like the people of my country say, br? hue hue hue "9999"
I honestly wonder why the Free to Play model is always brought up so fervently whenever great games go on Free Weekend promotions... anyone noticed this trend?
Making the game free-to-play necessitates purchasable advantages to enable any kind of revenue stream, ruining the game for those of us who have already paid far more than the 75%-off sale price. At least with the once-a-month sales, UWE gets some solid, non-refundable cash flows, the new players having spent some money for the full game will try to stick to it and learn the ropes properly, and the vets can stay away until the intolerable idiots rage quit out, never to be seen again.
No, Free to play does NOT necessitate pay to win. What it does do however is make pay to win extraordinarily lucrative. Not necessary, but you you would be hard pressed to find anyone with a business degree who wouldn't put it in anyway.
I think that this game is well worth the asking price. It is a valued craft, and I feel that the developers deserve the small cost to play, as it is well worth it, when compared to the enjoyment you can gt from the game.
I wouldn't like to pay less for it, because I would like for the developers to get something for their hard work. And the buying price pays for the free updates!
Have you guys checked the Steam discussion page recently? There are so many threads on there with people begging for free copies of the game to be gifted to them.
I bought this game at full price, others paid even more for beta access, and yet more people even voluntary took part in the Reinforcement program. It is now available for just a few bucks. All those threads sound like total crap. Some people even cite reasons for pecuniary insufficiency as being recent full price pre-order of new games and also having spendthrift relationship partners.
Someone needs to tell them: if you don't have money for a game, tough. Stop mooching.
I think these free weekends are attracting the absolute worst crowd. Let us pray they don't make the game F2P.
Making the game free-to-play necessitates purchasable advantages to enable any kind of revenue stream, ruining the game for those of us who have already paid far more than the 75%-off sale price. At least with the once-a-month sales, UWE gets some solid, non-refundable cash flows, the new players having spent some money for the full game will try to stick to it and learn the ropes properly, and the vets can stay away until the intolerable idiots rage quit out, never to be seen again.
No, Free to play does NOT necessitate pay to win. What it does do however is make pay to win extraordinarily lucrative. Not necessary, but you you would be hard pressed to find anyone with a business degree who wouldn't put it in anyway.
Your comment only goes to show how useless a business degree is.
game is filled with ads and requires premium sub to get most of the stuff you'd need
warsow on the other hand is free and imo better
Agreed, and in any case, ad-model will be a big fail for NS2 because the audience is so tiny. Don't think that making the game free will actually increase players sufficiently to warrant high advertising rates: even at the peak of the free weekend, peak players didn't reach the level of the Gorgeous free weekend. Face it, people aren't coming to the game because they don't like what they've seen (or heard about re: performance), and not because they don't know about it/price. @biz: deal with that.
NS2 does not have to be F2P but that doesn't mean UWE can't sell cosmetics to have sustained income. If you know how the Steam Workshop systems works, you would realise how everyone benefits from it:
-Modders get a plattform, acknowledgement if their content is accepted by the devs and even cash if their stuff is bought.
-Players can customize their characters and contribute to the longlivity of the game
-Developers see the lifespan of their product increased by new fan-made content + get a share of the sales
I myself was very sceptical about Valves Steam Economy but it really is a good and fair way of dealing with the dilemma of copyright holders vs modders. Compared to paying 2,5$ for a key, paying 75$ for a skin is quite steep. Most people are reluctant when it comes to making big purchases, especially on something like virtual goods. People are more likely to pay these 75$ and more if you make them pay in portions over time, heck why do you think leasing and all these payment plans has gotten so successful.
Have you guys checked the Steam discussion page recently? There are so many threads on there with people begging for free copies of the game to be gifted to them.
I bought this game at full price, others paid even more for beta access, and yet more people even voluntary took part in the Reinforcement program. It is now available for just a few bucks. All those threads sound like total crap. Some people even cite reasons for pecuniary insufficiency as being recent full price pre-order of new games and also having spendthrift relationship partners.
Someone needs to tell them: if you don't have money for a game, tough. Stop mooching.
I think these free weekends are attracting the absolute worst crowd. Let us pray they don't make the game F2P.
And they play with top of the line PCs...
... wait...
The problem with a free to play model, especially for this game, is that there will be a massive influx of players unwilling to learn the mechanics which take time and effort to understand. This leads to very frustrating matches filled with people who don't understand a thing they're doing. Free to play games need to be relatively easy to pick up and play for a new player, and Natural Selection just isn't that at all.
