And then every time aliens enter my base when I command, I'll just fake it unless they remain
It costs you 10 res, the aliens hear the "cancel" noise, are only 2 seconds away, and your obs is in cool-down. I see a very small margin where it can be exploited in your scenario. If cancel is no longer available after 50%, it's an almost non-existent margin.
I don't see anything unintuitive. Audio cues are a normal part of the game, and expected. Cool-downs are a common RTS mechanic. I'd argue that it's unintuitive that everything else has a cancel, but beacon does not.
What cracks me up is how the beacon system works, so lets say you're playing ns_veil and you have an obs in control, obs in pipeline and by miracle an obs in nano/dbl res which you've taken. Aliens spawn in sub and having lost nano say fuck this lets rush base, they take down the obs in control before it beacons and start going to town on IPs/arms/etc, the commander can select the obs in nano grid and that beacon will port people to control because any obs anywhere on the map seems to default to the first CC.
What cracks me up is how the beacon system works, so lets say you're playing ns_veil and you have an obs in control, obs in pipeline and by miracle an obs in nano/dbl res which you've taken. Aliens spawn in sub and having lost nano say fuck this lets rush base, they take down the obs in control before it beacons and start going to town on IPs/arms/etc, the commander can select the obs in nano grid and that beacon will port people to control because any obs anywhere on the map seems to default to the first CC.
That makes no fucking sense.
Observatories beacon you to the closest CC. From Nano-grid, this is control.
I'm in favour of beacons respawning all dead marines, but mostly because alien players seem to think it's the case anyway. I can't count the number of times we've wiped out most of the marines defending a base and my teammates bail as soon as the beacon sound goes off...a few seconds later, 2 marines phase in but the aliens are gone and all those dead marines slowly trickle back into the match. If my teammates are gonna bail when that beacon goes off (which is usually the right action of course), there best be a large number of marines coming!
Equally, there's nothing worse as a commander than hitting the beacon and nobody's alive for the teleport.
What cracks me up is how the beacon system works, so lets say you're playing ns_veil and you have an obs in control, obs in pipeline and by miracle an obs in nano/dbl res which you've taken. Aliens spawn in sub and having lost nano say fuck this lets rush base, they take down the obs in control before it beacons and start going to town on IPs/arms/etc, the commander can select the obs in nano grid and that beacon will port people to control because any obs anywhere on the map seems to default to the first CC.
It's also possible to lose power in a base and quickly set up an obs in a nearby powered room to beacon back in, as long as the CC is still present. I'm yet to have an opportunity in game to try it but it would be ultra!
I guess you could also build 1 obs to service a single side of the map, and then start recycling the other CC(s) just before the beacon alarm finishes to force the beacon to go to a particular CC - can't see why that wouldn't work. Would be hard to get right but would be pretty slick...
... and most likely result in me accidentally recycling all of my tech points
I still remember the first time i saw a marine comm beacon from an out of base obs.. we heard the sound going, took out the power before it completed and assumed we were safe only to have a full team of SG marines appear. We lost 2 Fades and an Onos. Was a serious 'WTF' moment (assumed it was a bug). They did it again a few minutes later when we rushed the same base. I clicked after that.
I guess you could also build 1 obs to service a single side of the map, and then start recycling the other CC(s) just before the beacon alarm finishes to force the beacon to go to a particular CC
I think someone did a test of this a while back and found that the CC has to have completely recycled to beacon to a further away CC... don't quote me on that though
I still remember the first time i saw a marine comm beacon from an out of base obs.. we heard the sound going, took out the power before it completed and assumed we were safe only to have a full team of SG marines appear. We lost 2 Fades and an Onos. Was a serious 'WTF' moment (assumed it was a bug). They did it again a few minutes later when we rushed the same base. I clicked after that.
I think it's a great addition to the overall beacon system - offers a few rare but interesting strategic options.
What cracks me up is how the beacon system works, so lets say you're playing ns_veil and you have an obs in control, obs in pipeline and by miracle an obs in nano/dbl res which you've taken. Aliens spawn in sub and having lost nano say fuck this lets rush base, they take down the obs in control before it beacons and start going to town on IPs/arms/etc, the commander can select the obs in nano grid and that beacon will port people to control because any obs anywhere on the map seems to default to the first CC.
That makes no fucking sense.
Sadly, obs beacon to the nearest CC rather than the obs itself. Personally, I preferred the beacon to the obs as it made more sense and led to some cool rush tactics.
But was completely broken in that you could sneak obs a hive and have it killed in 20 seconds.
That doesn't sound too dissimilar to a ninja pg at the hive though...
It could certainly reduce the costs of getting your 2nd base up early/mid game. No need to rush that 2nd CC if your guys beacon to the obs instead.
ultimately, although it would open up way more options for marines, i think at this stage in the game development it'd be a nightmare to implement and balance.
The difference to a PG is that it FORCES the whole team to the hive, not just give the option to idiots/people not near a PG. Also the space required to drop an obs is smaller.
The difference to a PG is that it FORCES the whole team to the hive, not just give the option to idiots/people not near a PG. Also the space required to drop an obs is smaller.
Both valid points, though i wouldn't say that alone would be a reason not to implement it. theres significant risk v reward getting your marine in there, finding a free spot, getting power up, the res involved in building the obs, and the beacon cost itself, and is no more effective in a competent team than a PG. (you could beacon to base and rush through the PG if players are not nearby or hesitant to follow orders)
Plus a PG will allow your marines to get back to base to defend and/or give map control to that TP. I just don't see why you'd opt for a ninja obs over a pg unless you had no faith in your team to use it. (it's also quieter... not that aliens would have time to respond once the beacon sound went off)
Edit: Though giving it some more thought.. it'd certainly be an all-in option early game if you havn't got pg's researched
The real issue comes in strategic map positions. generally, alien teams can rush a PG outside a TP and turn it into a meat grinder, throw an obs nearby though, and it'd be much more difficult for the aliens.
