Quaxy wallhoppin clip

24

Comments

  • ScatterScatter Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2012-09-02 Member: 157341Posts: 635 Advanced user
    PaLaGi wrote: »
    Reading about the fade blink down and now this unintuitive wall jump reminds me why I hardly play this game anymore. :(

    And yet things like this keep me playing.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call?Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Posts: 3,191 Fully active user
    It should be either:

    a) kept, documented and announced in an official 'this is how the game works' video series

    or

    b) rewritten to be more intuitive (and still documented properly).

    @Therius: if you need to be told it and then practise it for 1/2h then it is, by definition, NOT intuitive!!!!!

    That's not to say it shouldn't necessarily be in the game, but at the very least we need proper official documentation for new and/or uninitiated players so that NO mechanic is hidden. Such hidden mechanics give the initiated few an unfair advantage over the majority. By all means, make the movement tricky to do at the highest level to give good depth to the skill-based system, but I'm really against whatever mechanics exist being hidden, whether intentionally or not.
    For all your gorge busting needs.
    It is very strange how some1 who spend so much time makeing videos to help mans, can fall and take miror image of dark ages bourgeoisie, outdated set of belifs
    How True.
    peregrinus
  • TheriusTherius Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Posts: 750 Advanced user
    I never said it's intuitive, but rantology tried to make explaining it sound more difficult than it is.

    Nobody said it needs to be hidden. But these guys want to 'fix' it because it's not apparent from the get-go. By all means make tutorial videos that include this bit, by no means remove it and make skulk movement boring as hell again.
    Railo
  • GORGEousGORGEous Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,461 Advanced user
    Therius wrote: »
    I never said it's intuitive, but rantology tried to make explaining it sound more difficult than it is.

    Nobody said it needs to be hidden. But these guys want to 'fix' it because it's not apparent from the get-go. By all means make tutorial videos that include this bit, by no means remove it and make skulk movement boring as hell again.

    Explain the full skulk movement, please. Be specific so that if I were a laymen then I would understand exactly what you mean.
    image
  • TheriusTherius Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Posts: 750 Advanced user
    GORGEous wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    I never said it's intuitive, but rantology tried to make explaining it sound more difficult than it is.

    Nobody said it needs to be hidden. But these guys want to 'fix' it because it's not apparent from the get-go. By all means make tutorial videos that include this bit, by no means remove it and make skulk movement boring as hell again.

    Explain the full skulk movement, please. Be specific so that if I were a laymen then I would understand exactly what you mean.

    Jump towards a wall in a 45 degree angle, exit the wall with a jump in a 45 degree angle. Press the strafe key facing the wall when jumping off of it.

  • RailoRailo Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2007-11-15 Member: 62925Posts: 18 Fully active user
    rantology wrote: »
    so... figuring out incredibly unintuitive game mechanics/exploits is where the skill lies?

    It should be common knowledge, the skillful part coming from how you use it/execution. Not figuring out tiny quirks/bugs in the system. This is why things like this get fixed, as fun as it is to be the one who knows about them/uses them, its not so fun for everyone else (general population) to have the chore of doing their homework so they can figure out x movement system bug just to be able to maintain the same potential as other players.

    First of all I wouldn't consider this a bug, more like a feature with the new movement code.
    One thing I start to really hate is the posts that everything in this game needs to be same for everyone, we cant have any skillbased mechanics soon. Everything that makes the players who give this game more time and make them better than average player needs to be nerfed in some way...

    There are people that play this game with a little more entusiasm than random pubgames now and then(Couple of these pubgamers make it look like they know how this game should be, and influences sewlek a little to much imo), and learning new ways to control your character is a nice feature for the more hardcore gamer. Just like walking/running everyone has their own style, and some are better runners than others. Now there is way to with curiosity+time+learning the possibility to get a speedbost of ~2.5speed that will not have any real impact in the pubgames because the average players wont have the motivation to learn it. If you really want to make the game for pubgames and eliminate the better gamers who join the pubgames ''to ruin the fun'' with the ''exploits'' just implement the ladder/matchmaking. UWE should at this point know that its highly demanded in this game and they do nothing.
    Blocking the power node with robotics factory can be considered a bug/exploit, the talked movement is a feature -> go ahead and learn it.



    kalakujaFulgo
  • GORGEousGORGEous Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,461 Advanced user
    edited July 2013
    Therius wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    I never said it's intuitive, but rantology tried to make explaining it sound more difficult than it is.