Currently most players are basically jumping on the hate-F2P bandwagon, and I don't actually understand why it is looked down upon so much.
Is it because F2P implies and pay-to-win?
Well, League of Legends has shown how you can have a successful F2P model basically with no pay 2 win (or very little arguably with their IP system)
Is it because F2P will bring in a flood of rookies and decrease the quality of the average game?
Well again LOL and Dota2 has solved this by having matchmaking and a separate ranked match system for the hardcore players.
Is it because F2P and microtransactions are "dodgy" somehow in the way it that it gouges players by forcing them to pay to unlock more content once they're hooked?
Well, that's certainly the predominant way many F2P games are marketed, but there are prominent exceptions.
In my opinion, there are creative solutions for F2P as long as UWE are willing to look for them. For instance TF2 has tickets that people can buy to play in higher quality servers.
I think that if NS2 were to go F2P the best justified way of getting revenue would be through the upcoming Organised Play Systems.... basically let players pay to play in the best quality, best organised servers.
In fact, as I've suggested elsewhere, try having specially organised weekly "campaigns" where players can buy tickets to play on teams in sanctioned matches. The level of play will likely be very good as you are playing with other players who have willingly paid, and the game experience is bound to be more even and exciting, since these kind of games will draw in a self-selected crowd.
There are so many variables involved in F2P that make it much more complex than you think.
First of all are MOBA games much more suited for that kind of business model, so you can't just hold LoL and DotA up for a comparison with NS2.
MOBAs offer the perfect ground to offer small bits of new gameplay (in the form of new heroes and their abilities) that fits without much disruption into the existing gameplay. There are a lot of gameplay variables that allow to create a lot of different characters and abilities without introducing redundancy. Characters don't even need to be perfectly balanced, since the leveling system allows to design characters so that some are more powerful but have to wait until the lategame for that.
Good luck finding enough gameplay niches in NS2 that allow for a constant supply of new mechanics without introducing redundancy and while still keeping the whole game in balance and without introducing a P2W-gap to players who don't have that content.
MOBAs are also played from a top-down perspective, so the character models don't need to be as detailed as new cosmetics in a game like NS2 would have to be. Which means they are easier to produce. They just need to throw some fancy particle effects together with the skin and it will sell well. And Valve is a huge developer, with far more artists than UWE could hold up to. Plus they started to outsource that kind of content creation to the community.
If UWE was to use a microtransaction system via Steam, they would have to pay Valve a cut (something Valve obviously doesn't have to do with TF2). If they had their own system, it would still create additional expenses for them.
F2P is only viable with a large enough player base. We are talking about millions of players minimum here. Less than 1% of all F2P players ever actually purchases something in the game. That means that 1% of the player base will hopefully spend enough money to cover the costs that you have for providing the game as a service to the other 99% as well.
And in the end you have to provide something that players will actually want to buy instead of playing the game for free. That means you basically HAVE to put something unlockable in the game. (Which is already against one of UWE's design principles: every player has the same chances in every match, there is no metagame progress, skill is the only deciding factor). Cosmetics alone are simply not gonna cut it.
Super MNC tried that route. It had a really fair F2P model, absolutely no P2W, solely relying on cosmetics (and temporary boosters that allowed you to gain the ingame currency faster, which was used to unlock the heroes and some minor upgrades that barely had any effect). They had to abandon support for their game because it was just not paying out and are working on Planetary Annihilation now.
Assuming that kind of unlockable stuff would exist: you would have to make it grindy enough to make some people want to rather pay cash to shortcut the time to get it, rather than just waiting for it. Tribes Ascend did that and look at them now: the very last patch they ever did to their game was to introduce a $15 DLC that unlocks all stuff right away, after realizing that their F2P model simply didn't work out for such a kind of game. It's basically just a normal 1-purchase game now.
First of all are MOBA games much more suited for that kind of business model, so you can't just hold LoL and DotA up for a comparison with NS2.
MOBAs offer the perfect ground to offer small bits of new gameplay (in the form of new heroes and their abilities) that fits without much disruption into the existing gameplay. There are a lot of gameplay variables that allow to create a lot of different characters and abilities without introducing redundancy. Characters don't even need to be perfectly balanced, since the leveling system allows to design characters so that some are more powerful but have to wait until the lategame for that.
Good luck finding enough gameplay niches in NS2 that allow for a constant supply of new mechanics without introducing redundancy and while still keeping the whole game in balance and without introducing a P2W-gap to players who don't have that content.
