The current development strategy for NS2 prevents it from growing
foolfoolz
Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181835Members
Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181835Members
The constant overhaul of NS2 is hurting casual player adoption. The game has changed so much over time, it is not easy for people to pick it up.
The people who played during the previous free weekend will have to re-learn parts of the game just to play again this free weekend.
When has that ever happened to another successful game? Maybe WoW pulled it off, but i can't think of any others. Counter strike has had tons of balance changes over the years yet still is easy for people to play sporadically.
Questions I expect returning free weekenders to ask:
Or worse yet, the commander experience which historically is one of the most difficult for people to grasp...
Your entire build order has changed. Combine this as well with many maps changing drastically, such as docking, just reinforces you can only pick up and play NS2 if you play all the time. I have logged hundreds of hours and still was fumbling through my first game as alien commander in the latest patch. I didn't upgrade skulk until after gorge, lerk, and onos because I had no idea where it was or that I needed to do it and especially had no clue that I needed a whip.
Even tonight I just played Onos and almost got killed because my attack wasn't doing anything as I charged an exo. Little did I know I was using bone shield, a new weapon. I almost lost 84 res trying to stab an exo with bone shield and had no idea why my attack wasn't working.
Contrast this to TF2. The hats change, but you can play an hour last year and an hour this year and still know what you're doing.
This is not meant to be a rant of competitive vs public play. I just don't see how any of these changes are geared towards growing the NS2 player base. They punish you for not keeping current with the updates, the players who do will always beat you.
The people who played during the previous free weekend will have to re-learn parts of the game just to play again this free weekend.
When has that ever happened to another successful game? Maybe WoW pulled it off, but i can't think of any others. Counter strike has had tons of balance changes over the years yet still is easy for people to play sporadically.
Questions I expect returning free weekenders to ask:
- Grenades? What do they do? is this like the grenade launcher?
- Rail exo? Is this worth the money? I remember the dual and single, but what is the 3rd one?
- What is biomass?
- Where did silence and invisibility go? What is Aura?
- I have to pay for alien upgrades now? Why?
Or worse yet, the commander experience which historically is one of the most difficult for people to grasp...
- I need to get 2 marine bases before I can build exos.
- How do I upgrade leap?
- Why does my resource tower build so slowly by itself?
- Why aren't drifters invisible?
- What is biomass?
Your entire build order has changed. Combine this as well with many maps changing drastically, such as docking, just reinforces you can only pick up and play NS2 if you play all the time. I have logged hundreds of hours and still was fumbling through my first game as alien commander in the latest patch. I didn't upgrade skulk until after gorge, lerk, and onos because I had no idea where it was or that I needed to do it and especially had no clue that I needed a whip.
Even tonight I just played Onos and almost got killed because my attack wasn't doing anything as I charged an exo. Little did I know I was using bone shield, a new weapon. I almost lost 84 res trying to stab an exo with bone shield and had no idea why my attack wasn't working.
Contrast this to TF2. The hats change, but you can play an hour last year and an hour this year and still know what you're doing.
This is not meant to be a rant of competitive vs public play. I just don't see how any of these changes are geared towards growing the NS2 player base. They punish you for not keeping current with the updates, the players who do will always beat you.
Comments
In most cases, this is the case. You need only look at all the whining veterans of NS1 to see who the real "victims" of big sweeping changes are. This is a case of the vocal minority speaking out, in my opinion.
As for how big these changes are, I'm going to say not big at all to be honest. When I came back to the new system after not playing for a good 4 or 5 months, did I notice changes? Sure, one or two here and there. This is because almost all the changes are focused on the commander, which I obviously didn't immediately do upon my return.
This is true for the "casual gamers" you speak of, as well. Typically only advanced players comm regularly, and while it may inconvenience some, that is inevitable. Change will always inconvenience someone, that is the nature of change.
I'm not going to say that overhauling resource and tech systems is a brilliant idea, but I will say that the impact of such a thing is being highly sensationalised by veterans who are stuck in the old ways.
I agree completely. I get the impression the devs have no idea what they want the game to be, they just want to make as many people (read: the loudest complainers) happy.
That sentiment obviously assumes that the overhauls are unnecessary, which may or may not be the case.
Fair enough. I find the idea of someone getting annoyed about not knowing things in a game which they put a minimal amount of time into to be quite amusing, but I acknowledge that the thought processes are not necessarily that logical when it comes to the broad player base.
Like the grenades against armor and speed.
I love NS2 for relearning the game over and over again since 2 years.
Without this relearning, i think i had stopped playing ages ago.
And this relearning fit into the game:
Lets call it "evolving"
And if you dont want to relearn things, lets call it:
Natural selection
Pfff... Speak for yourself buddy. I appreciate the change and wouldn't play NS2 anymore when it wouldn't have changed from time to time. Actually I stopped playing after over 600h of NS2 and started again with Sewleks Balance Patch. And now I will buy the shadow-badge.
Srsly! I know that there are this change-haters in any game. "Oh my! I feel like a noob again and can't p0wnz0r around! I'm not capable of learning new mechanics! I can't feel like a noob, that hurts my dignity!"
