The Ultimate Commander Playbook

pDKpDK Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2237Members
<div class="IPBDescription">For those in need of inspiration.</div> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><u><b>The Ultimate Commander Playbook</b></u></span>

This play book is intended for an education purpose. You should not use this as your bible, just as an inspiration to strats that you may use in the near future.

<u><b>The Rush and Hold</b></u>
<b>Description</b>: You build an initial base that consists of: An armory, two Infantry portals (IP), and an observatory (OBS). One to Two people remain at base, building the equipment that you just recently placed, while the rest of the team storm to a hive location. Most people will usually then build a phase at base and a Phase to the hive location... other will tend to build a resource tower (RT) first at the hive. You will just have to make the best decision depending on what type of game you feel that the aliens will be running. After you secure the hive, with a turret factory (TF) and 3 - 4 turrets (SG), you have a choice: Either pick up another RT or go straight to the hive. Again, it's up to you to decide what you wish to do. It is at this point (when you secure another hive) where you pretty much won and all you have to do is clean up. You should always have AT LEAST one person patrolling each hive... whether it is one person at each hive, or one person using the phase gate to jump between the hives. A good time spot to begin upgrading is when you secure the first hive... again, your choice on how you should upgrade your marines.

<b>Theory</b>: Stop the aliens from securing the hives.

<b>Pros</b>:
1. Most versatile, you can alter this strat as you see fit... mid game even.
2. If done correctly, the aliens will never reach past the level 3 (lurk) aliens.

<b>Cons</b>:
1. If team does not cooperate (i.e.: "NEED HMG!"), this will fail
2. If Aliens secure the hive(s) quickly, they may be able to drive you back.

<b>Personal view</b>: I feel that this is probably the most over done strat out there. It also usually leads to the marines' death on public servers. But when I do use this strat, I try to take on BOTH empty hives at once... starting with a phase at each hive. A good team will be able to jump between the hives in just enough time in order to stop a skulk rush. Keywords: GOOD MARINE TEAM! I do feel that new commanders should master this strat before any other... it teaches them the basics and usually it leads to longer games (more time to practice).

<b>Time frame</b>: 20 - 40 minutes.


<u><b>Relocating Base</b></u>
<b>Description</b>: Much like the first strat, but you just build one IP at base then order the rest of your marines to an important position (weather it be a hive or a double RT area). You then lay down another Command Center (CC) and some new IPs. Lay some defense around the area and plant RTs respectfully. After you established this new base, the rest of the game follows much like the first strat.

<b>Theory</b>: It pretty much tells the marines bluntly: "If you do not defend this location, WE WILL DIE!"

<b>Pros</b>:
1. If you choose a hive location, it's a good bet that you will never see a onos. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
2. If aliens attack that location, the marines will respawn there thus making it harder for the aliens to break through the lines.

<b>Cons</b>:
1. If new base is killed before it has been established, the marines are pretty much toast then.
2. Long... dragged out games.

<b>Personal View</b>: I like this strat. It works wonderfully on public servers. Usually, I see the marines win from this strat. But there have been times where I would lay down the foundation and the aliens would come in and wipe it out before I get the first turret up. You are really just depending on your marines' aim on this one.

<b>Time frame</b>: 45 - 60 minutes


<u><b>The Bulldozer</b></u>
<b>Description</b>: You begin with the basic base: two IPs and an armory. You then send your marines out to rambo into the field for more RTs. Its best to have at least two marines stick together while they move through out the field. When they get to a node, drop the RT and tell them to find another. YOU DO NOT SPEND RESOURCES ON DEFENDING THAT LOCATION, EVEN IF IT'S A HIVE LOCATION! It's really crucial that you save as many resources as you can. If the RTs are attacked, however, feel free to recycle them just before they die. You should have at least 3 - 4 active RTs within the first 4 minutes (including the RT at your base). While your marines are out hunting, you are busy upgrading the armory and dropping both an Arms Lab and a Protolab. Once you have enough (50 RES) research Heavy Armor (HA). As soon as both the Armory and the Protolab has been upgraded, tell your marines to return back to base. It is at this time where you should dish out as many HAs and HMGs as you can. Drop one welder for every 4 people are in that group (so in a group of 10, two people should have a welder). Now have your marines move as a group to each hive location, make sure that the welders are CONSTANTLY welding the HAs. If a marine dies, do not let him go out with out at least 2 other people (one should have a welder). Also, gear him/them up with HAs and a few HMGs and send them back into the fray.