The only things DOTA 2 players can buy are cosmetics and tickets to watch progames. Taking this to NS2 would mean NS2 players could buy skins and models for their characters that every other player on the server would see and recognize. Basically the same what the reinforcement models or the black armor already did. Edit: And in the future possibly something like HLTV where you could pay to watch competetive games in the game client (and look wherever you want instead of just watching a stream).
MOBAs are also played from a top-down perspective, so the character models don't need to be as detailed as new cosmetics in a game like NS2 would have to be. Which means they are easier to produce. They just need to throw some fancy particle effects together with the skin and it will sell well. And Valve is a huge developer, with far more artists than UWE could hold up to. Plus they started to outsource that kind of content creation to the community.
Probably NS2 models are more work intensive to make but as you state, UWE does not have to make them by themselves. The steam workshop is full with custom made models/skins/crosshairs/etc. so where is the problem?
If UWE was to use a microtransaction system via Steam, they would have to pay Valve a cut (something Valve obviously doesn't have to do with TF2). If they had their own system, it would still create additional expenses for them.
Certainly, Valve deserves a cut for providing the infrastructure and plattform for the microtransactions. As you may remember some month ago, dealing with credit card payments does not always go smoothly and if there is a similar problem with scammers it will be Valve who has to deal with it.
F2P is only viable with a large enough player base. We are talking about millions of players minimum here. Less than 1% of all F2P players ever actually purchases something in the game. That means that 1% of the player base will hopefully spend enough money to cover the costs that you have for providing the game as a service to the other 99% as well.
I would like to know where you get that numbers from, I did a quick internet search and didn't come up with any evidence.
And in the end you have to provide something that players will actually want to buy instead of playing the game for free. That means you basically HAVE to put something unlockable in the game. (Which is already against one of UWE's design principles: every player has the same chances in every match, there is no metagame progress, skill is the only deciding factor). Cosmetics alone are simply not gonna cut it.
How about you put in a black skulk model that obviously everyone will want to have?
F2P = Free Week End forever. No thanks, you will never see me again on this game and never give a single buck to UWE. NS2 is only fun with experienced player, it's not a "hey let's play and make some frag" it's "let's play and build our victory together".
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Have you guys checked the Steam discussion page recently? There are so many threads on there with people begging for free copies of the game to be gifted to them.
I bought this game at full price, others paid even more for beta access, and yet more people even voluntary took part in the Reinforcement program. It is now available for just a few bucks. All those threads sound like total crap. Some people even cite reasons for pecuniary insufficiency as being recent full price pre-order of new games and also having spendthrift relationship partners.
Someone needs to tell them: if you don't have money for a game, tough. Stop mooching.
I think these free weekends are attracting the absolute worst crowd. Let us pray they don't make the game F2P.
Making the game free-to-play necessitates purchasable advantages to enable any kind of revenue stream, ruining the game for those of us who have already paid far more than the 75%-off sale price. At least with the once-a-month sales, UWE gets some solid, non-refundable cash flows, the new players having spent some money for the full game will try to stick to it and learn the ropes properly, and the vets can stay away until the intolerable idiots rage quit out, never to be seen again.
No, Free to play does NOT necessitate pay to win. What it does do however is make pay to win extraordinarily lucrative. Not necessary, but you you would be hard pressed to find anyone with a business degree who wouldn't put it in anyway.
Your comment only goes to show how useless a business degree is.
game is filled with ads and requires premium sub to get most of the stuff you'd need
warsow on the other hand is free and imo better
Agreed, and in any case, ad-model will be a big fail for NS2 because the audience is so tiny. Don't think that making the game free will actually increase players sufficiently to warrant high advertising rates: even at the peak of the free weekend, peak players didn't reach the level of the Gorgeous free weekend. Face it, people aren't coming to the game because they don't like what they've seen (or heard about re: performance), and not because they don't know about it/price. @biz: deal with that.
I was trying to refer to the people who don't see the game as anything more than a revenue stream, the business types generally in charge of bigger or just greedier companies. The way I went about it was obviously a very ineffective shorthand. One would hope that everyone at UWE cares more about the quality of the game but it pays to keep a more cynical world view.
Anyway, given a choice between an endless sea of greens or a ghost town, I'll take the greens every time. In the weeks prior to this free weekend I could not find acceptably low ping servers to join most of the time, I was essentially unable to play the game at all.
