Exos are weaker now but they can be beaconed. This makes alien base rushes WAY scarier and aggressive Hive pushes more realistic as you can get in, do a lot of res damage and then get beaconed out.
The fact exos can get beaconed now makes it even easier for aliens to revert aggression. Marine push coming? Force beacon at main, no more push.
Not to mention if the marines have 2 bases and you force a beacon on one there is nothing protecting the second base from getting instagibbed as the exos are gone from there aswell.
Forcing a beacon to leave the exos alone was a fairly effective way of getting rid of them. Can't do that anymore. Yeah, the aliens can delay the attack more easily now, but I think exos not being able to beacon was more beneficial for aliens; they could actually get more damage done during that time by taking out a lot of marine pres out of the game.
Also if the aliens are coordinated enough to achieve that while the marines are so unorganized that they don't split up instantly after the beacon, the aliens deserve to win anyway. It's not like the alien team can "instagib" the other base while also doing a considerable enough attack to cause a beacon to the other.
@Surefour It is very clear from reading your posts and the thread that you lack the knowledge and experience to say if anything is balanced or not... maybe try playing more than your 10-20 hours and then you can talk.
@Surefour It is very clear from reading your posts and the thread that you lack the knowledge and experience to say if anything is balanced or not... maybe try playing more than your 10-20 hours and then you can talk.
I'm so glad you with your absolute knowledge and experience can explain why I know nothing.
The last 2 patches you've made are only making the balance worse and worse making it more favourable to aliens.
Wow. You're the first one who doesn't complain about all the Alien nerfs and tells us they're in favor of them. Good job!
You're joking right?
increased lerk melee attack speed
stomp deals now damage
Railguns are now affected by umbra
Improved Crag Heal ability slightly
Increased Bile Bomb damage against Exosuits by 25%
I could list even more buffs, but let me just list more nerfs instead, just to show you how biased your selection is:
Fades got movement and structure damage nerfs
Fades got Vortex changed
Lifeforms don't get Biomass HP benefits until they research an expensive upgrade
Upgrades can be disabled by destroying all associated structures on the map
Lifeform eggs take longer to gestate
Alien respawn time got increased
Drifters are more expensive
Umbra requires 2 Hives now
Bile Bomb is on Biomass 3 now
Babblers don't give ludicrous amounts of HP anymore
Marines got movement buffs
Marines got Catpacks
Marines got Grenades
Marines got Dual Railguns
Marines can exit Exos
Beacons work on Exos
Exos can upgrade to a dual-version later
Thus far I've seen only even, long matches that were exiting until the last minute and a constant back and forth of map control.
That is when both teams have equally good players and commanders who know what they are doing, which you can't really expect this shortly after a massive patch that changed a lot around. Not even talking about the current Free Weekend on Steam, which is surely going to net a lot of rookie players at the moment. Trying to make any judgment about balance under these circumstances is just silly.
Dude, ns2stats by default shows the past 2 weeks, which WAS horribly biased toward aliens. Change the filter to only show today and you find marines have a slightly more than 50% win rate. Stop spouting bullshit.
The last 2 patches you've made are only making the balance worse and worse making it more favourable to aliens.
Wow. You're the first one who doesn't complain about all the Alien nerfs and tells us they're in favor of them. Good job!
You're joking right?
increased lerk melee attack speed
stomp deals now damage
Railguns are now affected by umbra
Improved Crag Heal ability slightly
Increased Bile Bomb damage against Exosuits by 25%
I could list even more buffs, but let me just list more nerfs instead, just to show you how biased your selection is:
Fades got movement and structure damage nerfs
Fades got Vortex changed
Lifeforms don't get Biomass HP benefits until they research an expensive upgrade
Upgrades can be disabled by destroying all associated structures on the map
Lifeform eggs take longer to gestate
Alien respawn time got increased
Drifters are more expensive
Umbra requires 2 Hives now
Bile Bomb is on Biomass 3 now
Babblers don't give ludicrous amounts of HP anymore
Marines got movement buffs
Marines got Catpacks
Marines got Grenades
Marines got Dual Railguns
Marines can exit Exos
Beacons work on Exos
Exos can upgrade to a dual-version later
Thus far I've seen only even, long matches that were exiting until the last minute and a constant back and forth of map control.
