the progress if you have serveral upgrades going on at the same time, but I think the look could be improved. Once the list gets longer it's hard to tell what they are for. I also dont know if the bug just show for me, but the edges around the circle are not transparent for me.
I like how every lifeform now has three abilities, one on each hive. There's something elegant about that.
Tumor still feels weird to me though
It's not only just elegant, it's intuitive both for the devs and players.
The more elegant patterns you can fit into the game, the easier it becomes for the newbies to understand and often also for devs to shape and balance. For example the quality Blizzard games are full of such patterns.
As for NS2, I feel the more the devs can find and implement these, the closer NS2 gets to a stable and finalized form.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I do agree with the idea of giving the skulk a new ability, but tumor is weird. Something like 'burrow' from Starcraft would be much cooler.
That being said, not sure how it could be differentiated from phantom. Maybe have a bit of bone armor sticking out for observant marines to see? Scanning reveals skulk? Maybe?
I do agree with the idea of giving the skulk a new ability, but tumor is weird. Something like 'burrow' from Starcraft would be much cooler.
That being said, not sure how it could be differentiated from phantom. Maybe have a bit of bone armor sticking out for observant marines to see? Scanning reveals skulk? Maybe?
How about, it could only be used on infestation, and slowly drains energy while in use.
It's not only just elegant, it's intuitive both for the devs and players.
The more elegant patterns you can fit into the game, the easier it becomes for the newbies to understand and often also for devs to shape and balance. For example the quality Blizzard games are full of such patterns.
As for NS2, I feel the more the devs can find and implement these, the closer NS2 gets to a stable and finalized form.
While I would generally agree to a statement like that, I also wanted to add that noone should feel pressured to add another ability, so it just fits into the current tech-tree pattern. There already are a ton of changes planned in this current beta that can greatly shift balance of the game and we should not risk to add more to it imo.
Comments
Okay, I see what you're doing here. You're making the drifter a fully garden-growing based unit. Probably a little less interesting than having it assist in combat, but if you are going to make the drifter only for building stuff, it makes sense to give it nutrient mist.
- reduced railgun movement penalty while charging by 50%
Good change. Slowdown is too much right now.
- reduced shift energy regain to 10 (was 15) per tick
Really just an adjustment to make shifts work with the new enzyme
- enzyme affects now also structures and increases damage by 10% (healing by 30% and shift energy by 40%)
This is a pretty cool idea, I could see it being interesting and useful. Much more elegant way of providing a structure buff than symbiosis was, IMO.
- added lerk tier 3 ability primal scream (+30% attack rate for nearby aliens)
Yet another NS1 element being brought back by BT. Assuming enzyme still affects players, this is more than a little redundant. If you really want to make primal scream happen, enzyme will probably have to become purely a structure buff.
- added "Encrust" ability to crag, temporary increases max health of all nearby units
I like this idea. Heal wave was always kind of boring as an ability (it does the same thing... but FASTER!) and that is now being done by enzyme. This is a more interesting ability that allows the khamm to protect nearby units from big marine pushes
- babblers deal now double the damage against players
Sounds good. Babblers ought to at least pose something of a threat. They're pretty much a joke at the moment.
Also, a few other changes seem to have been made. RFK has been removed (which I'm happy about, I just don't think it's a good gameplay concept) and we've gone from researching each ability individually to grouped lifeform upgrades. Although from a UI standpoint it makes sense to limit the number of possible researches, I just think that having these lumped upgrades limits khammander creativity and provides newer commanders with gigantic expensive upgrades that won't actually do anything until Biomass levels increase. Also, Symbiosis is gone, with enzyme now serving the same purpose.
I loved that one.
i think you understood it wrong. enzyme increases also the damage of players by 10% (no longer attack speed increase), giving primal scream a unique spot now. it fixes the problem that enzymed players (who miss attacks) burn their energy much faster, so they wont fully profit from the DPS increase. primal scream will be more useful (attack rate increase) in the end game, when you can assume you have either adrenaline or shifts nearby.