    Nobody said it needs to be hidden. But these guys want to 'fix' it because it's not apparent from the get-go. By all means make tutorial videos that include this bit, by no means remove it and make skulk movement boring as hell again.

    Explain the full skulk movement, please. Be specific so that if I were a laymen then I would understand exactly what you mean.

    Jump towards a wall in a 45 degree angle, exit the wall with a jump in a 45 degree angle. Press the strafe key facing the wall when jumping off of it.


    Now explain how that synergizes with bhopping (the opposite mechanic -- where you turn with your strafing). Roll it all up and you're basically looking at an explanation that looks like:

    Well you jump into a wall, hold your directional key toward that wall, then turn your mouse opposite of that key. Then in between jumps you hold either strafe key while turning your mouse in the direction of that strafe key and then you do the opposite when you come to another wall. Oh, you have to do these opposite mechanics about twice per second while using an untintuitive jump queuing system or else you lose most of your speed.

    It's just a really convoluted "mechanic." I, personally, don't find bug hunting to be a skillful endeavor. Not to mention using this makes the skulk too fast -- there's a reason the speedcap was set at 10 and 12.5 -- because anything faster was broken.
    image
    twiliteblue
  • TheriusTherius Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Posts: 750 Advanced user
    GORGEous wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    I never said it's intuitive, but rantology tried to make explaining it sound more difficult than it is.

    Nobody said it needs to be hidden. But these guys want to 'fix' it because it's not apparent from the get-go. By all means make tutorial videos that include this bit, by no means remove it and make skulk movement boring as hell again.

    Explain the full skulk movement, please. Be specific so that if I were a laymen then I would understand exactly what you mean.

    Jump towards a wall in a 45 degree angle, exit the wall with a jump in a 45 degree angle. Press the strafe key facing the wall when jumping off of it.


    Now explain how that synergizes with bhopping (the opposite mechanic -- where you turn with your strafing). Roll it all up and you're basically looking at an explanation that looks like:

    Well you jump into a wall, hold your directional key toward that wall, then turn your mouse opposite of that key. Then in between jumps you hold either strafe key while turning your mouse in the direction of that strafe key and then you do the opposite when you come to another wall. Oh, you have to do these opposite mechanics about twice per second while using an untintuitive jump queuing system or else you lose most of your speed.

    It's just a really convoluted mechanic. I, personally, don't find bug hunting to be a skillful endeavor. Not to mention using this makes the skulk too far -- there's a reason the speedcap was set at 10 and 12.5 -- because anything faster was broken.

    So what you're effectively saying is that you draw the line of too much complexity to what you've already learned, but no further?

  • GORGEousGORGEous Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,461 Advanced user
    Therius wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    I never said it's intuitive, but rantology tried to make explaining it sound more difficult than it is.

    Nobody said it needs to be hidden. But these guys want to 'fix' it because it's not apparent from the get-go. By all means make tutorial videos that include this bit, by no means remove it and make skulk movement boring as hell again.

    Explain the full skulk movement, please. Be specific so that if I were a laymen then I would understand exactly what you mean.

    Jump towards a wall in a 45 degree angle, exit the wall with a jump in a 45 degree angle. Press the strafe key facing the wall when jumping off of it.


    Now explain how that synergizes with bhopping (the opposite mechanic -- where you turn with your strafing). Roll it all up and you're basically looking at an explanation that looks like:

    Well you jump into a wall, hold your directional key toward that wall, then turn your mouse opposite of that key. Then in between jumps you hold either strafe key while turning your mouse in the direction of that strafe key and then you do the opposite when you come to another wall. Oh, you have to do these opposite mechanics about twice per second while using an untintuitive jump queuing system or else you lose most of your speed.

