Strategy From A N00b For N00bs
maskedpussy
Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11645Members
Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11645Members
<div class="IPBDescription">This is how NS works...</div> (this is a reprint from the General Form - few people thought it might be nice to have here - also, it is long, but quite informative)
Heelo.
I am a n00b. I have played a total of 25 games, if that. However, I have noticed a few things and I wanted to point them out, so all the other n00bs at least are less n00by. Also, I noticed allot of people are missing the point here when it comes to strategy for NS - or to put it another way, they are all asking the wrong question.
<b>What question is that?</b> All the questions, and resultant strategies I see to answer these questions, are some thing like: What is the best plan to beat the other team / what do i build for X / in what order / etc.
<b>This is the wrong thing to ask</b> - you are totally jumping right past the level of where NS games are won and lost.
<b>Here is the list of general things that, IMHO, make the MOST difference in an NS game.</b> Possible solutions to these problems (on a strategic and game developer level) are mentioned below:
**From most significant to least significant**
<b>1. Teamwork (Team Proficiency)</b>
This is the biggest one. It doesn't matter what weapons or evolutions you can bring out at whatever time, it doesn't matter how good your commander is, if your team cannot work together (and you have some guys runnig off and getting lost) you have lost (unless the other team can't work together either, in which case the Aliens have a slight advantage in the beginning, and not so much when the marines have Motion detect and HMGS in the end).
No teamwork = losing. Period.
<b>2. Experienced / Fast / Smart Command</b>
Think this only applies to the Marines? Nope. On your Kharra team you NEED (and I mean NEED) a Commander as well. A skulk usually, has to run around the map, Parasiting important places, and directing the other Skulks to what to do and where. The rest of the team <b>needs to listen to the alien commander, and second in command.</b> The gorge (second in command) sometimes plays the first in command role, but that is a mistake, because the Gorge cannot move fast enough to do this effectively, and he ought to be building instead of leading. But sometimes he needs some assistance, and should give an order or two for the other skulks to obey.
If either team is without 1 and 2 they will most certainly lose, unless the other team is also without 1 or 2, in which case it becomes almost totally random (provided that nothing else becomes a factor, like lagginess, or a 1337 sniper on one team, etc).
<b>3. 1337ness (Individual Proficiency)</b>
Remember CS? The team with the guy who was 30-1, who could shoot you accross the map with his Colt m4a1 and kill you with 2 bullets, that was the team that won most matches, just because that guy was so good. Same with NS - if you have a team member who can kill 4 guys usually before being brought down (on either team - doesn't matter) then that team has a distinct advantage. In fact, you can quantify it - if the guy usually kills 4 guys before dying then he is worth 4 teammembers, it's like having 4 more people than just one on your team. Which leads me to...
<b>4. Numbers (Outnumbering)</b>
This is also very important. Usually I play aliens, only because I always choose random team, and the aliens usually are outnumbered. Even if the teams are 7 vs 6 that's still a majour advantage, because they have that extra man to do the obligitory hive/base rush (more on this below).
<b>5. Lag</b>
Lag makes it hard to aim a bite or shoot anything. The team with the less laggy players has a slight advantage.We all know this, but seem to forget and get frustrated in game when our team is losing.
<b>6. Knowledge of map (for everyone)</b>
Know the map and you know what to put where, instead of scanning many areas if you are the commander, or running around lost if you are a skulk.
<b>It is in these general things where alsmist all the games are won and lost, IMHO.</b>
Think about it before flaming me.
Now we come to the more interesting specifics that can change the course of the game. Of course, generally speaking, if the things listed above are all in order (good teamwork, good commanders, low lag, sides are equal in terms of 1337ness and knowledge of map and numbers) the question becomes <b>who wins? Marines of course. Why?</b>
Because right now, with this current balance of technology and power for each side, the marines have an advantage in <b>adaptability</b>. The only time I've seen the marines lose is because of those general things above not being in place - usually number 1 (teamwork) and 2 (commander), which are the most important. (they tried a hive rush but the commander didn't react fast enough and / or the team didn't listen to him and ran off to die at the hands (or mouth in this case) of a skulk).