Of course, I would rather see NS2 die completely then for them to add one single p2w option.
@bERt0r:
I've been with Tribes Ascend and Super MNC through their entire life spans, from beta through release until abandonment by the developers. And at least the guys at Uber Entertainment were pretty open towards their community about their inner workings, statistics and reasoning behind certain business decisions. You could try to find some of these posts in their forum, but it seems to be configured in a way that posts are deleted after a certain time span (some of their early change log threads are gone already).
In general do I keep an eye out for all the things going on in the game development industry, since I make games for a living as well.
As for skins: People usually expect some modifications to the model itself if they pay money for it. Not just skins.
Another reasoning in the past from UWE was that adding more custom models like the Deluxe or Black Armor were harder than you might think. They don't have a system for that in place and would need a unique Steam Product ID for each content piece from Valve, which is not that easy to get. Perhaps this changed with the Reinforced stuff.
Certainly, Valve deserves a cut for providing the infrastructure and plattform for the microtransactions. As you may remember some month ago, dealing with credit card payments does not always go smoothly and if there is a similar problem with scammers it will be Valve who has to deal with it.
The point of my post in regards to a cut that Valve or other Workshop-contributors would take was that it reduces the actual gain for UWE. And in the end they still have to see if the whole thing would actually pay out for what expenses it causes.
How about you put in a black skulk model that obviously everyone will want to have?
It's not "obviously everyone" if you break it down to the whole player base, especially in F2P games. Forum members are just a vocal minority and even then does it depend a lot on the pricing point.
Besides that once you have one skin for a lifeform, you are much less inclined to get another one for it. MOBAs can create the need for more skins by introducing just more characters. NS2 not so much.
And the more people have some kind of skin on their Skulk, the less valuable the skin will seem to others. The Shadow Skulk is so high in demand because it's the only skin for a Skulk thus far and costs $75, which means that there are not that many players who will buy it. I am pretty sure that they would have sold less of that one if there had been a Skulk skin available before as DLC for perhaps $7.50.
Pubs are always going to be retarded. If it would increase the player base and bring in some more comp dudes Im all for it.
comp tf2 is without all of the litter that was caused by the f2p model I think, no reason to just ban everything non-vanilla from comp ns2 as well. Good shit.
We don't need free-to-play, at least not in the immediate future. The only consideration from my PoV would be an optional store that only has cosmetics available. The focus needs to shift towards this sense of player progression and I believe UWE are discussing this as a potential development project. In addition, keep improving the player retention rate by improving the newbie > frequent pubber gap and they are already doing a good job at it.
The future looks bright for NS2. There are a lot of supporters for the Reinforcement program (which is an awesome idea for this style of game), new content is coming out, player retention seems to be improving and the community is passionate and respectful, mostly. As long as they focus on the technical hiccups and get performance back to 249 and perhaps even improve beyond that, NS2 is looking to have a stable playerbase and a bright future.
Free-to-play at this point would not only be a huge risk but may also damage the game beyond repair. The community may disintegrate and devolve. It's too risky and too unnecessary. Game needs to either be released with F2P in mind or be stable enough to make the transition to F2P. That's why MMOs go F2P because it's a model that both works for MMOs and they have a number statistic of reliable subscribers.
@CrushaK I just wanted to make clear that I am not for NS2 going F2P, I was just curious about that 1% remark you made. I assume then you have this info from Monday Night Combat which is a game I don't know. Quite frankly, I despise most F2P games, especially when the P2W aspect becomes apparent (just tried out one of those browser games again, yuck).
As for the green weekend forever, guess why we have the skill tracking mechanisms now. A proper matchmaking system, resolves the problems of playing with people outside of you skillrange at least to a certain degree. Besides I for one have no problem playing with beginners as long as the team are fairly balanced skillwise.
So why am I making the case for comsetics? Even though i was an ardent hater of cosmetics, microtransactions and the game itself, once I tried out Dota 2 the addiction of collecting those items really got me. Due to the pro scene having their International 3, I found myself spending about the same amount of money I did for NS2. Valve changed my mind about this issue, if done right, microtransactions and cosmetics can help sustain development on a game during it's lifetime without forcing the player into paying to win.
I know introducing such a system would take a lot of development time and I don't know how techinically feasable it would be after all, I just dont like to see the option dismissed blindly.
HAHAHA LOL. This is the funniest post I have seen today. This game will never be F2P. Ever.