I thought I would at least been spared of such people in a game that is called NATURAL SELECTION!
Adapt or GTFO!
You know the game that is made for you? CS 1.6
Play there plz.
€dit: Oh and at the OP: Casuals / Free-Weekend-Crowd are the last people that have any problem with the changes. Neither do they remember any detail from the last free weekend. Nor would they even know that Grenades or BoneShield are new.
I don't like the alien tech tree changes (e.g. research skulk using whip, lerk using shift, etc.) and I feel like they are destined to be changed inevitably. This is the third major revision to the alien tech tree and it's so weird right now I'm pretty sure there will be a fourth.
evolve or die :-B
My favorite game, Dwarf Fortress, is changing constantly too.
Play and find out.
I actually don't see this as an issue. Actually, as a player I love the game undergoing constant change and development - everything the game changes, there's something new to learn, something new to find out. I never though it was any sort of issue whatsoever but in fact, that's the reason I'm frequenetly looking forward to new builds: the game changes and with every change a new gaming-experience emerges. I'm not huge fan of having a game that feels like coming home - it might be neat for the first few minutes but after a while you get the impression that nothing has changed and while it is not boring, it isn't very exciting either. So if there are new weapons, abilities, etc. introduced my spontaneous reaction would be: "Don't ponder about it, just try it and play the game. This isn't rocket science, it's just a game."
The implementation of more complex features like biomass in fact add certain difficulties because it affects the overall gaming-experience but most alien-player won't really recoginize it in-game, thought they are affected by it. Yeah, that is something you have to get used to but then again, you just adapt and be done with it. I liked the change and be it only for the mere change for its own sake. The first one or two games might be difficult because you've to adapt to the new mechanics but after that you got used to it.
When I think back to the heated discussion about fade movement and such, I sometimes get the impression the NS2 community has a tendency for exaggerations. As an active player I instead expect frequent change, because it's change that keeps things flowing and vivid. There isn't anything more boring than a game that feels the same since release. Self-declared Progamers might argue that their beloved strategies and learned behaviours won't do the job anymore but as an active public player I love it to have adapt and re-learn the game from time to time. That's the reason why I play NS2 and such games instead of Monopoly - Monopoly might be fun for a few sessions but as years pass by you come to notice that the game is just the same again and again.
Since there are no clear design goals, we get complete revamping of the game each major release. I don't like the alien tech tree direction at all. Forcing the kharamander to place structures that you may not want to use solely for the purpose of unlocking higher lifeform abilities that you want to research? That's good game design?
I really wished UWE would have mapped out in their minds from the beginning the role and responsibilities of the alien kharamander since they were dead-set on introducing this in the sequel. Seems like their minds are still not made up, which is so, so frustrating to be playing this game with any regularity. A long time ago the role was a "cosmic gardener" -- a very removed experience where the kharamander decided the upgrade paths and managed resources, but had a very indirect play style with aliens on the ground. Now we're seeing a lot more micro-management stuff with a convoluted upgrade system -- Biomass with lifeform upgrade.
Honestly, and I know this will not happen, removing the kharamander would probably solve a lot of problems in this game. That or completely scrapping what the kharamander is currently and making him like an ephemeral super-gorge, where you play as an actual unit that marines cannot see or kill, but you build structures from a menu ala NS1 gorge and you give "aura" buffs to nearby aliens (so you also act like the current implementation of the drifter, but in a passive way). It would be completely different from the marine commander, but you still have that designated role, and you wouldn't have to penalize people for hopping out of the hive constantly since the super-gorge kharamander would be very busy as a builder.
We're not talking as if TF2 changed the way some weapons worked, or Counter Strike balanced and nerfed a few things here or there. No, we are talking as if TF2 changed (every two months) whether or not a medic could heal people, whether a spy could cloak, or anything that seems so fundamental to the way that particular game is played. So, instead of tweaks, if Valve took the UWE approach to balancing, every two months the Spy would have to wait until his team has so many control points and so many minutes into the match to be able to cloak, AND his HP would drop to next to nothing while he did it. All because the devs perceive that cloaked spies are OP, and OMG WE MUST ACT.
Therin lies the key problem with the way UWE handles issues with their game. When they have a problem, they fabricate a knee jerk "fix" to the problem, and wind up making the game even worse with broken or convoluted changes. It carries over into almost every aspect of this game. They patched to Build 254 last night at 1900 EST while literally thousands of people were playing. So you have hundreds of new players (potential customers) that can't get on because the game just patched during peak time. What did it change? No one knows. UWE's severe inability to take rationalized and even steps to balance the game, and their blatant miscommunication to the players as to what is changing, how it works, and why is ruining this game, and this community.
You might not have been here since the start. This game has changed massively.
Over the past few years it has slowly gotten better and better, but sometimes it takes a step back slightly before moving forward again.
This build has moved forward again, but some things are missed or the community dislike them so much that they get changed.
It is nice to play something that develops this way, it is a work of art in that respect.
