I thought about that aswell for a while. I think the best solution would be to show those values like marine upgrades/biomass level in the scoreboard for both teams.
I'd rather have arms lab visually showing on the model the upgrades' level and aliens could scout to find out. You can estimate biomass by the number of hives, again, hives could visually evolve into another, more advanced model using biomass.
Speaking of Biomass, in earlier versions of the Balance Test, the Hive had black stripes on its orange membrane depending on Biomass level. Why isn't it in live build? It's a nice simple visual indicator.
Is there a reason charge doesn't push people out of the way like in NS1 charging out of a room to be stopped dead in your tracks by a skulk or whatever is a pain. It also used to do damage, would be cool if we could damage proportional to distance pushed...
I'd also be all for knocking over a clog wall as an onos charging (pet peeve is the solid wall of clogs)
This game needs less complexity, not more. NS2 has already grown way more complex then I think it ever should have, there are so many small details to almost every weapon or ability in this game that outside of a few select people, I dont think that there is any one person that could name them all. I think that some of the BT mod should be focused on reducing that complexity, simplifying combat interactions and alien tech paths.
Hidden modifiers is not a problem for the other team generally, its a problem when your own team has no idea how something functions. Weapon and Armor upgrades are quite clearly indicated, and are extremely basic in function (more damage, more health). Compare that to something like cluster grenades completely destroying clogs and hydras but doing almost nothing to other alien structures and your just asking for confusion.
I'd rather have arms lab visually showing on the model the upgrades' level and aliens could scout to find out. You can estimate biomass by the number of hives, again, hives could visually evolve into another, more advanced model using biomass.
Yea, but making the armslab so visually distinctive that you can tell between 2*4 different upgrade-level doenst sound possible and practical to me. I also dont see UWE having resources to create different models just for this.
How about: The marine comm can see the the biomass level by scanning/scouting the hive. In the same way the khamm should see the upgrades when selecting the armslab after it got spotted by an alien.
I'd rather have arms lab visually showing on the model the upgrades' level and aliens could scout to find out. You can estimate biomass by the number of hives, again, hives could visually evolve into another, more advanced model using biomass.
Yea, but making the armslab so visually distinctive that you can tell between 2*4 different upgrade-level doenst sound possible and practical to me. I also dont see UWE having resources to create different models just for this.
How about: The marine comm can see the the biomass level by scanning/scouting the hive. In the same way the khamm should see the upgrades when selecting the armslab after it got spotted by an alien.
Arms lab could be subtitled with the levels, when you look at it.
The hologram on the model always shows Armor 2 (not sure), changing it to 1 and 3 (a bigger font too) wouldn't be much of a problem I think, and it could interchange showing the Weapon level every 5 seconds or so, the scout would have to stay a while in the base for full info.
I thought about that aswell for a while. I think the best solution would be to show those values like marine upgrades/biomass level in the scoreboard for both teams.
I'd rather have arms lab visually showing on the model the upgrades' level and aliens could scout to find out. You can estimate biomass by the number of hives, again, hives could visually evolve into another, more advanced model using biomass.
Don't quote me on this, but I think there is a subtle change on the alien hive that tells its biomass level (but afaik it is per hive, and not cumulative)
Ever since grenades were added, I've been wanting to use them, but it seems that they are just not a priority for most Comms and they get researched as an afterthought in most games (i.e. late game)
What I suggest, is that the research for Shotguns and Grenades be combined into a single research (same as Advanced Weapons)
This will help expand the versatility of the marine's play style, as well as add more Pres sinks to avoid "Tech Explosions" from the marines.
Also, we would see more grenade usage, which would simply be awsome
=-=-=-=-=
As a side note, with this upgrade, the Arms Lab researches could be tied into them as well.
*For Instance:
can get a1/w1 without armory upgrades
can get a2/w2 with Augmented Arsenal
can get a3/w3 with Advanced Weapons
Im not to sure how well this would work, but just throwing it out there for consideration
I hate to sound so negative, but I find the Symbiosis ability confusing. On the one hand you already upgrade the hive for one specific chamber, but then also the evolution chamber for another (or the same aswell). For me it would be more logical to upgrade the crag on an upgraded crag-hive
You always have to research tier1 ability before tiers 2 with evolution chamber?