First of all, F2P games generally mean you will have more little kids in the game (compared to paid games), which generally means they are less skilled, which cannot happen due to the skill-requirement of this game.
2nd, the devs are not getting much money from the reinforcement program and if you say that f2p games generally increase donations, then you are right. However, this is not a very popular game, and f2p should generally be done only for popular games. That's why you see popular games either turn f2p (TF2), or their sequels become f2p (blacklight and tribes). Since the devs don't have an overwhelming amount of money, they don't want to take the risk either.
3rd, is the increase of annoying trolls, little kids (going to first reason), players without teamwork, etc.
I can give more reasons, but no one likes a long list.
just pay for the game you freeloading cheap skates.
That's not the issue here. Probably everyone in this thread has already paid for the game, many of us have bought copies for our friends as well and some have even donated to the reinforcement or constellation program.
The problem is that the game is slowly dying. UWE has been doing nearly everything they can to delay that with sales and free weekends, but in the end it's only a matter of time until it's gone. F2P is the final solution.
just pay for the game you freeloading cheap skates.
That's not the issue here. Probably everyone in this thread has already paid for the game, many of us have bought copies for our friends as well and some have even donated to the reinforcement or constellation program.
The problem is that the game is slowly dying. UWE has been doing nearly everything they can to delay that with sales and free weekends, but in the end it's only a matter of time until it's gone. F2P is the final solution.
Then the issue isnt that people have to pay for the game, since plenty have done that. its that the game fails to keep peoples attention. Address the issue, dont just attempt to throw more people at it and hope some stick.
How about a hybrid - where NS2 is free to play for a week (i.e. trial players) and players are restricted to f2p servers? Normal (paid) players can join f2p servers too. This effectively keeps the noobs and casuals away from the core audience.
I think NS2 could replicate exactly what MOBAs are doing and be extremely succesful and get great ROI out of it. Cosmetics hardly stand out in MOBA's compared to NS2 imo, when I install a skin in ns2 it stands out so much. Look at the black armor, almost everyone.
Most people agree that MOBA are the shittiest spectator game and the e-sport success is mostly due to the stellar execution and amount of money spent on the competitive scene. NS2 is way more captivating as a spectator game IMO. It has the starcraft effect of watching well executed strategies unfold, and a awe inspiring display of skill that only old school FPS could bring.
We don't need free-to-play, at least not in the immediate future. The only consideration from my PoV would be an optional store that only has cosmetics available. The focus needs to shift towards this sense of player progression and I believe UWE are discussing this as a potential development project. In addition, keep improving the player retention rate by improving the newbie > frequent pubber gap and they are already doing a good job at it.
The future looks bright for NS2. There are a lot of supporters for the Reinforcement program (which is an awesome idea for this style of game), new content is coming out, player retention seems to be improving and the community is passionate and respectful, mostly. As long as they focus on the technical hiccups and get performance back to 249 and perhaps even improve beyond that, NS2 is looking to have a stable playerbase and a bright future.
Free-to-play at this point would not only be a huge risk but may also damage the game beyond repair. The community may disintegrate and devolve. It's too risky and too unnecessary. Game needs to either be released with F2P in mind or be stable enough to make the transition to F2P. That's why MMOs go F2P because it's a model that both works for MMOs and they have a number statistic of reliable subscribers.
No, actually MMOs go free to play because players are content. The games are first and foremost a form of social interaction and without anybody to interact with there is no reason to play and therefor pay for the game. When an MMO's playerbase drops below an acceptable minimum they tend to go free to play as a last ditch effort in order to revive the game and therefor keep makeing money. Going free to play is a sign that the game is FAILING and UNSTABLE.
just pay for the game you freeloading cheap skates.
That's not the issue here. Probably everyone in this thread has already paid for the game, many of us have bought copies for our friends as well and some have even donated to the reinforcement or constellation program.
The problem is that the game is slowly dying. UWE has been doing nearly everything they can to delay that with sales and free weekends, but in the end it's only a matter of time until it's gone. F2P is the final solution.
Why the fuck do you always say "NS2 is dying" ? It's complete bullshit ! 99% of the multiplayer games lose people over time, it´s simply the way it works and plenty of them don't die and are still here many years after. NS2 will always keep a sufficient core playerbase like it was for NS1, it´s a good thing in fact because the people who stay are the people who enjoy the game, who know it and the guys with you make the funniest and most interesting matches. Less people there are, happier I am because it means I can play without autistic guys or complète noobs, two types of players which are in constant flow in a F2P game.
just pay for the game you freeloading cheap skates.
