gaming mouse
JW any reqs for fps-only gaming mouse, standard shapes
1. No laser sensors, they aren't accurate
2. No mice with positive/negative acceleration in the sensor
3. no smoothing/line correction/angle snapping/ whatever
4. native dpi of 400 or dpi adjustable to 400, no drivers preferred but if it has drivers that's ok
My personal favorite shape was the zowie ec1, and my personal favorite sensor is the deathadder
However the shape of the deathadder isn't for me, not sure if it's just too small or just an awkward not standard shape (while the ec1 felt perfect in the hand, but unfortunately has tracking issues and positive acceleration)
I'd assume roccat or steelseries would be the next place to look since I don't care for logitech or their mouse shapes
1. No laser sensors, they aren't accurate
2. No mice with positive/negative acceleration in the sensor
3. no smoothing/line correction/angle snapping/ whatever
4. native dpi of 400 or dpi adjustable to 400, no drivers preferred but if it has drivers that's ok
My personal favorite shape was the zowie ec1, and my personal favorite sensor is the deathadder
However the shape of the deathadder isn't for me, not sure if it's just too small or just an awkward not standard shape (while the ec1 felt perfect in the hand, but unfortunately has tracking issues and positive acceleration)
I'd assume roccat or steelseries would be the next place to look since I don't care for logitech or their mouse shapes
Comments
Anyway, I use a roccat kone xtd since about 9 months and I'm fine with it; I also use a roccat isku keyboard.
Their driver allow you a lot of customizing, on the kone less than on the isku, though. The easyshift feature they advertise with can probably be useful; but you have to get into it and I never really bothered with it.
The kone features two thumb-buttons, two buttons above the wheel, and one below. In battles only the thumbsters are really easy two use, the two mid-buttons feature as dpi-adjust-buttons, but I changed it to profile switch, which works pretty well. The key below the mouse wheel is almost impossible to reach, and I never used it. The mousewheel can also be tilted two the left or the right.
All of these buttons can be customized almost completely free. The easyshift key only goes on the thumbsters, though. (But if you use a roccat keyboard, there is some way to bind those two together and use the keyboard easyshift key for both mouse and keyboard. Never tried it.)
The mouse is covered in some kind of rubber, which is supposed to make it easier to grab. It needs a bit of habituation, but even with sweaty fingers you won't lose grab.
Oh, and there are 5g weights to make the mouse heavier if you like.
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I'm not sure whether I'd buy roccat again. I'm not really sure about the lifespan of their stuff, but so far I experience no problems. I'd probably go for something with more thumbsters, though.
All in all the roccat stuff is quite cool, though.
And the driver is a big plus.
Hope this helps.
Also I use a low dpi simply because I've found it to be the most accurate, also there's some nutty thread somewhere saying that each sensor has a native dpi and using any dpi other than that dpi makes it interpolated
I also need a slightly large mouse since I'm palm grip, and that's another reason why my sensitivity is low because I aim with my entire arm/forearm and not the wrist
So the ec1 was a perfect fit, same with the ime 3.0, but I didn't care for either mice, ime is outdated, and ec1 had accel
Friend of mine is a palm grip as well - he thinks a high dpi paired with a low game sensitivity works best.
I'm not a palm grip, so I can't tell. The mouse seems fairly big, though. But again, I don't have that much experience.
I'm curious if there's a mice store which carries all these gaming mice, but shape is only one factor, needs the sensor too ;/
it's the same as the other deathadder, just has a side grip; the sensor is in fact good, the mouse shape isn't
Mine has sticky leftclicks&rights.
so you unfortunately got a not working model, doesn't mean the mouse is bad, it's just for people who claw grip which isn't me
Other good mice:
Roccat Savu
Roccat Kone pure optical
Zowie FK
Steelseries Kana v2 (~Oct. 2013)
Ninox Aurora (http://www.esreality.com/post/2173191/new-gaming-mouse-development/ ~late 2013)
As far as i know every mouse listed uses the ADNS 3090 sensor which is the best optical sensor at the moment.
