What this game really needs is matchmaking

WingflierWingflier Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183769Members

To my knowledge, the unbalanced nature of the average NS2 game is the one issue that UnknownWorlds has done nothing to address.

There are plenty of popular FPS games out that there 1. Require a fee to play and 2. Are very hostile towards new players.

However, the similarities you will find between almost ALL popular FPS games out there is that they have a working matchmaking system.

This is the one issue that causes the most frustration for new players and veterans alike. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter how many cool new things you add to the game, it doesn't matter how good you make the tutorial, it doesn't matter if you add free to play, it doesn't matter if the graphics are legendary, it doesn't matter if you make the bots so realistic that you can't tell them apart from real people - As long as the game continues to placate and encourage teamstacking and enormously imbalanced teams, it will fall through the cracks.

When I think of the most popular FPS games out there today: Halo, COD, BF3, CS:Go, etc. - They all have matchmaking. Yes, I know they are a lot different than this game but that's not the point. What is the most popular RTS game currently on the market? Starcraft 2. And what does Starcraft 2 have? A wonderful matchmaking system. You take either side of the hybrid genre this game is based on, and by default, the games that are doing the best, have good matchmaking. They are not free to play. They are often extremely difficult on new players. The analysis from the community of why this game is losing users is simply dead wrong. Add matchmaking, do another a free weekend, and watch it grow.

Yes I realize the cost of adding a system like this may be quite considerable, but it is much more important than anything you've added so far. If a MM system had been included in the game at launch, the playerbase would look so much different right now.

I'm sorry, but as a person who has been playing since mid-NS1, it's very easy to tell when a game is over at the 5 minute mark. Why stay and wait another 20 minutes for the game to end, just so I can (most likely) participate in another game that's a stomp? Stomps aren't fun for the winning or losing team, but as I said, I've seen no attempt to address this crucial issue.

Thank you

Comments

  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I'm thinking this is the next step now that ranking is almost done (right?).
  • CmdrKeenCmdrKeen Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185321Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The implementation of a skill rating system (which UWE just did in the recent patch) might be a step in this direction. I imagine there will be the feature soon, that you can sort a server's players based on their skill rating to achieve more balanced teams.

    I currently see two possible problems with this:

    1. It is not so easy to measure the skill of a player, this is not an exact science. As far as I can tell, the skill-calculation in the current patch is not very refined (I might be wrong). IF the calculation bases the skill-rating of a player just on his K/D or something like score-per-minute, then I think this may not be enough. I think you need to factor into the calculation, in what kind of game a player achieved this result (Score 200 in 30 minutes on a public server is something much different than Score 200 in 30 minutes of a tournament match).

    2. Enforcing fair, skill-based teams on a server hinders friends from playing together. So a matchmaking like in CS:GO, where you can setup a party of people with which you want to team, would be much preferred.

    TL;DR: I think a matchmaking system would be great. We need to find out how to measure skill properly first.
  • EucomolhamasEucomolhamas Join Date: 2013-03-10 Member: 183841Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Just saying that having a matchmaking system would do nothing about teamstacking, EXCEPT if you mean removing the freedom of choosing a team which in return would be so horrible it would hurt.

    If they were to make a matchmaking system, I really hope you still could also join servers as you do now, and only the people who want the matchmaking would use it.
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited September 2013
    Just saying that having a matchmaking system would do nothing about teamstacking, EXCEPT if you mean removing the freedom of choosing a team which in return would be so horrible it would hurt.

    If they were to make a matchmaking system, I really hope you still could also join servers as you do now, and only the people who want the matchmaking would use it.

    they would never do away with the server browser, and if matchmaking did ever come into place, i can only imagine it would pool together players of equal ratings, then throw them into an empty community server in which they all ping equally too, so essentially the community servers would still be used

    or they could pool everyone into the not so much used official servers hosted by them, which would be easy to moderate as well since they own the servers so they could deal away with any potential cheaters (even though this game has no cheating problem)

    I'm more concerned with performance though but have zero doubt in my mind player retention would increase with matching, something about ranking up that makes some people go nutty in the head
  • WingflierWingflier Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183769Members
    TL;DR: I think a matchmaking system would be great. We need to find out how to measure skill properly first.
    Agreed. As I said, the time/cost to add this feature may be quite considerable, but all the required elements are already there (score, skill level, etc.), we just need to refine them.
    If they were to make a matchmaking system, I really hope you still could also join servers as you do now, and only the people who want the matchmaking would use it.
    The Matchmaking feature would not remove the custom servers :D
    Just saying that having a matchmaking system would do nothing about teamstacking, EXCEPT if you mean removing the freedom of choosing a team which in return would be so horrible it would hurt.
    In the Matchmaking Menu (which would be optional, of course), you could choose your side (Alien or Marine), and the MM system would give you the team you wanted. You could also choose both sides if you wanted to find a game faster obviously.
  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    I'm really hoping someone makes an autobalance mod that can randomize teams and balance out by skill (or that they can add this type of thing officially). I don't think they will ever have true matchmaking (best you can hope for is maybe some kind of pre-made finder or something I think)

    But the system needs refining first, at the moment it has no skill weights and it's easy to farm rating among other things.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    To solve the teamstacking problem: Let the players choose the team, just like now.