I really liked how it was before in 251, where you could skip upgrades you don't need at the moment.
Anyway, at least you can get stuff without investing in everything lifeform possibly has now. It's good that you can get shadow step without paying for vortex and stab.
One thing to think about: the Gorge's babbler baitball ability is still pretty awkward, clunky, and somewhat unintuitive to use. How about replacing it with a simple system like:
spit at an enemy or building - babblers attack that thing
spit at the ground - babblers go to where you spit
heal teammate - babblers attach themselves to that teammate
look down and heal self - babblers attach to you
One thing to think about: the Gorge's babbler baitball ability is still pretty awkward, clunky, and somewhat unintuitive to use. How about replacing it with a simple system like:
spit at an enemy or building - babblers attack that thing
spit at the ground - babblers go to where you spit
heal teammate - babblers attach themselves to that teammate
look down and heal self - babblers attach to you
How is this simple lol. I want babblers to do what I tell them
One thing to think about: the Gorge's babbler baitball ability is still pretty awkward, clunky, and somewhat unintuitive to use. How about replacing it with a simple system like:
spit at an enemy or building - babblers attack that thing
spit at the ground - babblers go to where you spit
heal teammate - babblers attach themselves to that teammate
look down and heal self - babblers attach to you
How is this simple lol. I want babblers to do what I tell them
@Blarney_Stone. I am afraid your suggestion is making it more complicated. What if I want to heal my team mate, but don't want to give them the babblers (I want to be battle gorge damn it). Essentially, you will now have 4 different ways to direct babblers based on heal and spit (2 different abilities). But the bait ball is much simpler.
vomit the bait ball to that area - babblers attack things in that area (this covers 1 and 2 of your suggestion)
vomit the bait ball to a team mate - babblers attach themselves to that teammate
vomit the bait ball to a wall and on me - babblers attach to me (!!Battle Gorge)
Granted, babblers are not the brightest alien life form. Given they are all teeth and no brain, I am not surprised.
edit: addressed to Cuel when it should be Blarney_Stone
@Cannon_FodderAUS Fair enough, I just think the baitball is hard to direct to where you want it to go because it drops so fast. If it was a straight line hitscan type thing I'd be cool with it.
On another note, new changes! Here's what they are, and what I think of them
-?? unleashed alien commander (once again): moved drifter abilities to assist menu, can now directly be placed anywhere without the need of a nearby drifter, doubled cost
Super confused by this honestly, the sprays worked perfectly fine on the drifter. Drifter micro is already about the only thing that makes khamming more interesting than watching paint dry, so this is a step in the wrong direction. Khamm should be made more interesting, not less. Plus what does the drifter even do anymore? It's just used for building things?
-?? enzyme requires a whip
Having tech linked to whips have been tried and tried and tried and it never works. Seriously, nobody appreciates being forced to build a whip just to get an ability that is completely unrelated to the whip. Keep whips as static defense structures and remove them from the tech tree.
- removed cooldown of nutrient mist
Sure. Can't think of a scenario when mist cooldown has ever affected me, but no need for it to have a cooldown in the first place honestly.
- reduced max required bio mass to 6, increased health bonus accordingly (only 1 upgrade per hive for 35 t.res, makes dropping a hive or upgrading bio mass more meaningful)
Six of one, half dozen of the other. Not sure why the biomass tree even needed to change, as I think it works fine with nine. But despite seeming like change for the sake of change, this doesn't seem like it will massively change much (other than forcing us to learn new tier levels for every ability. Again.)
-?? added experimental skulk tier 1 ability "Tumor": costs 2 p.res, sacrifice your life and create a tumor which marks all enemies in range
So its an obs that you pay 2 pres and kill yourself for? Seems kinda weird. I haven't had problems scouting as aliens tbh, don't think this is needed
- changed heal wave to be a ranged ability (projectile is being shot to weakest unit and heals all units in range upon impact)
This is another one where I feel like it's a change just for the hell of it. Never thought heal wave needed to be changed, but I guess this would be fine too. Probably won't change very much
-? ink affects now all alien in range and makes them harder to see
Cool. Ink needed a buff to make it something other than just anti-ARCs. Sounds good to me.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2013
Skulks could use a better combat-oriented Pres purchased ability, especially to even the odds against large groups of marines. Marines have grenades and welders that dramatically boost their combat effectiveness. I don't think suicide observatory (Tumor) does the trick.