<b>Theory</b>: Given enough resources, the marines are able to upgrade a lot faster than the aliens.

<b>Pros</b>:
1. Works Perfectly in pub server (i.e.: "NEED A HMG! Ohh... thank you!")
2. Actually encourages Rambos (again, good in public servers)
3. Fun to watch! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

<b>Cons</b>:
1. If unable to gain enough resources, the marines will usually die a slow horrible death.

<b>Personal view</b>: I love this strategy. Its cut throat, straight to the point, kill them all before they kill you. Its truly is a wonderful sight to see 2 gorges running away while 7 HMGs gun them down. But again, if the aliens kill your marines while they attempt to capture resources, it's pretty much over.

<b>Time frame</b>: 10 - 20 minutes


I know there are a few other strategies out there, but they are so cheap and lame, and I really don't want to mention them (example: building IPs outside the main hive). But if there are any other strategies that I might have left out, feel free to tell me, I'll edit this book as new strategies are posted. Also, if anyone have demos of these strategies in action (winning or losing), feel free to post these as well. I'll be more than happy to post them (if it shows perfectly the commander's flaws and achievements). Again, use this as a learning tool, not as a bible. Be original or be dead!
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Comments

  • Seraphic8XSeraphic8X Join Date: 2002-06-15 Member: 771Members
    edited December 2002
    What about the earlygame LMG rush of alien's main hive?

    Marines start out, 2 build, the others go outside the base and wait for any incoming skulk rushes.

    Commander builds 2 IP's, Armory, and an Observatory. (no phase gate)
    One guy defends the base and mines the entrances.

    Four attack the hive.

    The Commander scans for the main hive location. The commander's job is to give health to the marines AND scan ahead of their group to see if any Skulks are hiding. The commander will then give away skulk positions. Once the four attackers get to the hive, 2 should attack spawners and the other 2 attack the hive itself. Game over.

    Keep in mind no phase gate is used in this strategy, and it's surprisingly effective - for those who think one is neccesary, a smart alien team will use it against you and wreak havoc on your own main base. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't had adequate experience.
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--pDK+Dec 31 2002, 12:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pDK @ Dec 31 2002, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I know there are a few other strategies out there, but they are so cheap and lame, and I really don't want to mention them (example: building IPs outside the main hive). But if there are any other strategies that I might have left out, feel free to tell me, I'll edit this book as new strategies are posted. Also, if anyone have demos of these strategies in action (winning or losing), feel free to post these as well. I'll be more than happy to post them (if it shows perfectly the commander's flaws and achievements). Again, use this as a learning tool, not as a bible. Be original or be dead!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    To Seraphic (Or whatever the name...) ^^^^^^^ LOOK UP!
  • Seraphic8XSeraphic8X Join Date: 2002-06-15 Member: 771Members
    edited December 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To Seraphic (Or whatever the name...) ^^^^^^^ LOOK UP! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    He said to post whatever strategies he missed, so I did.

    And that Infantry Portal outside the Hive strategy isn't the same as mine.
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    edited December 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--Seraphic8X+Dec 31 2002, 02:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seraphic8X @ Dec 31 2002, 02:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->  He said to post whatever strategies he missed, so I did.

    And that Infantry Portal outside the Hive strategy isn't the same as mine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He was referring to RUSHING.
    He doesn't think rushing is a valid tactic.
  • Seraphic8XSeraphic8X Join Date: 2002-06-15 Member: 771Members
    edited December 2002
    Yeah but marine rushing is just about the most viable strategy there is for the marines - so it's his problem for saying it is lame.

    And he didnt say rushing specifically was lame. He said that there are OTHER strategies that are lame. He also noted that there were strategies that he did leave out and told people to add to it. So I did.
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    The Arms Lab rush:

    2 IPs
    Armory
    Arms Lab

    Research lvl 1 armor

    while researching send 4 marines to scout and attack, have the other one (assuming 6v6) mine the base and build 2-3 RTs

    After an RT is built, research lvl 1 weapons.

    Build an obs.