How can I say this? Well, right now we have 2 marine strategies - it is that simple. You all know this. <b>Strat 1. Hive rush:</b> take 1 of their hives and move to strat 2 or proceed to take a second hive (leaving them only 1 hive, in which case they can't Fadde, in which case you win 95% of the time).
<b>Strat 2. Way point / Siege hive strat.</b> Take a way point and siege the hive(s) in range. This works if all the general things are in place - usually the skulks can't fight against this. But strat 1 is much more devastating to the Aliens because you take a hive away from them, and the chances of them getting that second hive online goes way down.
For any strategy, for any team, the team that gets the second hive wins. If it's marines, then aliens can't Fade, and marines win. If it's aliens, they then can Fade, and they then (usually) can take the comm chair (we all know that the comm chair, and then the infantry portals are the most important things in the marine base, right? NOT the Turret factory, NOT the observatory, and especially NOT the armory, etc).
When it comes down to it, this is the only strategy available to both teams: <b>take one or another hive (by nutralizing oponent resistance)</b>. Hive locations and numbers are fixed (3 to be exact, in the same place on each map everytime).
Therefore, the tactics you use to accomplish this strategy for Marines is what I've said above: 1. Hive rush (better, I've never seen it fail when all those general things I listed above are even) and 2. Siege Hive from Way Base (not as good, but usually works when all those general things listed above are in order).
So, what you are saying maskedpussy is if I'm a marine commander I should always hive rush...? NO! It depends on the map, some maps are great for this, but other maps are better for a way base / siege tactical attack.
Really, the only reason why you don't want to hive rush on certain maps is because if the resultant most effective alien tactic (yes, just one, that's all they have, that's why the marines are better) below. Namely, the initial Skulk base rush.
<b>For the Kharra there is ONLY 1 tactic with several steps:</b>
<b>1. ALL alien players Skulk rush Base.</b> Don't even Gorge out yet. All team members stay together (not 10 seconds after one another which is totally useless - except as good target practice). If you can take the only Infantry portal (or both if the Comm is quick and smart to build 2 right off the bat) then you can chomp away on the comm chair unmolested (make sure you get the commander when he jumps out to kill you before you succeed), then you have won.
It may sound cheap, but IMHO, this is the best tactic to accomplish the main strategy (which is gaining a second hive by nutralizing oponent resistance - in this case you have done the latter most successfully).
Even if the marines rush a hive, you may encounter them en masse in the hallways, in which case you have the advantage. Then we proceed to step 2. Even if they take a different route then you, and get to your hive, if you take their comm chair in your rush, then it is a merry game of hunt down the marines, in which case the Kharra has the advantage whether or not they got your hive, and the marines hive rush avails them not.
<b>2. Become annoying</b> This is where things get screwed up if you don't have a good alien commander directing the waves of skulks in the right direction. Bassically though, you must attack, and keep attacking. This is not to kill them, because you can't - the game is not balanced that way generally speaking. Only annoy them so you can get a second hive (and then Fade, in which case you normally win) and not them.
<b>What do I do exactly to accomplish this maskedpussy? Well, that always, and only, depends on what the marines are doing.</b> For:
-If they are staying in their base after your base rush (most likely - you spooked them) then wait untill you have 3 skulks at least at the hive and make another base rush <b>simoultaneously</b>, NOT 20 seconds after one another (that is not usefull for you). Again, what you should be trying to accomplish here is always different: your commanding Skulk should have parasited the base so you know where it is. If they have a Turret Factory (by then they most certainly will) then you may have to take that, before you can take the Infantry portals, before you can take the Comm chair. But you can go right to the Comm chair if no one is around and their are no turrets protecting it.
-but if they are starting a way base for a siege, or if they are smart marines and have MINED the corridors leading to their base, then you cannot base rush, you must attack their way base (again, together, not seperately).