It would make more sense if Whips are affected by Enzyme, in similar manner to other alien buff abilities.
-?? unleashed alien commander (once again): moved drifter abilities to assist menu, can now directly be placed anywhere without the need of a nearby drifter, doubled cost
Super confused by this honestly, the sprays worked perfectly fine on the drifter. Drifter micro is already about the only thing that makes khamming more interesting than watching paint dry, so this is a step in the wrong direction. Khamm should be made more interesting, not less. Plus what does the drifter even do anymore? It's just used for building things?
I don't think heavy unit micromanagement has ever been a source of fun gameplay in NS2. NPC units just don't control that well, and most commanders are FPS players first, and thus mediocre at best at controlling them. The net effect is that drifter abilities are rarely used by most khamms, which if anything makes khamm gameplay more boring.
As far as Pres abilities for lifeforms, I'd rather see an ability to invest Pres to have an "advanced" (Evolved?) lifeform with more armor and energy (not energy regen) possibly based on biomass, and one special trait. This upgrade would be bought the same way as upgrades
Something like:
Skulk
3 Pres, and stronger effects from passives
Gorge:
5 Pres, and 2 more hydras (not free)
Lerk;
10 Pres, and no tracers/larger Dot on poison bite
Fade:
15 Pres, and cheaper blink cost
Onos:
20 Pres, and increased turning while charging
@sewlek Small suggestion. Make the babbler damage higher when they hit marines. They are a minor annoyance on the ground which makes them only useful as a shield, or to harass structures. It would mix things up more if marines were afraid that one hit that babblers occasionally get causes high damage. I don't mind babblers being stupid, just make them a bit more dangerous.
I'm kinda curious why the upgrade-system got changed again. I ilkeed it better in the last iteration with the different tier upgrades seperated. So for example instead of just unlocking the whole skulk-lifeform with one upgrade you first upgrade leap once you reached the biomass upgrade and after that you can research xeno with a new biomass-requirement (or choose not to). The same basic concept but few more choices for the comm
Comments
I'd rather have arms lab visually showing on the model the upgrades' level and aliens could scout to find out. You can estimate biomass by the number of hives, again, hives could visually evolve into another, more advanced model using biomass.
I'd also be all for knocking over a clog wall as an onos charging (pet peeve is the solid wall of clogs)
Hidden modifiers is not a problem for the other team generally, its a problem when your own team has no idea how something functions. Weapon and Armor upgrades are quite clearly indicated, and are extremely basic in function (more damage, more health). Compare that to something like cluster grenades completely destroying clogs and hydras but doing almost nothing to other alien structures and your just asking for confusion.
How about: The marine comm can see the the biomass level by scanning/scouting the hive. In the same way the khamm should see the upgrades when selecting the armslab after it got spotted by an alien.
Arms lab could be subtitled with the levels, when you look at it.
The hologram on the model always shows Armor 2 (not sure), changing it to 1 and 3 (a bigger font too) wouldn't be much of a problem I think, and it could interchange showing the Weapon level every 5 seconds or so, the scout would have to stay a while in the base for full info.
Don't quote me on this, but I think there is a subtle change on the alien hive that tells its biomass level (but afaik it is per hive, and not cumulative)
Should I continue to report on the Workshop Page or here on the Forums?...or both?
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2147333/#Comment_2147333
What I suggest, is that the research for Shotguns and Grenades be combined into a single research (same as Advanced Weapons)
This will help expand the versatility of the marine's play style, as well as add more Pres sinks to avoid "Tech Explosions" from the marines.
Also, we would see more grenade usage, which would simply be awsome
=-=-=-=-=
As a side note, with this upgrade, the Arms Lab researches could be tied into them as well.
*For Instance:
can get a1/w1 without armory upgrades
can get a2/w2 with Augmented Arsenal
can get a3/w3 with Advanced Weapons
Im not to sure how well this would work, but just throwing it out there for consideration
Then I want you to Comm all my games
i hardly ever see them researched as a priority.