    It's just a really convoluted mechanic. I, personally, don't find bug hunting to be a skillful endeavor. Not to mention using this makes the skulk too far -- there's a reason the speedcap was set at 10 and 12.5 -- because anything faster was broken.

    So what you're effectively saying is that you draw the line of too much complexity to what you've already learned, but no further?

    I've already learned this mechanic.... I draw the line at this because it's pretty obviously a bug that bypasses a very necessary speedcap -- much like the downward blinking.
    image
  • kalakujakalakuja Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2012-09-11 Member: 159045Posts: 380
    GORGEous wrote: »
    It's just a really convoluted "mechanic." I, personally, don't find bug hunting to be a skillful endeavor. Not to mention using this makes the skulk too fast -- there's a reason the speedcap was set at 10 and 12.5 -- because anything faster was broken.

    This just shows you haven't really mastered the wallhopping or played versus wallhoppers. It makes a huge sound and the path is as predictable as ns1 skulks; so that it gives room for very skilled alien dodging vs good tracking.
    It's same mechanic as the bhopping but you use the wall as a floor and it gives extraboost for right directional input. It's no way unintuitive after you learn it and it has been used in matches since bt cup.

  • current1ycurrent1y Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2003-12-08 Member: 24150Posts: 677 Advanced user
    edited July 2013
    It makes a huge sound? You mean the squish sound and then the growl sound that you get w/o using the mechanic? What does the sound have to do with it? Is there a 3rd sound? Also strafing left to go right sounds rather unintuitive to me.
  • GORGEousGORGEous Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,461 Advanced user
    kalakuja wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    It's just a really convoluted "mechanic." I, personally, don't find bug hunting to be a skillful endeavor. Not to mention using this makes the skulk too fast -- there's a reason the speedcap was set at 10 and 12.5 -- because anything faster was broken.

    This just shows you haven't really mastered the wallhopping or played versus wallhoppers. It makes a huge sound and the path is as predictable as ns1 skulks; so that it gives room for very skilled alien dodging vs good tracking.
    It's same mechanic as the bhopping but you use the wall as a floor and it gives extraboost for right directional input. It's no way unintuitive after you learn it and it has been used in matches since bt cup.

    Nobody has mastered the wallhopping because it's been here for a couple months at most. I never claimed to have it mastered. That said, I'm pretty good at it -- probably better than 99.9% of the other players in the game.

    Ofcourse I've played against people who can wallhop. I've played in dozens of scrims on the BT mod including most of a tournament. I've both commanded and played the field. I've also played versus competent players all the time in pubs. Even the other day I was marines against a quaxy guy using this bug to fly around neck/pipeline on veil.

    This bug has nothing to do with the path or predictability of the skulk movement. It's simply a glitch that allows you to get around double the intended speed boost from a wall jump. Nothing more.

    It's the opposite of the bhop mechanic given that one has you turn in the direction of your strafe and the other has you turn opposite the direction of your strafe. The fact that it has been used in matches doesn't really matter if it's still considered a bug by Sewlek. The downward blink has been used in matches and it was rightfully removed.
    image
  • king_yoking_yo Members, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2009-04-15 Member: 67192Posts: 50 Fully active user
    GORGEous wrote: »
    It's the opposite of the bhop mechanic given that one has you turn in the direction of your strafe and the other has you turn opposite the direction of your strafe. The fact that it has been used in matches doesn't really matter if it's still considered a bug by Sewlek. The downward blink has been used in matches and it was rightfully removed.

    No it's not . It's the exact same thing. You jump off the wall then press the strafe key toward the wall aswell as turning your mouse toward the wall. This is the basic of bunnyhopping, strafing and turning the mouse in the same direction.

    If you don't believe me, try to do this movement and then transition (right after you jumped) into backward bunnyhop. This is the exact movement you do if you want to go from forward bh to backward bh, except that you stop it before you turn 180°.
    kalakujaRailo
  • GISPGISP Battle Gorge DenmarkMembers, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27460Posts: 1,232 mod
    edited July 2013
    I thought everyone was doing this... That is how I was able get to speed 20 with non-cele skulk in 2-3 jumps.