-if they are trying to take a hive of yours, then <b>the Skulk commander must determine where they are weakest and ALL skulks rush that simoultaneously.</b>. Not one or twwo. ALL of them. At the SAME time. Sometimes it's the hive base they are making, sometimes it's their main base. It doesn't really matter, because at this point the marines have more or less won (unless you have a smart and lucky Gorge who is building / saving for that second hive which is NOT the one the marines happen to be taking). But if the marines have left their main base open to take a hive (which is usually the case) and IF they haven't mined the entrances to it, then you should do another simoultaneous Skulk Base Rush to takeout what I've already discussed ought to be taken out (TF, IP, CC in that order or just the CC if it's not properly guarded).
<b>To conclude:</b>
As you can plainly see, IMHO, the way the game breaks down, the marines have a clear advantage - <b>only if they are complete n00bs, and don't guard their base (IP and CC buildings), and don't mine the entrances to it to prevent from a skulk rush at any point in the game</b> then the game becomes who can get the second hive quickest.
<b>My point</b> is that if the marines can get one hive point (which they can 90% of the time - if those general things are in place that I mentioned), then they can get the second (either by sieging it, pre-emptively or retroactively to the same devastating effect, or by walking in there, killing the Gorge waiting to make another Hive, and making a Phase Gate really quick).
All the aliens can do is what I've outlined above. It's kinda funny, they are really never on the offensive, even when they are base rushing the marines and chomping on the CC, they are still NOT on the offensive, these are only stop gap measures to buy them time (unless they just happen to kill all the marines, the IP, and the CC in that initial rush). They are buying time to get that second hive up, and then they can Fade, and THEN they ought to be on the offensive. Usually by that time, they will win (depending on the map, who has more res towers, and most importantly, if the marines have HMGS and HA, etc).
If this is the game that the fine folks who made NS wanted to, then that's what they have. Fine with me, it's still kinda fun, and hands down way better than CS ever was. But, if they wanted a more complex strategy which would be harder to predict, and maybe more fun, then they have to, IMHO, simply do one thing (yes, just one thing to perfection - isn't that nice <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> :
<b>Hives do NOT get a fixed starting point</b>. And / Or there are several places on the map a hive may start, there are 4,5 or 6 hive places in total in where the aliens must build 3 (max) hives. <b>This way, a hive rush is much more difficult (but still not impossible with the Siege cannon) and the game then becomes who controls the most res towers</b>! With little exciting battles here and there for res towers, with many different tactics to accomplish this, and a real back and forth about who is going to win or not. It takes the fighting to the res towers - if the marines have more they can get HMGS and HAs more and the aliens can Fade less, and vica versa.
Not that the old tactics of hive / base rushing go away, they just are not as effective tactically as getting res towers anymore. It forces the marines to defend their main base a little more and not rush out to a hive. This forces the skulks NOT to rush at the beginning cause it is less likely this will work, and the risk is no longer worth it cause the marines are no longer playing the hive rush strategy.
If they did this the strategy changes to put a siege cannon in the middle of the map and blow away any alien structures including res towers, then siege a hive (but if there were more hives then 3 in a map then a siege cannon in the centre of the map, with its very long range, would inlucde most hives anyways). In other words, the marines would still have a slight advantage in this case.
To counter this I would do one last thing: give the skulks some form of infravision, or a visio in which the marines stand out better - this way they will be more effective, killmore marines per skulk, and then, IMHO, the game would be entirely balanced.
So there you have it. The current state of NS and where it could go, all from a n00b.
maskedpussy
Heelo.
I am a n00b. I have played a total of 25 games, if that. However, I have noticed a few things and I wanted to point them out, so all the other n00bs at least are less n00by. Also, I noticed allot of people are missing the point here when it comes to strategy for NS - or to put it another way, they are all asking the wrong question.
<b>What question is that?</b> All the questions, and resultant strategies I see to answer these questions, are some thing like: What is the best plan to beat the other team / what do i build for X / in what order / etc.
<b>This is the wrong thing to ask</b> - you are totally jumping right past the level of where NS games are won and lost.
<b>Here is the list of general things that, IMHO, make the MOST difference in an NS game.</b> Possible solutions to these problems (on a strategic and game developer level) are mentioned below:
**From most significant to least significant**
<b>1. Teamwork (Team Proficiency)</b>
This is the biggest one. It doesn't matter what weapons or evolutions you can bring out at whatever time, it doesn't matter how good your commander is, if your team cannot work together (and you have some guys runnig off and getting lost) you have lost (unless the other team can't work together either, in which case the Aliens have a slight advantage in the beginning, and not so much when the marines have Motion detect and HMGS in the end).