    BUT improve the random vote to use the mm-data and create even teams.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Hm, I think a mod that put the person with the highest rank skill level on one team, then the next highest on the other, then the next back on the first, etc etc, would work pretty well tbh. It's an average skill level so it'd be pretty decent. I doubt it'd be too hard to do either, just fetch each connected players skill level on map load/connect.
  • JohnnySmash77JohnnySmash77 Join Date: 2009-07-07 Member: 68079Members
    edited September 2013
    Glad to hear UWE is working on it, as unbalanced matches break the game at a base level. Sometimes I go hours "playing" NS2 without getting to actually play it because the matches are just so imbalanced. Last night I played 4-5 games in a row and won every single one but it was extremely boring because it was obviously who the winning team was five minutes in. Didn't really feel like I got to play TBH.
  • NedStarNedStar Join Date: 2013-08-30 Member: 187224Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Battlefield 3 does NOT have matchmaking and has in fact similar problems regarding stacking as NS2. It is however a lot less frustrating in BF3 as you don't get weaker by having no map control.

    Now BF3 does have some server side matchmaking as a custom mod but far from every server uses it and most got it setup in such a way that stacking with friends is still possible and it will never pull friends apart to balance a game. Aka it's useless in 99% of the cases for BF3.

    I don't really see the purpose in global matchmaking right now, not with the playerbase being the size it is. I'd love to see proper server side matchmaking though that actually enforces it and isn't afraid to re balance mid-game if needed.
    Also have to make sure there's no way to go around it by rejoining the server.

    Ultimately balancing it is still going to be hard for NS2 as team-play and a good commander can mean so much more then just 1 leet player who can get frags.


  • CmdrKeenCmdrKeen Join Date: 2013-05-21 Member: 185321Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I often hear the playerbase is not large enough for global matchmaking, which I dont think is true.

    As I see it, all you need to start a 6v6 at any given time is 12 players who signed up for matchmaking. Provided you have a somewhat working skill-level system, you can order the teams in a way that the average skill level is the same.

    Yes it might get problematic if you have only one comp-type player and the rest rather rookie players, but I think in most cases you could get better games than the average pub game.

    One comp-type player can definetely be overpowered if he is teamed with rookie type players and facing 4-5 mid-skill players who teamwork ok.

    Of course, the larger the player pool to select teams from, the better matchmaking will work, since you can partition the pool by skill level, so that rookies never have to play with the comp players.
  • bERt0rbERt0r Join Date: 2005-03-23 Member: 46181Members
    One thing that would also help and could be implemented easily would be a simple message or popup if your skill is far below/above the avarage skill on the server. Skill lacking players can be advised to get into an appropriate server, players with more skill than the server average could also be asked to command and tutor their teams.
  • KamamuraKamamura Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
    Now that we have female marines, matchmaking can become a lucrative business indeed.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Kamamura wrote: »
    Now that we have female marines, matchmaking can become a lucrative business indeed.

    To be fair, should only match make females with females and males with males.
  • GreymaneGreymane Join Date: 2013-08-30 Member: 187268Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Because a females's team should own a male's one?

    Troll off.

    UW working on a matchmaking is a good news.
    But a smart in-game auto-balance (based on a main ranking) could be an good tool too.

    Just got to find a way to avoid the frustation of losing our personnal res. :p

    PS: sorry for the dirty english...
  • Side1Bu2Rnz9Side1Bu2Rnz9 Join Date: 2012-10-16 Member: 162510Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2013
    Kamamura wrote: »
    Now that we have female marines, matchmaking can become a lucrative business indeed.

    I don't want matched with the female marines... The voice is too annoying to harness any affection from me ;)
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    Hm, I think a mod that put the person with the highest rank skill level on one team, then the next highest on the other, then the next back on the first, etc etc, would work pretty well tbh. It's an average skill level so it'd be pretty decent. I doubt it'd be too hard to do either, just fetch each connected players skill level on map load/connect.

    I really like this as it is done similarly in pugs and works fairly well there. Just need an accurate representation of skill to compare with and it's golden.
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