    It's quite simple as Gorgeous wrote... hold strafe towards wall and flick outwards.
    Yep this is absolutely a glitch. If anybody ever figured this out during the BT they certainly didn't share the knowledge.
    I myself have learnt not to share this sort of knowledge now, as it either gets removed/nerfed. I'm surprised elodea shared the fade drop speed on non-cele blink as well.

    Not reporting (and using) expliots is a good way to to get yourself banned, just saying :)
    Forum Mod - UWE server admin - Have questions about SN or NS2? Need help promoting SN or NS2? Found a bug, or exploit? Or just want to say hi. PM me.
    Become a NS2 Playtester - Become a SN playtester - Buy NS2 here - Buy SN here - Official NS2 stream - SN Wiki
    - NS2 Wiki A Rainbow!
    Nazo
  • RailoRailo Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2007-11-15 Member: 62925Posts: 18 Fully active user
    edited July 2013
    GISP wrote: »
    Not reporting (and using) expliots is a good way to to get yourself banned, just saying :)

    So atm you should ban atleast half of the pubcommanders for blocking power nodes with robotics factories, when is this going to happend ?
  • niitzeniitze Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2013-07-01 Member: 185839Posts: 26 Fully active user
    edited July 2013
    Not reporting (and using) expliots is a good way to to get yourself banned, just saying :)

    I dropped a robotics factory in front of power once, please don't ban me :(

    Edit: I've also made gorge tunnels in vents :'(
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688Posts: 0 Advanced user
    Edit: I've also made gorge tunnels in vents

    You MONSTER.
  • GORGEousGORGEous Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,461 Advanced user
    king_yo wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    It's the opposite of the bhop mechanic given that one has you turn in the direction of your strafe and the other has you turn opposite the direction of your strafe. The fact that it has been used in matches doesn't really matter if it's still considered a bug by Sewlek. The downward blink has been used in matches and it was rightfully removed.

    No it's not . It's the exact same thing. You jump off the wall then press the strafe key toward the wall aswell as turning your mouse toward the wall. This is the basic of bunnyhopping, strafing and turning the mouse in the same direction.

    If you don't believe me, try to do this movement and then transition (right after you jumped) into backward bunnyhop. This is the exact movement you do if you want to go from forward bh to backward bh, except that you stop it before you turn 180°.


    I thought that you strafe into the wall and flick your mouse away from the wall. As I understand it, that is the opposite mechanical movement of bhop. That's what the OP's video shows and that's what my limited testing has found. What do you mean by forward/backward bhop?
    image
    elodea
  • BentRingBentRing Members Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14318Posts: 397
    Therius wrote: »
    Yes, in an ideal world it would be intuitive. But it's taken UWE and now Sewlek years to come up with a movement mechanic that's both intuitive and has a high skill ceiling, and so far there's been no luck. The intended features of B250 skulk movement are a step in the right direction, but still feel a bit lackluster. With this mechanic the skulk movement feels, for the first time ever, fluid and satisfying. For the first time ever I regularly catch myself from jumping around Summit just for the hell of it. Removing such a mechanic would be spitting in the faces of those who have mastered it, and I can't bring myself to find it justified just because it's unintended when it works so damn well. Creating a movement mechanic that's both hard to master, satisfying and intuitive is not going to happen, so now that we finally have something that works, why screw it over?

    Totally off topic, but it amuses me that this post could have 'B250 skulk' replaced with '249 fade' and it would have applied just as well.

    Only bringing it up because the spit hasn't dried yet.
    a.k.a. Roland tHTG
  • TheriusTherius Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Posts: 750 Advanced user
    Not entirely sure I understand your implication, BentRing.
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Posts: 1,194
    YYYEAAAASSS, I have reached 2nd growl traveling speed!!! :-bd \:D/ :-bd
    image
  • BentRingBentRing Members Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14318Posts: 397
    edited July 2013
    Therius wrote: »
    Not entirely sure I understand your implication, BentRing.