But these major changes should have happened in Beta and stayed there. It's not right to do these things after you put the game out for people to spend thirty dollars on. I understand that community involvement is what made this game happen, but once you call it "finished" and offer it on Steam for x amount of dollars and tell people, "Come play our game" these kinds of monumental alterations in gameplay should be over with. Period. Fullstop.
I love the exciting feeling of seeing new stuff and improvements. It keeps the game alive and the only people I can imagine it being a problem to is a small subset of vets.
I do not think rookies will be put off by something like this. If anything the learning curve and the lack of a casual co-op mode remains the biggest hindrance to NS2's growth.
That's a claim, no argument, or in other words: a matter of perspective. In fact I like these fundamental changes as I think, so far, they did some good to the game and were aimed in the right direction. Why shouldn't it be okay to change a game fundamentally after release - I've pay my 30 buckets on the game while it was still in alpha. A lot has changed during alpha, a lot has changed during beta and probably even more is changing after release - I don't see the issue. Some people prefer a kind of game-development where the game is tweaked but not revamped, while I acutally couldn't care less.
I'm an active but not professional player, so every game UWE's changing something about the game, may it be balance, features or whatsoever, I got even more encouraged to log in just to see how it feels. I mean, I can understand how you feel - I simply don't agree. I don't try to live a lie; I simply enjoy seeing things changing, sometimes in a better and sometimes in a worse direction - I couldn't care less whether a lifeforms is x% weaker compared to a previous version or balance is slightly off, as long as I feel well entertained and that's the case.
If you think that a new fundamental feature could improve the overall gaming-experience, it wouldn't be wise to restraint from giving it a try. I mean, we're talking about a game after all, what's the worst that could happen? If it turns out to be a bad idea, just do something about it. That the reason I enjoy playing NS2 instead of, let's say Counterstrike - CS hasn't changed for years. There might be new maps but that's it, the basic gameplay today is the very say as it has been for years. Some people like that because you know what you get when you start the game, you can ponder about strategies that remain relevant as the game itself doesn't change; still, I might esteem consistency in my reallife but I despise it in games.
Why shouldn't I like paying 30 bucks for a game that keeps ever a'changing? I did!
But it rarely changes for the better (in my opinion, whatever), and they never explain how it works. There was literally no explanation as to what biomass is, and what it did when it rolled out. You just had to divine its purpose. Same was true for drifter building, and now the alien upgrades from each different structure. Went to upgrade skulk the yesterday, no one knew how because, turns out, now all skulk abilities come from a whip now??? Where was the explanation on that? And don't even get me started on how things like Leap, which used to be an effective, prioritized early game changer, cannot be out out before ten minutes minimum because it costs effectively 120 res to get it (10 res whip, 20 res skulk upgrade, 50 res in biomass, and 40 res in second hive).
By abandon, i meant that even if old players don't output money anymore, doesn't mean you can change whatever you want because the new players will not notice it (for the money part, there's the donation thing so my argument doesn't hold up much anymore).
The exo beacon change was unnecessary. No one asked for it, it was a good and balanced mechanic before and incorporated into end game strategies.
Pres lock for the commanders are bad changes. The reason behind it was to make alien commanding "more meaningful" by having more to do in the chair rather than being always out. If it was really that much more meaningful, the lock shouldn't be here in the first place. A fun or meaningful commanding can be translated by a commander more in the chair, but forcing the commander in it doesn't make it fun or meaningful, even if he is now there all the time. The gorge swap and commander skulking makes this change basically worthless, showing that it was from the start not well executed. Plus, this change shows a intention (conscient or not) from UWE to make the game more symmetrical when balancing. The alien commander was in many ways different from the marine one and this was one of these, which made alien commanding not boring and with an added depth to it.
Maybe i'm making a bit of a stretch, but i think you get my points.
I completely agree with you except for this. While this could be a good change, it's way too drastic. This would further prove the no clear direction thing too, but in a much bigger way. That would almost be a complete game overhaul.
I think this would be very good as a mod though.
[Edit] Oops, double post.
but i really wast trying to stay away from calling the updates "bad" or "good", just pointing out that major overhauls are intimidating to new players. especially given the complexity of ns2 to begin with. the biggest problem facing NS2 is not performance, balance, alien vision, jumping with jetpack... it's the lack of new players.
Go re-read the Reinforcement post. They can't keep developing NS2 because it's not making enough money from sales to support the development. The only solution at this time (well aside from the donation stuff) is for new people to buy the game. If the game is constantly changing, and your free weekend experience is always re-learning how to play instead of just diving into something you are semi-familiar with, you are less likely to buy the game.
Learning the new stuff isn't causing any problems, all the new stuff actually (in most cases) makes the game better like the Gorgeous update.
You need to learn what an "overhaul" is. Overhaul is changing existing stuff, which isn't necessarily bad (depending on what and how you change it), but in the case of 250, ruined the game.
Like I said, learning a bunch of new stuff is not bad, as long as the game remains fun, both for the old players (meaning that just as they liked pre-change, they would like the after-change) and less importantly the new players.
The steam forums are full of players who can't even get the game to load.