    If the hive is not dead regroup, have the defender cap another RT (if possible) and attack one more time. If this fails, scan to see where the gorge is and to see if a second hive has started, if so go after that first, if not try to put pressure on the hive.

    usually this game ends fast, because lvl 1 armor lets the marines receive an extra skulk bite (3 instead of 2) before the die, just keep putting pressure on the hive and dont let them expand.
  • JettoJetto Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9468Members
  • KenichiKenichi This is not a pie. Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
    Firewater, its a shame that wont be usable in 1.04. Otherwise i'm suprised we never thought of it.
  • KenichiKenichi This is not a pie. Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
    The way you put it you arent rushing the arms lab. The arms lab is a suppliment to what should already be a lmg rush in progress.
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    Very good post, well written and formatted, too. ^^
  • Seraphic8XSeraphic8X Join Date: 2002-06-15 Member: 771Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Narfwak+Dec 31 2002, 03:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Dec 31 2002, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Very good post, well written and formatted, too. ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Is that sarcastic? Just because a post is brief doesn't mean its bad.
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Seraphic8X+Dec 31 2002, 03:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seraphic8X @ Dec 31 2002, 03:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah but marine rushing is just about the most viable strategy there is for the marines - so it's his problem for saying it is lame.

    And he didnt say rushing specifically was lame. He said that there are OTHER strategies that are lame. He also noted that there were strategies that he did leave out and told people to add to it. So I did.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I am not defending his thinking. I am just saying that it is a SIMPLE MATTER OF DEDUCTION to say that he thinks all early rushes are lame.

    He told other people to add other strategies, yes, BUT he does not ask for other strategies, which he would think is "lame." Why would he ask for something he does not like?
  • Seraphic8XSeraphic8X Join Date: 2002-06-15 Member: 771Members
    Well you're only implying that he thinks a rush is lame. For all you know he might just not like the idea of an IP rush.
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Seraphic8X+Dec 31 2002, 03:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seraphic8X @ Dec 31 2002, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well you're only implying that he thinks a rush is lame. For all you know he might just not like the idea of an IP rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Once again, a simple matter of deduction. If he does not like one rush, chances are HIGH that he will not like another kind.
  • Seraphic8XSeraphic8X Join Date: 2002-06-15 Member: 771Members
    High, but not certain. So you can't prove anything.
  • QuietMischief1QuietMischief1 Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7456Members
    Teh Delayed Rush, you wait for a bit of tech'ing so that you can do some damage to them with even less resistance, 2 skulk bites to 3 skulk bites is a world of difference

    And it can be tech'ed to faster and still have Obs Support before Aliens have 2 hives, however, in the event of a delayed rush you can expect 3 and upward number of D chambers under the hive
  • pDKpDK Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2237Members
    edited December 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--Kilmster+Dec 31 2002, 06:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kilmster @ Dec 31 2002, 06:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Canadianmonk3y+Dec 31 2002, 07:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canadianmonk3y @ Dec 31 2002, 07:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Seraphic8X+Dec 31 2002, 02:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seraphic8X @ Dec 31 2002, 02:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are you retarded?  He said to post whatever strategies he missed, so I did.

    And that Infantry Portal outside the Hive strategy isn't the same as mine.  Read carefully.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He was referring to RUSHING.
    HE THINKS RUSHING IS LAME. THEREFORE HE DOES NOT MENTION IT.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So, if he thinks marines playing their role correctly is lame; why is he playing marines?

    Frontiersmen are meant to be the offensive group.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I know that there are rushes out there... anyone could pull them off. But from my experience, I feel that this tactic is very cheap... ON THE OTHER HAND: War is not fair. Like you said before, a smart alien team could counter rush this attack. So... I will however <b>include</b> this tactic. Not because "It’s a tactic, and this is a book OF tactics", but because this is a learning tool. Aliens, not just marines, should be learning off this tool as well. Smart aliens should be able to see what tactics that the marines will be using, well before the marines have time to finish it (That’s why I said: "Be original or be dead"). So if you see marines coming to your base or you are notified of this type of rush, you should be able to counter rush the marines and get behind them or even attack THEIR base. So in the end, for me to say that this isn’t a valid tactic is not true. This is, and I will post this tactic as soon as I gain more info on the subject.