That is when both teams have equally good players and commanders who know what they are doing, which you can't really expect this shortly after a massive patch that changed a lot around. Not even talking about the current Free Weekend on Steam, which is surely going to net a lot of rookie players at the moment. Trying to make any judgment about balance under these circumstances is just silly.
Vortex change can't be clarified as a buff or a nerf.
I do not see the changed saying anything about
Upgrades can be disabled by destroying all associated structures on the map
Alien respawn time got increased
I also only listed the buffs because they outway the nerfs by far.
Dual Railguuns aren't even a buff as you can only fire one at a time in which case you might as well just have a single rail exo.
The babbler change was needed.
Fade movement wasn't nerfed, they just require more energy usage.
Dude, ns2stats by default shows the past 2 weeks, which WAS horribly biased toward aliens. Change the filter to only show today and you find marines have a slightly more than 50% win rate. Stop spouting bullshit.
@Surefour You are either completely stupid or a troll most games are ended in the 10-25 minute window, excluding the alien base rush which is the 0-5 minute window... the graph then says for the 10-15 minute window marines win 75% of the time... in the 15-35 minute window the game is 50/50 win rate... since the majority of the games are ended in the 10-30 minute window, maines are not underpowered... get your facts right and like I said stop commenting on balance if you are as inexperienced as you seem to be
@Surefour You are either completely stupid or a troll most games are ended in the 10-25 minute window, excluding the alien base rush which is the 0-5 minute window... the graph then says for the 10-15 minute window marines win 75% of the time... in the 15-35 minute window the game is 50/50 win rate... since the majority of the games are ended in the 10-30 minute window, maines are not underpowered... get your facts right and like I said stop commenting on balance if you are as inexperienced as you seem to be
The 15-35 window is no where near 50/50. It's below 33% for marines.
But I might aswell just stop posting since they devs are never going to respond to a post and this just seems to be clouded by fanboys besides the few that actually like to explain their reasoning.
Dude, ns2stats by default shows the past 2 weeks, which WAS horribly biased toward aliens. Change the filter to only show today and you find marines have a slightly more than 50% win rate. Stop spouting bullshit.
Do you guys only balance around competitive 6v6 play
where these random nerfs/buffs with no interval between them balances competitive? every month the game changes so much that u become a rookie
and for what i can see from the changelog, aliens loses early game = alien loses the game, aliens are even with the marines = maybe they have a chance, aliens have 5rts in 8 minutes = mb they win.
that because now you have to waste 300res to get some lifeform going with some upgrades. 35res per alien path or whatever, really? Dont even care about those late game features, 9biomass for fade egg and some abilities? 9 biomass = 3hives, when u get 3hives on a comp 6v6 u prob will win with or without those new things.
and lets say, 4res for cysts + 10res rt + 8res drifter. now you waste almost half your starting res to grab a single rt, if it goes down it's gg. except if u bile rush their cc.
balanced for competitive 6v6 indeed, im kinda glad i retired before this patch
edit: but 12v12 is for fun, you shouldn't even care if u win or lose, just shoot.
might aswell just stop posting since they devs are never going to respond to a post and this just seems to be clouded by fanboys besides the few that actually like to explain their reasoning.
Perhaps instead of dementing into a laughable accusation of 'fanboys' you should just entertain the idea that you're simply wrong.
I do not see the changed saying anything about
Upgrades can be disabled by destroying all associated structures on the map
Alien respawn time got increased
You see, I actually played the game and compared the Lua files to the old version.
I wouldn't trust Hugh to catch all changes when he made that changelog, since it's based on what the developers write into their internal commits. And some smaller things can simply be forgotten during that process.