No teamwork = losing. Period.
<b>2. Experienced / Fast / Smart Command</b>
Think this only applies to the Marines? Nope. On your Kharra team you NEED (and I mean NEED) a Commander as well. A skulk usually, has to run around the map, Parasiting important places, and directing the other Skulks to what to do and where. The rest of the team <b>needs to listen to the alien commander, and second in command.</b> The gorge (second in command) sometimes plays the first in command role, but that is a mistake, because the Gorge cannot move fast enough to do this effectively, and he ought to be building instead of leading. But sometimes he needs some assistance, and should give an order or two for the other skulks to obey.
If either team is without 1 and 2 they will most certainly lose, unless the other team is also without 1 or 2, in which case it becomes almost totally random (provided that nothing else becomes a factor, like lagginess, or a 1337 sniper on one team, etc).
<b>3. 1337ness (Individual Proficiency)</b>
Remember CS? The team with the guy who was 30-1, who could shoot you accross the map with his Colt m4a1 and kill you with 2 bullets, that was the team that won most matches, just because that guy was so good. Same with NS - if you have a team member who can kill 4 guys usually before being brought down (on either team - doesn't matter) then that team has a distinct advantage. In fact, you can quantify it - if the guy usually kills 4 guys before dying then he is worth 4 teammembers, it's like having 4 more people than just one on your team. Which leads me to...
<b>4. Numbers (Outnumbering)</b>
This is also very important. Usually I play aliens, only because I always choose random team, and the aliens usually are outnumbered. Even if the teams are 7 vs 6 that's still a majour advantage, because they have that extra man to do the obligitory hive/base rush (more on this below).
<b>5. Lag</b>
Lag makes it hard to aim a bite or shoot anything. The team with the less laggy players has a slight advantage.We all know this, but seem to forget and get frustrated in game when our team is losing.
<b>6. Knowledge of map (for everyone)</b>
Know the map and you know what to put where, instead of scanning many areas if you are the commander, or running around lost if you are a skulk.
<b>It is in these general things where alsmist all the games are won and lost, IMHO.</b>
Think about it before flaming me.
Now we come to the more interesting specifics that can change the course of the game. Of course, generally speaking, if the things listed above are all in order (good teamwork, good commanders, low lag, sides are equal in terms of 1337ness and knowledge of map and numbers) the question becomes <b>who wins? Marines of course. Why?</b>
Because right now, with this current balance of technology and power for each side, the marines have an advantage in <b>adaptability</b>. The only time I've seen the marines lose is because of those general things above not being in place - usually number 1 (teamwork) and 2 (commander), which are the most important. (they tried a hive rush but the commander didn't react fast enough and / or the team didn't listen to him and ran off to die at the hands (or mouth in this case) of a skulk).
How can I say this? Well, right now we have 2 marine strategies - it is that simple. You all know this. <b>Strat 1. Hive rush:</b> take 1 of their hives and move to strat 2 or proceed to take a second hive (leaving them only 1 hive, in which case they can't Fadde, in which case you win 95% of the time).
<b>Strat 2. Way point / Siege hive strat.</b> Take a way point and siege the hive(s) in range. This works if all the general things are in place - usually the skulks can't fight against this. But strat 1 is much more devastating to the Aliens because you take a hive away from them, and the chances of them getting that second hive online goes way down.
For any strategy, for any team, the team that gets the second hive wins. If it's marines, then aliens can't Fade, and marines win. If it's aliens, they then can Fade, and they then (usually) can take the comm chair (we all know that the comm chair, and then the infantry portals are the most important things in the marine base, right? NOT the Turret factory, NOT the observatory, and especially NOT the armory, etc).
When it comes down to it, this is the only strategy available to both teams: <b>take one or another hive (by nutralizing oponent resistance)</b>. Hive locations and numbers are fixed (3 to be exact, in the same place on each map everytime).