Although, Tumor is still quite a strange hybrid ability, considering it does the job of both Parasite and Xenocide in its current explosive form.
IMO, there needn't be two suicide buttons on the Skulk, and if it becomes a skill-indexed ability, that'll be great.
Skulk: 4 (Bite,Para, Leap, Xeno)
Gorge: 5 (Spit,Heal,Build,Bile Bomb, Web)
Fade: 5 (Claws, Blink, Shadowstep, Vortex, Stab)
Onos: 4: (Gore, Charge, Boneshield, Stomp)
I'd speculate that by the time the TSF lands on whatever facility the Kharaa infestation was detected, the Bacterium will already have covered it from top to bottom on a microscopic level at least (hence why Cysts need to spread infestation visible to the eye).
I also think it seems really strange to purchase an upgrade in the early game that then includes tech all the way through to the endgame. Just another weird game system that doesn't really fit with player expectations - what other game has ever had an upgrade that works like that? I honestly think Biomass unlocking upgrades automatically was the best and most logical system. Khamms can have more strategic variety in other ways. What about making lifeforms more expensive by default, but allowing the khamm to purchase upgrades that make them cheaper? That way they can still influence the team's strategy towards particular lifeforms if they want.
I'm beginning to really like the Skulk Tumor ability, which strengthens alien early defense against early marine rushing on high pop servers. Only if we can have more testing games...
Tumor needs a time delay (like Gorge's consume) IMO. It's not fun to accidentally kill yourself, while wasting personally resources.
I wonder why alien abilities researches were reverted back to bundles?
It's going to be weird having all the bars filled and every ability covered in the wheel, but still not have access to any of them because the comm hasn't upgraded the lerk.
Or if the comm instantly upgrades the lerk so that all abilities can be unlocked, but still not having access to any because the biomass isn't there yet.
These changes introduce PRes sinks to help address lifeform explosions by limiting the initial power of the lifeforms. Khamm can choose to invest TRes to allow free sbilities by building Evolution Chambers to upgrade lifeforms. Marines can choose to kill Hives to deny access to abilities, or kill all Evolution Chambers to make abilities cost PRes (if Khamm already upgraded lifeforms).
Granted, it'll require quite a bit of coding and UI changes to Evolve Menu, but I guess it doesn't hurt to brainstorm ideas
Hi. I tried to take a screenshot to explain everything better, but all I got was a black screen in paint
For lifeforms I think it works fine.
For khamm: All in all I like the update, just small things I can recommend:
- The gray background of the techtree overlays part of the descriptions for me
- The alertbutton and the button to see the research tree dont really fit in the position they're in. I can see the you want to keep the expericence similar to the comm, but they look out of place to me. How about: You can see the techtree by clicking on the new top-left biomass symbol instead? This whould be somewhat in line with how lifeforms see their upgrades.
- bottom bar: it's good to see the progress if you have serveral upgrades going on at the same time, but I think the look could be improved. Once the list gets longer it's hard to tell what they are for. I also dont know if the bug just show for me, but the edges around the circle are not transparent for me.
Tumor still feels weird to me though
Make it xenocide-lite
It's not only just elegant, it's intuitive both for the devs and players.
The more elegant patterns you can fit into the game, the easier it becomes for the newbies to understand and often also for devs to shape and balance. For example the quality Blizzard games are full of such patterns.
As for NS2, I feel the more the devs can find and implement these, the closer NS2 gets to a stable and finalized form.
That being said, not sure how it could be differentiated from phantom. Maybe have a bit of bone armor sticking out for observant marines to see? Scanning reveals skulk? Maybe?
How about, it could only be used on infestation, and slowly drains energy while in use.
1. Helps to alleviate fade explosion with the p-res cost.
2. Gives more usability if you're forced back to skulking later in the game.