Fade movement got some variables changed, not just more energy consumption. Stuff like how much force it adds, how effective Celerity is in combination with Blink, etc.
EDIT:
Just took an actual look at Hugh's changelog. There are quite a few things missing from it, like supply cost adjustments, Onos Carapace buff, Flamethrower damage reduction, Ink cooldown increase, etc.
If you argue solely based on that list, your case is lost already.
Thus far I've seen only even, long matches that were exiting until the last minute and a constant back and forth of map control.
That is when both teams have equally good players and commanders who know what they are doing, which you can't really expect this shortly after a massive patch that changed a lot around. Not even talking about the current Free Weekend on Steam, which is surely going to net a lot of rookie players at the moment. Trying to make any judgment about balance under these circumstances is just silly.
f___, i didn't realize it was a free weekend... i was wondering why the hell there were so many greenies on the server... ugh, at least i was already reluctant to play it for performance reasons.
@Surefour You are either completely stupid or a troll most games are ended in the 10-25 minute window, excluding the alien base rush which is the 0-5 minute window... the graph then says for the 10-15 minute window marines win 75% of the time... in the 15-35 minute window the game is 50/50 win rate... since the majority of the games are ended in the 10-30 minute window, maines are not underpowered... get your facts right and like I said stop commenting on balance if you are as inexperienced as you seem to be
The 15-35 window is no where near 50/50. It's below 33% for marines.
But I might aswell just stop posting since they devs are never going to respond to a post and this just seems to be clouded by fanboys besides the few that actually like to explain their reasoning.
You're looking at the wrong dates or are too stupid to realize that you're looking at build 251 data as well... filter the results to include only 252&253...
I'm very near to coming to the conclusion you're just a troll since you joined the forum on the 15th and the only post you have are these troll post on this tread.
I'd say I had the balance issues bang on for servers larger than 12....all the way up to 32 it was done to perfection, the latest expansion has brought in everything I had enabled and scripted into the game since it most of this stuff you see now has been in just turned off! in the LUA files I have been tempted to come back to the game but reading a lot about the balance issues still and the fact the game still does not look like we are going to get a nice 32 man server going still..Ill hang back a little bit more
a nice solution to all this is to make pubies play 6v6-8v8 instead of god awful server and client performance breaking 12v12
this is not about balancing comp play vs pub play, its about balancing for player count, and so far 6v6-8v8 is more balanced, so play on those servers, cant? well instead of complaining about this complain about how every server is 12v12..
I'd like to answer your snide topic title with a snide response: Do people even bother to consider that:
* The last patch (b254 at time of writing) is VERY recent
* There is a free weekend going on
* UWE recommends a maximum player count of 16 players per server
So you're playing a new patch with a lot of unoptimized new features, hordes of rookies and hilarious high player counts.
And you wonder why balance feels off?
Give it a few days.
Comments
Forcing a beacon to leave the exos alone was a fairly effective way of getting rid of them. Can't do that anymore. Yeah, the aliens can delay the attack more easily now, but I think exos not being able to beacon was more beneficial for aliens; they could actually get more damage done during that time by taking out a lot of marine pres out of the game.
Also if the aliens are coordinated enough to achieve that while the marines are so unorganized that they don't split up instantly after the beacon, the aliens deserve to win anyway. It's not like the alien team can "instagib" the other base while also doing a considerable enough attack to cause a beacon to the other.
Not really considering that the marine movement changes makes dodging skulks even easier now.
I'm so glad you with your absolute knowledge and experience can explain why I know nothing.
I could list even more buffs, but let me just list more nerfs instead, just to show you how biased your selection is:
Fades got movement and structure damage nerfs
Fades got Vortex changed
Lifeforms don't get Biomass HP benefits until they research an expensive upgrade
Upgrades can be disabled by destroying all associated structures on the map
Lifeform eggs take longer to gestate
Alien respawn time got increased
Drifters are more expensive
Umbra requires 2 Hives now
Bile Bomb is on Biomass 3 now
Babblers don't give ludicrous amounts of HP anymore
Marines got movement buffs
Marines got Catpacks
Marines got Grenades
Marines got Dual Railguns
Marines can exit Exos
Beacons work on Exos
Exos can upgrade to a dual-version later
Thus far I've seen only even, long matches that were exiting until the last minute and a constant back and forth of map control.