I own the ec1 evo, and the mouse has positive acceleration, it also doesn't work on colored mousepads (even though my current is black) and it has low perfect control, so since I'm very low sensitivity if I swipe across the pad too quickly it loses tracking
Roccat
Kone Pure Optical A3090 -- also same sensor ec1 evo uses, and afaik should also have positive acceleration (but zowie attempted to make their lift off distance very low and this might be why the mouse has such poor tracking)
Kova A3080
Kova [+] 3305DK-H
Lua A3050
Pyra 3305DK-H
Savu A3090
Umm
Deathadder 3.5G S3888 -- this one seems to be the best sensor that exists (deathadder is for people who claw grip, also I don't care for the mouse skates)
Deathadder 4G S3988
The kone optical is different from the kone+ I'd assume, also it's a european company (like zowie) so those mice don't really exist here unless you get them shipped or some retailer has them stocked
I'm also a palm grip and unsure if these mice are for palm grip users (I also have a big hand) the ec1 evo had a large arc where the palm would rest and a standard size which is probably what made it so comfortable, and my pinky had space on the mouse, while on the deathadder I need to force my pinky up higher which doesn't feel good or else it'll drag on the mousepad
I read about the aurora and the other mouse in production and will have to wait and see, I'm not sure which grip style they're made for
I'm palm grip / very low / medium sens (depends on the game, some games like quake I need to raise it a bit) Basically what sucks is that I have no way of holding the mouse or testing the sensor and most of these mice are 30-100 dollars and you can't really get full refunds on them
Anyway I want to take a look at roccat savu and kone pure, kone pure is apparently slightly smaller than the original kone so idk if that's an issue, but both mouse seem to be good for palm grip (and sometimes when playing very serious I'll arc my fingers to a kind of claw but that never happens anymore:P
just scared im going to blow money again on something that isnt good for me
k read enough and kone pure optical is the only one I'd look at since the fk isn't for palm gripping
Now just need to find someone who owns that mouse to confirm if it has any accel issues, I know it's pretty small in size but I don't mind my fingertips going over the edge of the shape itself is comfortable in the palm
But that's just my opinion.
http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide
I'm going to check out the refund policy of some places and I'll maybe pick up the roccat kone pure optical, however I've seen zero reviews anywhere claiming anything about acceleration.. so I have low hopes that it will not be present, especially after using the same sensor in the ec1 which was present with acceleration
Funny thing is, my ancient optical mouse wherever it is at like 250 or 400 dpi tracked the same as these professional grade mice and was comfortable for palm grip... where did that and my CRT monitor go..
@f0rdprefect I wouldn't get the XTD because it's a laser sensor
A Laser based sensor will always be more accurate and capable of higher resolution than an LED based tracking system. Laser-diodes have a smaller bandwidth than 'typical' LEDs meaning they can reliably image smaller details and changes in the tracking surface profile leading to higher resolution and greater accuracy. This is a rock solid truth arising from the wave nature of light.
Interpolation is when you estimate a function BETWEEN two known points. This does not make sense when discussing mouse accuracy.
Extrapolation is when you estimate a function outside of the measured points. This is the word you should be using. Not interpolation. Extrapolation.
A sensor will attempt to extrapolate the location of the mouse in the following scenario:
-Consider you have 5 DPI (very low but this will simplify our example)
-The polling rate is 100 Hz (the location of the mouse is requested by software 100 times per second)
-Consider 3 points, A B and C. These points are arranged on a straight line and are 0.2 inches apart.
The mouse is initially stationary at point A
You begin to move your mouse from point A to C at a speed of 4 inches per second.
It takes (0.2 inches)/(4 inches/second)=0.05 second to travel from point A to B.
Software requests the mouse position every 0.01 seconds, meaning between points A and B the location is updated about 5 times.
The problem is that our mouse can't distinguish movements smaller than 0.2 inches. This means that for those first 4 updates the mouse says that it has not moved from point A because, to the best of it's knowledge, it still appears to be at point A.
On the 5th update the sensor now realizes that it is at point B and informs the software of such. The mouse cursor now moves to the new location on the screen.
The mouse is now traversing the distance between points B and C.
However, the mouse is somewhat intelligent and it recognizes that perhaps it's now in motion. It says to itself "Well if I traversed one dot (0.2") in 0.05 seconds then my current velocity is probably (0.2/0.05)=4 inches/second. That means, even though my sensor says I'm still at point B, I can estimate my sub-DPI location at each of the next 4 polling intervals
So on the next software pole, instead of reporting the mouse location at B, the mouse instead responds with the location as (B)+(0.01 seconds * 4 inches/second) = B+0.04".
And thus, from the position of the user, the mouse seems to make a smoother transition between points B and C even though the knowledge of the mouse location is limited by the DPI.
This kind of Extrapolation can be problematic since, in our example, we could have come to a dead stop on point B but the software would still have reported movement between points B and C (until it realized the mistake at the 10th polling update).
If you comprehended the meaning of the above scenario you should realize that having a lower DPI will almost always result in a greater need for extrapolation.
If you are attempting to minimize the effects of extrapolation on your mouse location this is what you should do:
Take the average velocity that you will be moving the mouse in inches/second
Choose a DPI and Polling rate such that:
Polling rate (1/seconds) = Velocity (Inches/second) * DPI (1/Inches)
This will result in the mouse returning a new dot location every time it is polled by software without the need for any sort of extrapolation.