    Oh I was just saying that your post would have been a good example of why the fade movement shouldn't be changed from the 249 to the 250 model but they changed it anyway so why shouldn't this be any different.

    I know it's not entirely apples to apples but I also typed it as a half joke so feel free to ignore it. :)
    a.k.a. Roland tHTG
  • ezekelezekel Members, NS2 Map Tester Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Posts: 1,385 Advanced user
    edited July 2013
    Zek wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    How to do this:

    At the wall jump part of your movement, hold the strafe key in the direction of the wall and flick the mouse away from the wall. This is the opposite mechanical movement of the standard bhop you do to retain speed on the ground, so then you need to transition to bhop in between to conserve your speed.

    This is likely a bug, because it is incredibly unintuitive -- even more so than bhop.

    Yep this is absolutely a glitch. If anybody ever figured this out during the BT they certainly didn't share the knowledge.

    We did find out about this, however we thought it was involved with having your camera facing the wall then strafing away; I tried reproducing it but was only able to do it 1 out of every 6 tries maybe, and randomly I'd get three in a row. I reported it and someone beforehand reported it and explained it to me which is when I tried to figure it out

    Anyway, the video OP figured it out and it's most likely going to get fixed
  • male_fatalitiesmale_fatalities ausns2.org Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-03-06 Member: 27185Posts: 673 Fully active user
    edited July 2013
    GISP wrote: »
    Not reporting (and using) expliots is a good way to to get yourself banned, just saying :)

    I'm not a playtester, if I invest my time to find unintended movement benefits and other people don't why would I want to share this to simply have it removed. I've released two movement video's now for skulk, one had skulk movement nerfed within 24 hours and the other nearly completely removed walljump in the next patch.

    Also who is to decide what is an exploit... What exactly will I be banned from?

    BHOP was an exploit, taken & loved by old school gamers. I don't really see the difference between one unintended movement mechanic and another.

    Please UWE, ban me from ns2 because you left a movement bug in the game and your playerbase discovered it. See how that goes...

    Pretty stupid comment GISP
    NS1: Boost|. mf
    NS2: asc . mf-
    TheriusTane
  • king_yoking_yo Members, WC 2013 - Shadow Join Date: 2009-04-15 Member: 67192Posts: 50 Fully active user
    GORGEous wrote: »
    king_yo wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    It's the opposite of the bhop mechanic given that one has you turn in the direction of your strafe and the other has you turn opposite the direction of your strafe. The fact that it has been used in matches doesn't really matter if it's still considered a bug by Sewlek. The downward blink has been used in matches and it was rightfully removed.

    No it's not . It's the exact same thing. You jump off the wall then press the strafe key toward the wall aswell as turning your mouse toward the wall. This is the basic of bunnyhopping, strafing and turning the mouse in the same direction.

    If you don't believe me, try to do this movement and then transition (right after you jumped) into backward bunnyhop. This is the exact movement you do if you want to go from forward bh to backward bh, except that you stop it before you turn 180°.


    I thought that you strafe into the wall and flick your mouse away from the wall. As I understand it, that is the opposite mechanical movement of bhop. That's what the OP's video shows and that's what my limited testing has found. What do you mean by forward/backward bhop?

    Nothing prevent you to strafe in the direction you flick your mouse for that 0.01 second but I'm not sure it will matter much. For the rest, it's still bunnyhopping movement.

    What I mean by forward/backward bunnyhop : forward bunnyhopping is simply what you usually do, you bunnyhop forward (in the direction you are looking at). Backward is the contrary, you move the opposite way of where you are looking at.
  • Katana-Katana- Members Join Date: 2008-11-25 Member: 65575Posts: 351
    edited July 2013
    GORGEous wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    GORGEous wrote: »
    Therius wrote: »
    I never said it's intuitive, but rantology tried to make explaining it sound more difficult than it is.

    Nobody said it needs to be hidden. But these guys want to 'fix' it because it's not apparent from the get-go. By all means make tutorial videos that include this bit, by no means remove it and make skulk movement boring as hell again.