Therefore, the tactics you use to accomplish this strategy for Marines is what I've said above: 1. Hive rush (better, I've never seen it fail when all those general things I listed above are even) and 2. Siege Hive from Way Base (not as good, but usually works when all those general things listed above are in order).
So, what you are saying maskedpussy is if I'm a marine commander I should always hive rush...? NO! It depends on the map, some maps are great for this, but other maps are better for a way base / siege tactical attack.
Really, the only reason why you don't want to hive rush on certain maps is because if the resultant most effective alien tactic (yes, just one, that's all they have, that's why the marines are better) below. Namely, the initial Skulk base rush.
<b>For the Kharra there is ONLY 1 tactic with several steps:</b>
<b>1. ALL alien players Skulk rush Base.</b> Don't even Gorge out yet. All team members stay together (not 10 seconds after one another which is totally useless - except as good target practice). If you can take the only Infantry portal (or both if the Comm is quick and smart to build 2 right off the bat) then you can chomp away on the comm chair unmolested (make sure you get the commander when he jumps out to kill you before you succeed), then you have won.
It may sound cheap, but IMHO, this is the best tactic to accomplish the main strategy (which is gaining a second hive by nutralizing oponent resistance - in this case you have done the latter most successfully).
Even if the marines rush a hive, you may encounter them en masse in the hallways, in which case you have the advantage. Then we proceed to step 2. Even if they take a different route then you, and get to your hive, if you take their comm chair in your rush, then it is a merry game of hunt down the marines, in which case the Kharra has the advantage whether or not they got your hive, and the marines hive rush avails them not.
<b>2. Become annoying</b> This is where things get screwed up if you don't have a good alien commander directing the waves of skulks in the right direction. Bassically though, you must attack, and keep attacking. This is not to kill them, because you can't - the game is not balanced that way generally speaking. Only annoy them so you can get a second hive (and then Fade, in which case you normally win) and not them.
<b>What do I do exactly to accomplish this maskedpussy? Well, that always, and only, depends on what the marines are doing.</b> For:
-If they are staying in their base after your base rush (most likely - you spooked them) then wait untill you have 3 skulks at least at the hive and make another base rush <b>simoultaneously</b>, NOT 20 seconds after one another (that is not usefull for you). Again, what you should be trying to accomplish here is always different: your commanding Skulk should have parasited the base so you know where it is. If they have a Turret Factory (by then they most certainly will) then you may have to take that, before you can take the Infantry portals, before you can take the Comm chair. But you can go right to the Comm chair if no one is around and their are no turrets protecting it.
-but if they are starting a way base for a siege, or if they are smart marines and have MINED the corridors leading to their base, then you cannot base rush, you must attack their way base (again, together, not seperately).
-if they are trying to take a hive of yours, then <b>the Skulk commander must determine where they are weakest and ALL skulks rush that simoultaneously.</b>. Not one or twwo. ALL of them. At the SAME time. Sometimes it's the hive base they are making, sometimes it's their main base. It doesn't really matter, because at this point the marines have more or less won (unless you have a smart and lucky Gorge who is building / saving for that second hive which is NOT the one the marines happen to be taking). But if the marines have left their main base open to take a hive (which is usually the case) and IF they haven't mined the entrances to it, then you should do another simoultaneous Skulk Base Rush to takeout what I've already discussed ought to be taken out (TF, IP, CC in that order or just the CC if it's not properly guarded).
<b>To conclude:</b>
As you can plainly see, IMHO, the way the game breaks down, the marines have a clear advantage - <b>only if they are complete n00bs, and don't guard their base (IP and CC buildings), and don't mine the entrances to it to prevent from a skulk rush at any point in the game</b> then the game becomes who can get the second hive quickest.
<b>My point</b> is that if the marines can get one hive point (which they can 90% of the time - if those general things are in place that I mentioned), then they can get the second (either by sieging it, pre-emptively or retroactively to the same devastating effect, or by walking in there, killing the Gorge waiting to make another Hive, and making a Phase Gate really quick).