That's not the issue here. Probably everyone in this thread has already paid for the game, many of us have bought copies for our friends as well and some have even donated to the reinforcement or constellation program.
The problem is that the game is slowly dying. UWE has been doing nearly everything they can to delay that with sales and free weekends, but in the end it's only a matter of time until it's gone. F2P is the final solution.
Why the fuck do you always say "NS2 is dying" ? It's complete bullshit ! 99% of the multiplayer games lose people over time, it´s simply the way it works and plenty of them don't die and are still here many years after. NS2 will always keep a sufficient core playerbase like it was for NS1, it´s a good thing in fact because the people who stay are the people who enjoy the game, who know it and the guys with you make the funniest and most interesting matches. Less people there are, happier I am because it means I can play without autistic guys or complète noobs, two types of players which are in constant flow in a F2P game.
99% of multiplayer games DO die eventually. If you can't find a public game to play on it's dead, definition of. NS2 barely had enough players just last week for me to find a game to play on with non-red (unplayable) ping at peak fucking hours. If reinforced and the free weekend hadn't happened then as far as it matters for me the game simply wouldn't be there for me anymore, and not for lack of wanting to play it. NS2 is on life support. Maybe people will still be there for your elitist gathers but the rest of us? It'll be nothing but a memory.
Comments
like the people of my country say, br? hue hue hue "9999"
I honestly wonder why the Free to Play model is always brought up so fervently whenever great games go on Free Weekend promotions... anyone noticed this trend?
No, Free to play does NOT necessitate pay to win. What it does do however is make pay to win extraordinarily lucrative. Not necessary, but you you would be hard pressed to find anyone with a business degree who wouldn't put it in anyway.
I wouldn't like to pay less for it, because I would like for the developers to get something for their hard work. And the buying price pays for the free updates!
game is filled with ads and requires premium sub to get most of the stuff you'd need
warsow on the other hand is free and imo better
I bought this game at full price, others paid even more for beta access, and yet more people even voluntary took part in the Reinforcement program. It is now available for just a few bucks. All those threads sound like total crap. Some people even cite reasons for pecuniary insufficiency as being recent full price pre-order of new games and also having spendthrift relationship partners.
Someone needs to tell them: if you don't have money for a game, tough. Stop mooching.
I think these free weekends are attracting the absolute worst crowd. Let us pray they don't make the game F2P.
Your comment only goes to show how useless a business degree is.
Agreed, and in any case, ad-model will be a big fail for NS2 because the audience is so tiny. Don't think that making the game free will actually increase players sufficiently to warrant high advertising rates: even at the peak of the free weekend, peak players didn't reach the level of the Gorgeous free weekend. Face it, people aren't coming to the game because they don't like what they've seen (or heard about re: performance), and not because they don't know about it/price.
@biz: deal with that.
-Modders get a plattform, acknowledgement if their content is accepted by the devs and even cash if their stuff is bought.
-Players can customize their characters and contribute to the longlivity of the game
-Developers see the lifespan of their product increased by new fan-made content + get a share of the sales
I myself was very sceptical about Valves Steam Economy but it really is a good and fair way of dealing with the dilemma of copyright holders vs modders. Compared to paying 2,5$ for a key, paying 75$ for a skin is quite steep. Most people are reluctant when it comes to making big purchases, especially on something like virtual goods. People are more likely to pay these 75$ and more if you make them pay in portions over time, heck why do you think leasing and all these payment plans has gotten so successful.
And they play with top of the line PCs...
... wait...
There are so many variables involved in F2P that make it much more complex than you think.
First of all are MOBA games much more suited for that kind of business model, so you can't just hold LoL and DotA up for a comparison with NS2.
MOBAs offer the perfect ground to offer small bits of new gameplay (in the form of new heroes and their abilities) that fits without much disruption into the existing gameplay. There are a lot of gameplay variables that allow to create a lot of different characters and abilities without introducing redundancy. Characters don't even need to be perfectly balanced, since the leveling system allows to design characters so that some are more powerful but have to wait until the lategame for that.
Good luck finding enough gameplay niches in NS2 that allow for a constant supply of new mechanics without introducing redundancy and while still keeping the whole game in balance and without introducing a P2W-gap to players who don't have that content.