I really liked how it was before in 251, where you could skip upgrades you don't need at the moment.
Anyway, at least you can get stuff without investing in everything lifeform possibly has now. It's good that you can get shadow step without paying for vortex and stab.
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/132205/power-surge-should-be-a-button-on-powered-structures#latest
Add a power surge icon to all powered structures.
spit at an enemy or building - babblers attack that thing
spit at the ground - babblers go to where you spit
heal teammate - babblers attach themselves to that teammate
look down and heal self - babblers attach to you
You are right, maybe I should've worded my post a bit different.
This mechanic of attaching buildings together does not feel intuitive to me. Maybe this is just because it is not used anywhere else.
How is this simple lol. I want babblers to do what I tell them
@Blarney_Stone. I am afraid your suggestion is making it more complicated. What if I want to heal my team mate, but don't want to give them the babblers (I want to be battle gorge damn it). Essentially, you will now have 4 different ways to direct babblers based on heal and spit (2 different abilities). But the bait ball is much simpler.
vomit the bait ball to that area - babblers attack things in that area (this covers 1 and 2 of your suggestion)
vomit the bait ball to a team mate - babblers attach themselves to that teammate
vomit the bait ball to a wall and on me - babblers attach to me (!!Battle Gorge)
Granted, babblers are not the brightest alien life form. Given they are all teeth and no brain, I am not surprised.
edit: addressed to Cuel when it should be Blarney_Stone
On another note, new changes! Here's what they are, and what I think of them
-?? unleashed alien commander (once again): moved drifter abilities to assist menu, can now directly be placed anywhere without the need of a nearby drifter, doubled cost
Super confused by this honestly, the sprays worked perfectly fine on the drifter. Drifter micro is already about the only thing that makes khamming more interesting than watching paint dry, so this is a step in the wrong direction. Khamm should be made more interesting, not less. Plus what does the drifter even do anymore? It's just used for building things?
-?? enzyme requires a whip
Having tech linked to whips have been tried and tried and tried and it never works. Seriously, nobody appreciates being forced to build a whip just to get an ability that is completely unrelated to the whip. Keep whips as static defense structures and remove them from the tech tree.
- removed cooldown of nutrient mist
Sure. Can't think of a scenario when mist cooldown has ever affected me, but no need for it to have a cooldown in the first place honestly.
- reduced max required bio mass to 6, increased health bonus accordingly (only 1 upgrade per hive for 35 t.res, makes dropping a hive or upgrading bio mass more meaningful)
Six of one, half dozen of the other. Not sure why the biomass tree even needed to change, as I think it works fine with nine. But despite seeming like change for the sake of change, this doesn't seem like it will massively change much (other than forcing us to learn new tier levels for every ability. Again.)
-?? added experimental skulk tier 1 ability "Tumor": costs 2 p.res, sacrifice your life and create a tumor which marks all enemies in range
So its an obs that you pay 2 pres and kill yourself for? Seems kinda weird. I haven't had problems scouting as aliens tbh, don't think this is needed
- changed heal wave to be a ranged ability (projectile is being shot to weakest unit and heals all units in range upon impact)
This is another one where I feel like it's a change just for the hell of it. Never thought heal wave needed to be changed, but I guess this would be fine too. Probably won't change very much
-? ink affects now all alien in range and makes them harder to see
Cool. Ink needed a buff to make it something other than just anti-ARCs. Sounds good to me.
It would make more sense if Whips are affected by Enzyme, in similar manner to other alien buff abilities.
I don't think heavy unit micromanagement has ever been a source of fun gameplay in NS2. NPC units just don't control that well, and most commanders are FPS players first, and thus mediocre at best at controlling them. The net effect is that drifter abilities are rarely used by most khamms, which if anything makes khamm gameplay more boring.
Something like:
Skulk
3 Pres, and stronger effects from passives
Gorge:
5 Pres, and 2 more hydras (not free)
Lerk;
10 Pres, and no tracers/larger Dot on poison bite
Fade:
15 Pres, and cheaper blink cost
Onos:
20 Pres, and increased turning while charging