    EDIT: And to clarify, “Lame tactics” are tactics that exploit a coding flaw or issues that have yet to be resolved (Flayra is currently working on the removal of the IP/Phase Gate rush, hence the new resource value of the IP/Phase Gate). So until I can truthfully say that these issues have been resolved, I will not include them into this guide.
  • Seraphic8XSeraphic8X Join Date: 2002-06-15 Member: 771Members
    The LMG rush is hardly a cheap strategy. It's the most viable strategy available to the marines right now.

    In my original post, I said the only way to counter it is if you do decide to use a phase gate and the aliens reverse phase you. But in my strategy, the phase gate is omitted from the building order for a reason.

    Otherwise, 4 marines in a 6v6 being constantly notified of skulk positions with scans is nearly unstoppable at the beginning.

    If the aliens decide to attack the main marine base, they will encounter mines and a defender marine, all the while the marines are taking out the hive.
  • pDKpDK Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2237Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--FireWater+Dec 31 2002, 06:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Dec 31 2002, 06:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Arms Lab rush:

    2 IPs
    Armory
    Arms Lab

    Research lvl 1 armor

    while researching send 4 marines to scout and attack, have the other one (assuming 6v6) mine the base and build 2-3 RTs

    After an RT is built, research lvl 1 weapons.

    Build an obs.

    If the hive is not dead regroup, have the defender cap another RT (if possible) and attack one more time. If this fails, scan to see where the gorge is and to see if a second hive has started, if so go after that first, if not try to put pressure on the hive.

    usually this game ends fast, because lvl 1 armor lets the marines receive an extra skulk bite (3 instead of 2) before the die, just keep putting pressure on the hive and dont let them expand.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Good start. Let me try this strat out a few times to get more info on it. Or if you are one of thouse people who cant wait... PM a report much like the one I wrote about the strat and i'll just copy and paste it
  • ArdescoArdesco Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7831Members
    The arms lab rush usually works best with these two things in mind:
    You need a lot of cash in order to maintain superior levels of armor and weapons to make killing skulks even easier when the carapace upgrades appear.

    Second, by forestalling an early observatory, you leave yourself at risk to these two problems:

    1) a super early rush without distress beacon support

    2) Lack of early supply lines to a given location. Without phasegate support, any early attack is likely to have a difficult time getting its feet off the ground. In addition, without phasegates, your main base's defenses, once compromised, cannot be saved quickly by a teleporting marine. The arms lab rush usually forestalls upgraded armories until late game, as most of the focus is on superiority with the weapons the marines already have.
  • ArchzaiArchzai Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8007Members
    I like taking two hives.. it seems to be a safe strat.. and assures ur marines wont get overrun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> hahah

    as longa s they stick together

    the major CON is that if they manage to take a hive and get fades.. u bascially lose becuase all ur resources went to phase gates and defense at teh hives.... so not much into upgrading...
  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--pDK+Dec 31 2002, 06:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pDK @ Dec 31 2002, 06:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><u><b>The Bulldozer</b></u>
    <b>Description</b>: You begin with the basic base: two IPs and an armory. You then send your marines out to rambo into the field for more RTs. Its best to have at least two marines stick together while they move through out the field. When they get to a node, drop the RT and tell them to find another. YOU DO NOT SPEND RESOURCES ON DEFENDING THAT LOCATION, EVEN IF IT'S A HIVE LOCATION!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I like this one. Especially if your commander buys you early-game Motion tracking. With that the marines will be much more efficient at capping nozzles.

    You cap a nozzle, you proceed down the hall. You notice a blip coming near the nozzle. You stand still, in sight of the nozzle but far away. Skulk leaps at the apparently lonesome nozzle and starts chomping. Your marines lay fire down on the skulk and saves the nozzle for another minute.

    Without MT they might just have moved on and the nozzle would die a terrible death, eaten alive by a ravenous skulk.

    Early game motion tracking is a do-or-die upgrade for tactics that does not rely on a brute force hive lockdown. Res up, upgrade, then invade a hive with expediency, using pent up ressources to fortify it quickly.
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin--Seraphic8X+Dec 31 2002, 06:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seraphic8X @ Dec 31 2002, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Narfwak+Dec 31 2002, 03:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Dec 31 2002, 03:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Very good post, well written and formatted, too.  ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Is that sarcastic? Just because a post is brief doesn't mean its bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I was referring to the first post in a positive, constructive manner.