MOBAs are also played from a top-down perspective, so the character models don't need to be as detailed as new cosmetics in a game like NS2 would have to be. Which means they are easier to produce. They just need to throw some fancy particle effects together with the skin and it will sell well. And Valve is a huge developer, with far more artists than UWE could hold up to. Plus they started to outsource that kind of content creation to the community.
If UWE was to use a microtransaction system via Steam, they would have to pay Valve a cut (something Valve obviously doesn't have to do with TF2). If they had their own system, it would still create additional expenses for them.
F2P is only viable with a large enough player base. We are talking about millions of players minimum here. Less than 1% of all F2P players ever actually purchases something in the game. That means that 1% of the player base will hopefully spend enough money to cover the costs that you have for providing the game as a service to the other 99% as well.
And in the end you have to provide something that players will actually want to buy instead of playing the game for free. That means you basically HAVE to put something unlockable in the game. (Which is already against one of UWE's design principles: every player has the same chances in every match, there is no metagame progress, skill is the only deciding factor). Cosmetics alone are simply not gonna cut it.
Super MNC tried that route. It had a really fair F2P model, absolutely no P2W, solely relying on cosmetics (and temporary boosters that allowed you to gain the ingame currency faster, which was used to unlock the heroes and some minor upgrades that barely had any effect). They had to abandon support for their game because it was just not paying out and are working on Planetary Annihilation now.
Assuming that kind of unlockable stuff would exist: you would have to make it grindy enough to make some people want to rather pay cash to shortcut the time to get it, rather than just waiting for it. Tribes Ascend did that and look at them now: the very last patch they ever did to their game was to introduce a $15 DLC that unlocks all stuff right away, after realizing that their F2P model simply didn't work out for such a kind of game. It's basically just a normal 1-purchase game now.
Probably NS2 models are more work intensive to make but as you state, UWE does not have to make them by themselves. The steam workshop is full with custom made models/skins/crosshairs/etc. so where is the problem?
Certainly, Valve deserves a cut for providing the infrastructure and plattform for the microtransactions. As you may remember some month ago, dealing with credit card payments does not always go smoothly and if there is a similar problem with scammers it will be Valve who has to deal with it.
I would like to know where you get that numbers from, I did a quick internet search and didn't come up with any evidence.
How about you put in a black skulk model that obviously everyone will want to have?
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I was trying to refer to the people who don't see the game as anything more than a revenue stream, the business types generally in charge of bigger or just greedier companies. The way I went about it was obviously a very ineffective shorthand. One would hope that everyone at UWE cares more about the quality of the game but it pays to keep a more cynical world view.
Anyway, given a choice between an endless sea of greens or a ghost town, I'll take the greens every time. In the weeks prior to this free weekend I could not find acceptably low ping servers to join most of the time, I was essentially unable to play the game at all.
Of course, I would rather see NS2 die completely then for them to add one single p2w option.
I've been with Tribes Ascend and Super MNC through their entire life spans, from beta through release until abandonment by the developers. And at least the guys at Uber Entertainment were pretty open towards their community about their inner workings, statistics and reasoning behind certain business decisions. You could try to find some of these posts in their forum, but it seems to be configured in a way that posts are deleted after a certain time span (some of their early change log threads are gone already).
In general do I keep an eye out for all the things going on in the game development industry, since I make games for a living as well.
As for skins: People usually expect some modifications to the model itself if they pay money for it. Not just skins.
Another reasoning in the past from UWE was that adding more custom models like the Deluxe or Black Armor were harder than you might think. They don't have a system for that in place and would need a unique Steam Product ID for each content piece from Valve, which is not that easy to get. Perhaps this changed with the Reinforced stuff.
The point of my post in regards to a cut that Valve or other Workshop-contributors would take was that it reduces the actual gain for UWE. And in the end they still have to see if the whole thing would actually pay out for what expenses it causes.
It's not "obviously everyone" if you break it down to the whole player base, especially in F2P games. Forum members are just a vocal minority and even then does it depend a lot on the pricing point.
Besides that once you have one skin for a lifeform, you are much less inclined to get another one for it. MOBAs can create the need for more skins by introducing just more characters. NS2 not so much.
And the more people have some kind of skin on their Skulk, the less valuable the skin will seem to others. The Shadow Skulk is so high in demand because it's the only skin for a Skulk thus far and costs $75, which means that there are not that many players who will buy it. I am pretty sure that they would have sold less of that one if there had been a Skulk skin available before as DLC for perhaps $7.50.
comp tf2 is without all of the litter that was caused by the f2p model I think, no reason to just ban everything non-vanilla from comp ns2 as well. Good shit.