    Explain the full skulk movement, please. Be specific so that if I were a laymen then I would understand exactly what you mean.

    Jump towards a wall in a 45 degree angle, exit the wall with a jump in a 45 degree angle. Press the strafe key facing the wall when jumping off of it.


    Now explain how that synergizes with bhopping (the opposite mechanic -- where you turn with your strafing). Roll it all up and you're basically looking at an explanation that looks like:

    Well you jump into a wall, hold your directional key toward that wall, then turn your mouse opposite of that key. Then in between jumps you hold either strafe key while turning your mouse in the direction of that strafe key and then you do the opposite when you come to another wall. Oh, you have to do these opposite mechanics about twice per second while using an untintuitive jump queuing system or else you lose most of your speed.

    It's just a really convoluted "mechanic." I, personally, don't find bug hunting to be a skillful endeavor. Not to mention using this makes the skulk too fast -- there's a reason the speedcap was set at 10 and 12.5 -- because anything faster was broken.

    I just wanted to throw this out there.

    Not everything needs to be intuitive to all players from the moment they start playing the game. To me this is the definition of shallow game play.
    If I can understand every aspect of the game, at face value, then the game isn't deep.
    Game mechanics should be built up in layers. Only the first layer should be intuitive to the complete beginner, and each subsequent layer should be intuitive once the layer before it is understood. This way the game feels like it is constantly evolving and rewarding mastery.

    While I agree, this style of wall jumping, is most likely going to be patched out, or at the very least have the speed cap breaking part of it removed... I will say, it isn't particularly counter intuitive from the view point of some one who already understands skulk wall jumping and speed preservation.

    The layers would be something like this for skulk wall jump:

    1st layer - "jump off walls at a shallow angle to gain speed" - very obvious, easy to explain, a complete noob can utilize it.
    1st layer - "Queue jumps by holding the jump button in the air to avoid losing speed when you hit the ground" - also very straight forward.

    2nd layer - "Use queued jumps and wall jumps to get and keep speed" - very intuitive given the first layer

    3rd layer - "Bend your jumps around corners by moving your mouse and strafing in the direction of the turn to keep speed while cornering" - This makes sense to a person who has already played around with layer 2... they understand that they spend a lot of time in the air and need some way to 'bend' around corners. Note that this layer makes no sense from the perspective of a 1st layer player.

    4th layer - "Bend your jumps the opposite way while wall jumping to improve the speed boost" - This is actually pretty intuitive and easy to understand for a person who already 'gets' 3rd layer movement.
    GORGEous
  • piratedavepiratedave Members Join Date: 2012-03-10 Member: 148561Posts: 214
    who needs skill when you have knowledge that others dont have :)

    i thought UWE didnt like hidden modifiers ?

    Also unintuitive mechanics are bad because some people are really bad at fighting against their own intuition while others are much better at it.
  • patpat Members Join Date: 2013-06-15 Member: 185569Posts: 48
    good game design would dictate picking up speed by just holding w+spacebar or something along those lines

    the depth would be created in actual combat situations, and the application of when and where to use the extra speed, rather than the rote performance of it. All these things do is create an incredibly arbitrary skill barrier for newer players while being incredibly easy to perform for experienced players. It is the absolute worst kind of mechanic to have in a competent shooter.

    these mechanics are also unintuitive and reward non-interactive skills, which are generally discouraged in modern fps design.
  • xDragonxDragon Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Posts: 1,954 Fully active user
    There's multiple 'mechanics' that can effect the speed you gain from walljumping - many of which have been confused both during BT and even still now. This mechanic is different from what most of people knew about during BT, but became more 'known' after the BT cup. The issue with this mechanic is that the majority of the extra speed comes from the mouse flick when jumping, to the point of you being able to accelerate extremely fast off of a single jump - i've seen 14+ speed on base skulk in b250 without celerity. I hope that the mouse flick speed will be fixed, but the other ones should remain IMO, as it still softcaps around 11 - 11.5 without celerity.
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