Alien attack fire rates?

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

Trying to put together a table, for it I need the fire rates of the following attacks:
Skulk Bite
Lerk Bite
Lerk Spike
Fade Swipe
Onos Gore

I have all but the Lerk Bite and Onos Gore from the wiki (they could be wrong though), unfortunately it is incomplete and doesn't have the other values. Can anyone provide them?

Ok, doing quick tests in game (attack for 10 seconds, divide by damage, divide by 10) it seems that almost all the wiki answers are wrong, so anyone have the correct ones?

shriike · June 2013

divide by damage, divide by 10? You're wanting to find the fire rate right? the attack speed? Just find how many times it attacks in 10 seconds and divide it by 10. Easy estimate right there.

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

Yes, but those are estimates, I was hoping for exacts, will use estimates if I have to though. But somewhere in the files there HAS to be the rate of fire.

EDIT: Also, if there's any difference, I want BT values.

Lúst · June 2013

.5 skulk

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

Where did you get the value from?

ScardyBob · June 2013

IIRC, the fire rates of weapon/attacks are specified in the animation graphs rather than lua files. Basically, you have to dig through the .animation_graph files using the Viewer.exe:

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

Is speed the same as rate of fire?

EDIT: Why is stuff half out of the window in the animation graph window?

EDIT2: Can move with middle mouse I see...

EDIT3: Swipe speed "attack_speed" that's just awesome.

EDIT4: Got Skulk and Onos, can't figure the others out.

ultranewb · June 2013

Attack times are based on the animation times. Using a metronome, the attack speed for skulk bite is 127 attacks per second, which is about 0.47 attack speed. At higher FPS, the speed is held constant for a very long time. At 35 FPS, the attack speed get out of sync after about 4 seconds - it's just slightly faster.

Contrary to belief, FPS still does affect fire rate.

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

Probably on client side only though.
The wiki says the skulk attack delay is 0.45 (that means about 2.22 attack speed), yet the animation graph says speed 2 like in the image above. The onos anim graph says 1.2 speed, the others I can't find.

Sewlek · June 2013

alien melee attack rates in the bt mod are exactly the same as in vanilla

matso · June 2013

Back before animation-controlled attack speeds, the skulk attack speed was 0.45, and it should be pretty close to that now.

IIRC, the "speed" value is how much faster to run the animation compared to its inherent speed. So you would need to load the attack animation in some kind of editor (3DStudioMax?), see how fast it runs there, then check for "speed" settings, then verify that the "speed" setting is actually used...

Or you could use a stopwatch to time how long it takes to do 20-30 attacks.

I think you can figure out which way is easier...

sotanaht · June 2013

More accurate would be counting the attacks per time period rather than the time period per attacks. How many attacks can a skulk make in 2 minutes, then do the math. The longer your time period, the closer to exact the number will be. The only difficult one is the lerk spike because it shoots too fast to count. You will probably have to use a time to kill on a building and work out the dps.

lwf · June 2013

matso wrote: »

Back before animation-controlled attack speeds

Why was it changed to be controlled by animations?

RedSword · June 2013

lwf wrote: »

matso wrote: »

Back before animation-controlled attack speeds

Why was it changed to be controlled by animations?

ultranewb wrote: »

[...]Contrary to belief, FPS still does affect fire rate.

Could those two be related ? (I feel like the former causes the latter)

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

Guess I'll do an average timing then.

ultranewb · June 2013

RedSword wrote: »

lwf wrote: »

matso wrote: »

Back before animation-controlled attack speeds

Why was it changed to be controlled by animations?

ultranewb wrote: »

[...]Contrary to belief, FPS still does affect fire rate.

Could those two be related ? (I feel like the former causes the latter)

It all depends on granularity and how it's measured.

Pretend that granularity is 30 frames per second (33.3333 milliseconds). A 470 millisecond animation is 14.1 frames. The extra frame would add N/2 (i.e. 15 milliseconds) extra for every animation. So, 450 for the animation alone would explain why I was measuring 470 using a metronome at high FPS. The extra 5ms is probably general overhead of code.

gimmic · June 2013

Why not create a mod to count them and even determine fire rate for you?

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

I'm sure I could, sounds like a lot of effort though, I might just use AHK to hold down M1 for exactly 10 seconds, that should work.

sotanaht · June 2013

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

I'm sure I could, sounds like a lot of effort though, I might just use AHK to hold down M1 for exactly 10 seconds, that should work.

Your going to have some error because of the time between the last attack and the 10 second mark. The longer you increase the time window, the smaller that error becomes.

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

Close enough though, maybe 20s then.

ultranewb · June 2013

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

Close enough though, maybe 20s then.

A very easy way to test would be to use some visualization. Download Audacity and create a click track. Record the skulk bite for 20 or 30 seconds and compare it to the click track. This will tell you two things: if bites are all the same length and how accurate you BMPs measurements are.

I just did this while facing a wall. The FPS still fluctuated between 140 and 160. I recorded the bite for a little over twenty seconds. Sometimes, there were small difference between bites. A click track of 129 BMP exactly matched the pattern - even with the small variances. 128 and 130 BMP tracks got out of sync. This equates to 465ms per bite.

At an extra 15 ms per bite with very precise measurement and a very large sample size, I can say with pretty high confidence that granularity is 30 frames per second. The animation is 450ms with N/2 overhead, where N is the granularity.

[/drops mic - walks off of stage]

Ghosthree3 · June 2013

ultranewb wrote: »

Ghosthree3 wrote: »

Close enough though, maybe 20s then.

A very easy way to test would be to use some visualization. Download Audacity and create a click track. Record the skulk bite for 20 or 30 seconds and compare it to the click track. This will tell you two things: if bites are all the same length and how accurate you BMPs measurements are.

I just did this while facing a wall. The FPS still fluctuated between 140 and 160. I recorded the bite for a little over twenty seconds. Sometimes, there were small difference between bites. A click track of 129 BMP exactly matched the pattern - even with the small variances. 128 and 130 BMP tracks got out of sync. This equates to 465ms per bite.

At an extra 15 ms per bite with very precise measurement and a very large sample size, I can say with pretty high confidence that granularity is 30 frames per second. The animation is 450ms with N/2 overhead, where N is the granularity.

[/drops mic - walks off of stage]

http://i40.tinypic.com/b9ip34.gif

IronHorse · June 2013

@ultranewb as helpful as your posts are sometimes, i can never, no matter how hard i try, take you serious when i see that avatar.
I imagine you taking a crap while posting, and your voice sounding like that... everytime.

)

ultranewb · June 2013

That's a Special Olympics participant lifting weights. That being said, the cleanliness of his pants is questionable.

CrazyEddie · June 2013

IronHorse wrote: »

@ultranewb as helpful as your posts are sometimes, i can never, no matter how hard i try, take you serious when i see that avatar.

You're one to talk.

SantaClaws · July 2013

sotanaht wrote: »

The only difficult one is the lerk spike because it shoots too fast to count. You will probably have to use a time to kill on a building and work out the dps.

And once you have the dps, you devide 9.5 with that number, then you have "seconds per spikes".
9.5 is the damage of lerk spikes. 9.5, because every odd spike deals 9 damage, while every other spike deals 10..

So the pattern is; 9, 19, 28, 38, 47, 57 and so on.

gimmic · July 2013

Santa, now I hope you're planning on adding this information to the wiki

Alien attack fire rates?

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