You will also want to err to higher DPI so that when you move the mouse slower than average velocity you still minimize the number of polling events that occur between the sensor recognizing unique (non-extrapolated) mouse locations.
That are plenty of other variables to consider here, such as uncertainty in the sensor (it's likely that halfway between B and C the sensor may jitter between reporting the location at B and C, this would be solved by incorporating hysteresis into the sensor, which is likely done in commercial sensors)
I almost appreciate your entire post but I don't
Let me put it simple
every laser mouse I've touched has positive/negative acceleration or poor perfect control
Every optical sensor has not
I'm just looking for a mouse that's optical, pretty decent/large in size, palm grip, and has no positive/negative acceleration/prediction/angle snapping
The zowie EC1 evo looked to be that mouse, driver free, simple design, pretty good to hold but it had positive acceleration 1-2% and was causing too many overshoots in multiple games
So I swapped to deathadder, which has the sensor but fails in the shape department, feels bad to hold, designed for claw grip, and just uncomfortable overall
So I've read everywhere that steelseries is not an option, as all of them have accel issues, now I'm looking at roccat a euro company which I've never used a product from to see if maybe their new optical product is what I'm looking for.. but their sensor is the same in the evo which im assuming has accel but i've yet to find an owner of the mouse who can confirm this besides a miserable video on youtube of a guy doing a 360 in garrys mod... which is not reliable even though it's showing what looks like 2% positive accel (same thing the ec1 had)
Also most of logitechs stuff is proper crap, they have the worst customer support I've ever experienced// and I really don't want to waste my time on ebay/amazon picking up the 'outdated' g400 just to 'try it out' and if i hate it be screwed because there's going to most likely be no full refund from a random seller.. that and I hate logitech
So I e-mailed roccat support and awaiting a reply to see if the mouse has accel, if it does.. then I'll just have to wait for a new product// I'm also going to contact one of zowies reps who i happen to be friends with to see if we can get a re-make of the ec1 with a better sensor.. or at least propose the idea
I mean I still have the intellimouse which is the perfect in palm grip sense.. but just using it even after overclock I can 'feel' the minor delay compared to the newer sensors, still a great quality mouse for what it was
also I use the 1920 x 4 = 7068 / inch I want to do a 360 in to find my dpi
So if I want to do a 360 across my entire mousepad I'd divide by 17 inches, which would give me aprox 450 dpi, I'm using 400 dpi and can do a 360 in some games, and a 180 in other games (by adjusting in-game sens) -- it's not fully accurate since some games I use a FoV of 120, but I just adjust the in-game to fine tune it and everything is ok.. it's better then trying to find a perfect sensitivity, I just play the game and see if it requires me to do a 180 only or if it's a lot faster like quake which would require me to do 360s
I used the ec1 evo on a puretrak talent and this is where I had accel issues, about 2% positive; however it was the complexity edition of the pad which is pretty colorful and apparently the sensor malfunctions on a colored pad (on this specific mouse)
You'd have to do an accel test to prove to me there's no positive accel, but I assure you you cannot do a 360 turn and land in the same spot every time with no variation on a fixed axis, test videos of other people show positive/negative accel.. maybe we received a bad batch? who knows but im not willing to try a zowie again
Lets not get into brand bias though considering most of these companies use the same sensors anyway.
On that note, if you want to compare the accuracy of each sensor based on the manufacturers analysis:
http://www.overclock.net/t/854100/gaming-mouse-sensor-list
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?v=516&FV=fff4001e,fff8022a&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25
The problem is that the links to most of those sensor datasheets are dead BUT if you go ahead and try to open them through Digikey and end up at a page like:
http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-1184EN
Just paste AV02-1184EN into google and for most you can find a mirror of it on the first page.
These datasheets have all the information relevant to tracking accuracy/speed/SQUAL value/DPI error rate and all the other standardized performance values.
It seems that the experience people refer to as 'negative/positive accel' is addressed by the "typical path deviation" graph inside each sensors datasheet.
and i dealt with logitech.. possibly the worst customer support ever, on par with 2k games.. razer support is also very trash and unreasonable
A bought a keyboard/mouse combo at a yardsale years ago. The rubber on the mouse started to peel. They offered to replace it with the newest iteration of the series for free.
We can't possibly be thinking of the same company.
A shame the ec1 evo had accel because I mean it wasn't the best mouse to grip but at least I felt comfort when using it
steelseries kana v2 also reviewed by someone who owns it doesn't look like a mouse to get, and also I believe it will ship with negative acceleration (because even in his review he claimed 1400 dpi felt like 1200, and 800 felt like 600) and he said he couldn't explain why, the explanation is simple.. negative accel errrrr
even if it doesn't the mouse shape doesn't look fitting for me...... also talked to someone who used the ninox and they say it's also poor for palm grip
So what's left really?