All the aliens can do is what I've outlined above. It's kinda funny, they are really never on the offensive, even when they are base rushing the marines and chomping on the CC, they are still NOT on the offensive, these are only stop gap measures to buy them time (unless they just happen to kill all the marines, the IP, and the CC in that initial rush). They are buying time to get that second hive up, and then they can Fade, and THEN they ought to be on the offensive. Usually by that time, they will win (depending on the map, who has more res towers, and most importantly, if the marines have HMGS and HA, etc).
If this is the game that the fine folks who made NS wanted to, then that's what they have. Fine with me, it's still kinda fun, and hands down way better than CS ever was. But, if they wanted a more complex strategy which would be harder to predict, and maybe more fun, then they have to, IMHO, simply do one thing (yes, just one thing to perfection - isn't that nice <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> :
<b>Hives do NOT get a fixed starting point</b>. And / Or there are several places on the map a hive may start, there are 4,5 or 6 hive places in total in where the aliens must build 3 (max) hives. <b>This way, a hive rush is much more difficult (but still not impossible with the Siege cannon) and the game then becomes who controls the most res towers</b>! With little exciting battles here and there for res towers, with many different tactics to accomplish this, and a real back and forth about who is going to win or not. It takes the fighting to the res towers - if the marines have more they can get HMGS and HAs more and the aliens can Fade less, and vica versa.
Not that the old tactics of hive / base rushing go away, they just are not as effective tactically as getting res towers anymore. It forces the marines to defend their main base a little more and not rush out to a hive. This forces the skulks NOT to rush at the beginning cause it is less likely this will work, and the risk is no longer worth it cause the marines are no longer playing the hive rush strategy.
If they did this the strategy changes to put a siege cannon in the middle of the map and blow away any alien structures including res towers, then siege a hive (but if there were more hives then 3 in a map then a siege cannon in the centre of the map, with its very long range, would inlucde most hives anyways). In other words, the marines would still have a slight advantage in this case.
To counter this I would do one last thing: give the skulks some form of infravision, or a visio in which the marines stand out better - this way they will be more effective, killmore marines per skulk, and then, IMHO, the game would be entirely balanced.
So there you have it. The current state of NS and where it could go, all from a n00b.
maskedpussy
Comments
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hives do NOT get a fixed starting point. And / Or there are several places on the map a hive may start, there are 4,5 or 6 hive places in total in where the aliens must build 3 (max) hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If this was the case, aliens could have serveral places to build and it would be too hard for marines to stop the aliens from getting 3 hives.
However, I could be reading what you meant wrong. You could have ment to say something like have 4-6 random starting points for the hive, but only have 2 of those 4-6 "spawn" (become transparent) and the other 1 the alien's starting hive. While those other 1-3 hive points are 100% inactive and can not spawn a hive during the entire round.
EDIT: Also, Marines should have the same type of thing for them. But they will only have 2-3 random starting points.
That having been said, I must politely disagree with maskedpussy's post on several points. While the marines may have a slight technological advantage and perhaps a tad more adaptability, those advantages disappear once the aliens get the second hive. The marines have a total of 5 different weapons (6 if you count the welder)versus LOTS and LOTS of different evolution and upgrade possibilities for the Kharaa. You can have a melee or artillery Fade; a suicide or cloak and wait-in-ambush skulk; a support lerk using umbra or go it sniper style, and lots more. Aliens have lots more choices in mid and end game. The marines mostly just shoot.
If you read lots of theposts in the general discussion on this forum, you will find that many of the posters think the aliens have a major advantage after early game because of fades. Often there are complaints about how one or two fades can massacre the whole marine team with acid rocket and then umbra from lerks make them invincible. Now I'm not saying fades can't be beat, but they do have a major advantage at midterm. Some posters call them "end-game firepower at mid-game." All that just for being able to secure the secon hive. The way the game is right now in 1.03, almost the only way for marines to win is to take 2 hives immediately, because most marine teams can't handle fades with their current technology (marines have a much harder time defending resource nodes than aliens do). The only major advantage the marines have throughout the whole game is the seige cannon with it godly powers. Many commanders fall back to seiging in hopes to take that second hive back before the aliens can fade, because often that is the only way to take back that second hive (and take out the walls of lame the gorges put up).