    Other people with other opinions do exist; while you may not like their opinions or their character, you must at least act in a civil manner toward them. Please start doing so.
  • J2pcJ2pc Join Date: 2002-12-05 Member: 10485Members
    uuuuh, Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was some talking about not letting the aliens expand.

    I always thought that the aliens where the guerilla here??
    I think your marines r way to slow to do that, espicially since hives have multiple entrances (think vents/doors etc)

    The part not-defending anything. ok, so the skulks will chew up about anything u put down.
    a gorg covered by a couple of skulks will take a hive, get it up, get it defended = lvl 2 aliens = fades = bad without defense, then u r kinda screwed. Maybe this will work when u got real crappy aliens.
    U got your forces scattered all over the place, no way u gonna counter any attack with average aliens.

    I think it MIGHT work. but u will have to defend the hive locations. Otherwise, a skulk will just run in, hide in a corner, evolve to gorg and get all the stuff up without u ever noticing, cause the skulks r causing havock at the edge of your pourly defended territory.

    and uhm, what about your response time, if they die, they'll have to run across the map and that's dangerous. They either get ambushed, or die at the same location.

    This is just a thought, I've never seen this strat, but from my experience in NS as an alien, this won't work.
    (I might have seen it once though, not sure, was gorg then. We had 1 hive. I put a lot of res in def while my skulks cracked open the other hives. We won, lvl 1 aliens vs ha/hmg marines. How's that)
  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The part not-defending anything. ok, so the skulks will chew up about anything u put down.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have a lad or two back at base. With motion tracking you will see them incoming in good time. Also thecommander so he can pop out of his comfy chair and help a bit.


    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->a gorg covered by a couple of skulks will take a hive, get it up, get it defended = lvl 2 aliens = fades = bad without defense, then u r kinda screwed. Maybe this will work when u got real crappy aliens.
    U got your forces scattered all over the place, no way u gonna counter any attack with average aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How fast will they do that if your marines have been busy knocking down alien res chambers? You are aware that it takes a while for the kharaa to accumulate 80 res right?
    And when that's done they also need res for more chambers and for evolving.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it MIGHT work. but u will have to defend the hive locations. Otherwise, a skulk will just run in, hide in a corner, evolve to gorg and get all the stuff up without u ever noticing, cause the skulks r causing havock at the edge of your pourly defended territory.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Your Motion tracking marines are your defendants. They roam the map in pairs and have top information on alien movement. If the map is favourable they can guard more than one nozzle.

    All the while res hoards up home at base and your comm is busy buying upgrades AS WELL as saving up for a hive attack. It doesn't matter if the nozzles go down at some point when you need your men. As long as a nozzle survives for some 70 seconds it will be a profit venture.

    Then at an appropriate moment you call all marines home, give them some equipment and wp them a hive (preferably an empty one but the newly acquire alien one could work too).

    Now, the aliens have a res shortage compared to earlier. Their gorge needs to go out and spen res points on re-capping the nozzles that skulks have destroyed after marines went home.

    Now your marines are attackign a hive. They got ok weapons and upgrades. Commander spams them with ammo and hp, they weld.

    Aliens notice this and concentrate on attacking the marines.

    The commander could have been sufficiently smart to have one of his home lads go out and cap a res nozzle again while the kharaa is busy. Perhaps even bag an unsuspecting gorge.


    What I am trying to say is: You can win on a different strategy. Come 1.04 we will see several marine nerfs that will favour this strategy more than previously. I do believe a late hive lockdown can work, since the aliens aren't getting it for free because the marines are pushing them on the res instead.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    and uhm, what about your response time, if they die, they'll have to run across the map and that's dangerous. They either get ambushed, or die at the same location.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    then they dont go. And you got motion tracking, remember?

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    This is just a thought, I've never seen this strat, but from my experience in NS as an alien, this won't work.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well come 1.04 marines darn better well start learning new tricks since the phase gate rush and siege gunning arent like it used to be.
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    The Arms lab rush works trust me, especially on ns_tanith, it is so easy to rush the aliens they'll start crying after they get murdered 4 or 5 times in a row.