That is when both teams have equally good players and commanders who know what they are doing, which you can't really expect this shortly after a massive patch that changed a lot around. Not even talking about the current Free Weekend on Steam, which is surely going to net a lot of rookie players at the moment. Trying to make any judgment about balance under these circumstances is just silly.
From 29.08.2013 - 29.08.2013 Marines only have a >50% winrate in 10-15 below matches, so thanks for proving my point
Vortex change can't be clarified as a buff or a nerf.
I do not see the changed saying anything about
Upgrades can be disabled by destroying all associated structures on the map
Alien respawn time got increased
I also only listed the buffs because they outway the nerfs by far.
Dual Railguuns aren't even a buff as you can only fire one at a time in which case you might as well just have a single rail exo.
The babbler change was needed.
Fade movement wasn't nerfed, they just require more energy usage.
Yeah, from a massive sample base of 26 played rounds. ~~woah~~
The 15-35 window is no where near 50/50. It's below 33% for marines.
But I might aswell just stop posting since they devs are never going to respond to a post and this just seems to be clouded by fanboys besides the few that actually like to explain their reasoning.
I only brought that up because Stele007 insisted that I do.
and for what i can see from the changelog, aliens loses early game = alien loses the game, aliens are even with the marines = maybe they have a chance, aliens have 5rts in 8 minutes = mb they win.
that because now you have to waste 300res to get some lifeform going with some upgrades. 35res per alien path or whatever, really? Dont even care about those late game features, 9biomass for fade egg and some abilities? 9 biomass = 3hives, when u get 3hives on a comp 6v6 u prob will win with or without those new things.
and lets say, 4res for cysts + 10res rt + 8res drifter. now you waste almost half your starting res to grab a single rt, if it goes down it's gg. except if u bile rush their cc.
balanced for competitive 6v6 indeed, im kinda glad i retired before this patch
edit: but 12v12 is for fun, you shouldn't even care if u win or lose, just shoot.
Perhaps instead of dementing into a laughable accusation of 'fanboys' you should just entertain the idea that you're simply wrong.
You see, I actually played the game and compared the Lua files to the old version.
I wouldn't trust Hugh to catch all changes when he made that changelog, since it's based on what the developers write into their internal commits. And some smaller things can simply be forgotten during that process.
Fade movement got some variables changed, not just more energy consumption. Stuff like how much force it adds, how effective Celerity is in combination with Blink, etc.
EDIT:
Just took an actual look at Hugh's changelog. There are quite a few things missing from it, like supply cost adjustments, Onos Carapace buff, Flamethrower damage reduction, Ink cooldown increase, etc.
If you argue solely based on that list, your case is lost already.
f___, i didn't realize it was a free weekend... i was wondering why the hell there were so many greenies on the server... ugh, at least i was already reluctant to play it for performance reasons.
You're looking at the wrong dates or are too stupid to realize that you're looking at build 251 data as well... filter the results to include only 252&253...
I'm very near to coming to the conclusion you're just a troll since you joined the forum on the 15th and the only post you have are these troll post on this tread.
/thread
this is not about balancing comp play vs pub play, its about balancing for player count, and so far 6v6-8v8 is more balanced, so play on those servers, cant? well instead of complaining about this complain about how every server is 12v12..
It can be balanced using dynamic parameters. At least if not perfect it wouldn't be a mess depending on server population. Nothing requiring a genius.
Dynamic parameters like what?
* The last patch (b254 at time of writing) is VERY recent
* There is a free weekend going on
* UWE recommends a maximum player count of 16 players per server
So you're playing a new patch with a lot of unoptimized new features, hordes of rookies and hilarious high player counts.
And you wonder why balance feels off?
Give it a few days.
Closing topic.