Now in 1.04 the dev team tried to fix some balance issues by making some stuff more expensive (such as pahse gates and infantry portals) to hinder the marine rush a bit. Also the fade's acid rocket has a 1/6 reduction in radius whenit comes to computing splash area. The idea is to let making it too mid-game more powerful and to make mid-game more balanced. We'll have to wait untill 1.04 comes out to see if the dev team succeeded. Oh yeah and the seige cannon lost its sensors and need a scanner sweep or the a marine to look at the target before it will fire. That and it had its range reduced slightly. One thing is for sure, the reign of the godly seige cannon is over.
Both sides must be aggressive in order to win. This game cannot be won defensively. If you are forced on the defensive you will loseor you have already lost.
*For a complete list of changes, just head to the home page of this website.
It could be done either way - all I'm saying is that we randomize both the hive points and the marine base start points, it makes it less likely a rush to either place will work, and people will more or less stop playing that way (because that tactic is then much harder to complete when you are not positive where you are rushing to).
But then the marines will have a harder time stopping aliens from going Fade - that means the game is unbalanced in favour of the aliens! Wrong. This leads me to meatshield's post:
<b>To meatshield:</b>
You have missed my point but luckilly we seem to mostly agree. I know the Fades are powerfull - they are more or less end game (unless the marines are really good with a really good commander and can survive the inital attacks and prevent them from going Onos which is REAL end of game).
However, let me ask you this: is one Fade a problem? Even with a Lerk and Umbra support? No, not for a half competent marine team. But you would respond: they don't attack with one Fade they attack with three, now THAT is a problem. And I would agree! Then you would say, so if we randomize the starting hive points, as you say, then it would make the aliens too powerfull, cause they can all change to Fades and own the marines! And that is where you make a mistake.
That <i>could</i> happen (everyone goes fades and the marines are doomed) but only if the marines are n00bs. And remember, I already said if you put the incompetency of the maarine team and commander aside in my origianl post and I was talking about two competent teams with good pings, good aim, good teamwork, etc. To put it another way, the marines will only get owned by Fades in this case if they fail to:
1) <b>use their weapon upgrades properly and in the proper order</b> (the right way would be: MINE the entrances to the base - Fades can't get through that without taking lots of damage, then HMG and Greande them - that will stop most Fade rushes, at least for awhile. Then when you have a second to react, scan for a hive, attack that hive, and take the focus off your base and on a way base, or hide yourselves in some air vents (last ditch effort) Anything to get those Fades off your base).
2) <b>But more importantly, the aliens will own the marines with Fades IF the Marines haven't taken the res towers away from the ALiens in the first place.</b> Fades cost allot of resources: 44 res points (then 2 more for regeneration or carapace and 2 more for adrenaline). If the alien team has 3-4 res towers then you will have 3-4 Fades on you roughly at the same time. If they only have 1 res tower, you get 1 Fade every 30-60 seconds or so. That is NOT a problem for a marine team that knows what they are doing with the proper upgrades (mines, HMG or grenade, motion tracking).
That's why I said in my original post, the game would become a fight for res towers, not a fight for bases/hive perse (although, eventually, after the res towers are fought for, the base or hive will in theory fall thereafter). Remember, we are ignoring the incompetent teams and leaders, bad pings, and uneven matches because it makes it seem like one side has the advantage when really, if you take away incompetent players, we all know the aliens are at a disadvantage (as I've clearly shown in my original post). Please read my original post again, just so I know we are on the same page.
Fades don't have to be end of game for Marines - they are now (for the most part) only because the marines let the aliens have as many res towers as they want (which means lots of Fades can attack simoultaneously), because all the marines do right now is take out hives, and for the most part don't waste their time with alien res towers that are not directly in their way. Take away the abillity for marines to quickly take out hives, and you force both sides early to mid game to fight over res towers instead of bases - whoever has the most res towers, has the better advantage to finally find and get that base/hive in the later part of the match.
As it should be IMHO.
maskedpussy
Um, no.
Marines get hive and Kharaa get Comm Chair = Kharaa die a slow cold death.
Dead hive = dead aliens.