The future looks bright for NS2. There are a lot of supporters for the Reinforcement program (which is an awesome idea for this style of game), new content is coming out, player retention seems to be improving and the community is passionate and respectful, mostly. As long as they focus on the technical hiccups and get performance back to 249 and perhaps even improve beyond that, NS2 is looking to have a stable playerbase and a bright future.
Free-to-play at this point would not only be a huge risk but may also damage the game beyond repair. The community may disintegrate and devolve. It's too risky and too unnecessary. Game needs to either be released with F2P in mind or be stable enough to make the transition to F2P. That's why MMOs go F2P because it's a model that both works for MMOs and they have a number statistic of reliable subscribers.
I take issue with all you clueless morons who start blindly labeling F2P games or F2P game communities as bad/worse
Remember that servers cost money to run so consider donating to your favorites.
As for the green weekend forever, guess why we have the skill tracking mechanisms now. A proper matchmaking system, resolves the problems of playing with people outside of you skillrange at least to a certain degree. Besides I for one have no problem playing with beginners as long as the team are fairly balanced skillwise.
So why am I making the case for comsetics? Even though i was an ardent hater of cosmetics, microtransactions and the game itself, once I tried out Dota 2 the addiction of collecting those items really got me. Due to the pro scene having their International 3, I found myself spending about the same amount of money I did for NS2. Valve changed my mind about this issue, if done right, microtransactions and cosmetics can help sustain development on a game during it's lifetime without forcing the player into paying to win.
I know introducing such a system would take a lot of development time and I don't know how techinically feasable it would be after all, I just dont like to see the option dismissed blindly.
First of all, F2P games generally mean you will have more little kids in the game (compared to paid games), which generally means they are less skilled, which cannot happen due to the skill-requirement of this game.
2nd, the devs are not getting much money from the reinforcement program and if you say that f2p games generally increase donations, then you are right. However, this is not a very popular game, and f2p should generally be done only for popular games. That's why you see popular games either turn f2p (TF2), or their sequels become f2p (blacklight and tribes). Since the devs don't have an overwhelming amount of money, they don't want to take the risk either.
3rd, is the increase of annoying trolls, little kids (going to first reason), players without teamwork, etc.
I can give more reasons, but no one likes a long list.
That's not the issue here. Probably everyone in this thread has already paid for the game, many of us have bought copies for our friends as well and some have even donated to the reinforcement or constellation program.
The problem is that the game is slowly dying. UWE has been doing nearly everything they can to delay that with sales and free weekends, but in the end it's only a matter of time until it's gone. F2P is the final solution.
Ofc I'm not sure that applies when you have decent matchmaking.
Then the issue isnt that people have to pay for the game, since plenty have done that. its that the game fails to keep peoples attention. Address the issue, dont just attempt to throw more people at it and hope some stick.
Most people agree that MOBA are the shittiest spectator game and the e-sport success is mostly due to the stellar execution and amount of money spent on the competitive scene. NS2 is way more captivating as a spectator game IMO. It has the starcraft effect of watching well executed strategies unfold, and a awe inspiring display of skill that only old school FPS could bring.
No, actually MMOs go free to play because players are content. The games are first and foremost a form of social interaction and without anybody to interact with there is no reason to play and therefor pay for the game. When an MMO's playerbase drops below an acceptable minimum they tend to go free to play as a last ditch effort in order to revive the game and therefor keep makeing money. Going free to play is a sign that the game is FAILING and UNSTABLE.
Why the fuck do you always say "NS2 is dying" ? It's complete bullshit ! 99% of the multiplayer games lose people over time, it´s simply the way it works and plenty of them don't die and are still here many years after. NS2 will always keep a sufficient core playerbase like it was for NS1, it´s a good thing in fact because the people who stay are the people who enjoy the game, who know it and the guys with you make the funniest and most interesting matches. Less people there are, happier I am because it means I can play without autistic guys or complète noobs, two types of players which are in constant flow in a F2P game.
99% of multiplayer games DO die eventually. If you can't find a public game to play on it's dead, definition of. NS2 barely had enough players just last week for me to find a game to play on with non-red (unplayable) ping at peak fucking hours. If reinforced and the free weekend hadn't happened then as far as it matters for me the game simply wouldn't be there for me anymore, and not for lack of wanting to play it. NS2 is on life support. Maybe people will still be there for your elitist gathers but the rest of us? It'll be nothing but a memory.