    I agree with Seraphic8X, the marines have to put pressure on the aliens from the start. This means not going after unoccupied hives, but by going after their main hive. While the rush is going on the defender starts building things so that the marines can maintain dominance throughout the map. Hunting the gorge is key, although it is a little more difficult by going arms lab first instead of Observatory. The Marines have to be on the offensive as soon as that arms lab is up, otherwise they have 0 chance. Turtling will do nothing besides delay the defeat of the marines, there has to be conflict and pressure put on in the beginning to keep the Aliens "Honest".
  • travtrav Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7417Members
    i really like the sound of the bulldozer strategy. i'm not terribly confident on using it in a pub server but i'll give it a try anyway.

    the bulldozer strategy has been reasoned out in this thread so it obviously has theoretical grounds for working.

    too many marines fail to see the advantage of pressing alien resourses, ESPECIALLY early in the game. for about a week i played as a gorge hunter, shooting off as soon as the home base was built to hunt gorges and undefended caps. the 16+22 res the aliens loose from finding a gorge capping is a big blow, not to mention the loss of income.

    someone said aliens make better guerrillas than marines, this is true to an extent, but a smart marine can still do it. especially with motion tracking (although it seems to be bugged on most servers)

    the main advantage of the bulldozer strategy in my opinion is that it is fresh, looks fun and brings the focus of the game back into resourse control, because that is what rts games are supposed to be about.

    remember, it doesn't matter if aliens have two hives if they don't have the resourses to change into a fade
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    It is bugged on Linux servers but that will be fixed.
  • LucidLucid Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10534Members, Constellation
    I don't like rushes of any kind because I like fighting long battles. I hate joing a server, waiting fo rit to load, joing a team, waiting to spawn in, "oh look we won", readyroom, join a team, game starts "oh wait, it doesn't really start, its a new map!" wait for it to load, ready room, join a team, game starts, marines rush, game over, repeat. Just one of the many reasons I don't play CS anymore, rounds are too short.
  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    edited January 2003
    I envision the following balance in matches being a good load:


    out of 10 matches, 5 is won by marines, 5 is won by aliens. We talk skilled marines that know how to act and follow commanders' orders, but also be able to take the initiative while still sticking together. Good players, though not clan elite. Same with aliens, experienced.

    Out of those 10, perhaps 6 or 7 is finished after an extended battle for ressources. The aliens get their 2nd hive with little or small trouble from the marines. The marines are fighting the aliens on the map, for ressources. The game evolves into fades vs upgraded marines, even some with heavy stuff. Hives are besieged, perhaps lost, but regained. After a bloody struggle, where the outcome isnt clear untill the last 10 minutes, the game ends. It lasts 45 minutes to 1,5 hours.

    The last 3 to 4 are either the marines losing to great skulking in the start, that delays the marines becuse they're caught with their knickers down trying one strategy, but the aliens caught on and foiled it. Another could be a brutal hive lockdown executed with skill and luck that sends the aliens frantically attacking the 2nd hive to unlock it, but they never manage to. Both these games should last shorter than the 6 above. No fun knowing you're doomed for 1 hour...

    And then there's the really annoying one where marines manage to pull off a hive rush or skulks manage to totally overwhelm marines from the start so that once they're able to move out of their base, the game is on its way to losing.

    To sum it up: most battles are fought conventionally in the strategic sense, but a few are decided by one side or another managing to pull off something gutsy or wily that send their opponent into a daze that makes it possible to strike the felling blow soon after. Like boxing, it is not fun with a match that lasts 2 rounds too often, is it?

    The latter part is happening too often.

    But what i like is games that are unpredictable to some extent, and aren't decided the minute the battle for the 2nd hive is lost. How to do it is the great project. The fun games is when marines are allowed to try their better tech, and aliens can use fades and umbra. As I see it now, marines lose often to res lack compared to the aliens. They cannot afford upgrades fast enough, or a bit of heavy equipment. AT least not enough for it to matter.

    1.04 will tone down brutal hive rush/sieges. It will also tone down the fades acid spam advantage. So I hope to see some more ground fighting for res with teching up marines vs skulks, fades and lerks.


    Also the powering down of the fade hopefully results in marines beign more brave against them. They CAN die with a concerted attack... but if 4 fades gang up, you WILL need heavy equipment to survive their onslaught.
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