E.g.
Marines have set up a pg reactor core to push into atrium hive. Aliens push them back and get on the PG. beacon goes off in reactor/glass hallway, and aliens either flee or are met by a wave of reinforcements.
OR, the aliens target the obs, and are met by a wave of marines coming in through the PG.
An Obs spreads the team across the room and makes them appear at random locations while a PG can easily turn into a meat grinder.
Also, marines will soon be able to build stuff (slower) on infestation, so finding a free spot won't be an issue anymore. And they will be able to power stuff for 30 seconds without a power node at the cost of res if they have a Robotics Factory, so the power doesn't need to be built either. The current Obs mechanics are fine and ninja PGs will become more viable/easier to pull off in the future.
I always thought a beacon in NS2 would respawn one dead Marine per Infantry Portal as well as recall alive Marines?
Pretty sure that is the case. if your already spawning in when the beacon goes off, you'll spawn instantly at the destination. You just need to make sure you've got 5-11 IP's to make sure everyone spawns for the beacon xD
I preferred the beacon to the obs as it made more sense and led to some cool rush tactics.
Was it ever that way in NS2? NS1?
Would make for some pretty interesting changes to the game in pub play
That's how it worked for alpha/early beta when the obs was first implemented. It was actually quite fun because beacon was more than just an 'oh shit' button.
But was completely broken in that you could sneak obs a hive and have it killed in 20 seconds.
Only for the most unobservant comms/teams. I was never able to get an obs in a hive room when it was in during the beta. Also, its a nice high risk/reward scenario, since beacon pulls all of your players to the obs. You've effectively left the entire rest of the map undefended in a huge push to kill a hive. It was a great tactic in the beta that I was sad to see eliminated.
Edit: I found an example of how this was in the early beta and my favorite beacon tactic (go to 5:17):
Though, back then the GL was an attachment to the assault rifle so GL beacon rushes were more useful.
nezz wrote: »<br />
i like how it works, i wish you could cancel it thou.<br />
<br />
You can cancel it by recycling the obs then cancel the recycle while the obs is 'researching' beacon.
There needs to be a less retarded and hidden way to implement this. After 450 hours this is the first I hear of it.
the problem with beacon right now is it's an all or nothing action. Take back all your live marines no matter where they are. so if you have a small team in an important position (IE: next to a hive) you lose that position and now back at square one. You should be able to select people you dont want to be effected by the next beacon. IE: if you have a small team going out to get a phase by a hive or something, you can select them and disable the effect of beaconing on them this way if something happens at base you can beacon all your spare marines to base leaving selected group at whatever position they were in and not lose that crucial position.
the problem with beacon right now is it's an all or nothing action. Take back all your live marines no matter where they are. so if you have a small team in an important position (IE: next to a hive) you lose that position and now back at square one. You should be able to select people you dont want to be effected by the next beacon. IE: if you have a small team going out to get a phase by a hive or something, you can select them and disable the effect of beaconing on them this way if something happens at base you can beacon all your spare marines to base leaving selected group at whatever position they were in and not lose that crucial position.
This is a working and intended feature. It gives aliens the possibility to foil a marine push without having to engage them.
Comments
It costs you 10 res, the aliens hear the "cancel" noise, are only 2 seconds away, and your obs is in cool-down. I see a very small margin where it can be exploited in your scenario. If cancel is no longer available after 50%, it's an almost non-existent margin.
I don't see anything unintuitive. Audio cues are a normal part of the game, and expected. Cool-downs are a common RTS mechanic. I'd argue that it's unintuitive that everything else has a cancel, but beacon does not.
That makes no fucking sense.
Observatories beacon you to the closest CC. From Nano-grid, this is control.
I'm in favour of beacons respawning all dead marines, but mostly because alien players seem to think it's the case anyway. I can't count the number of times we've wiped out most of the marines defending a base and my teammates bail as soon as the beacon sound goes off...a few seconds later, 2 marines phase in but the aliens are gone and all those dead marines slowly trickle back into the match. If my teammates are gonna bail when that beacon goes off (which is usually the right action of course), there best be a large number of marines coming!
Equally, there's nothing worse as a commander than hitting the beacon and nobody's alive for the teleport.
... and most likely result in me accidentally recycling all of my tech points
I think someone did a test of this a while back and found that the CC has to have completely recycled to beacon to a further away CC... don't quote me on that though
Would make for some pretty interesting changes to the game in pub play
It could certainly reduce the costs of getting your 2nd base up early/mid game. No need to rush that 2nd CC if your guys beacon to the obs instead.
ultimately, although it would open up way more options for marines, i think at this stage in the game development it'd be a nightmare to implement and balance.
Both valid points, though i wouldn't say that alone would be a reason not to implement it. theres significant risk v reward getting your marine in there, finding a free spot, getting power up, the res involved in building the obs, and the beacon cost itself, and is no more effective in a competent team than a PG. (you could beacon to base and rush through the PG if players are not nearby or hesitant to follow orders)
Plus a PG will allow your marines to get back to base to defend and/or give map control to that TP. I just don't see why you'd opt for a ninja obs over a pg unless you had no faith in your team to use it. (it's also quieter... not that aliens would have time to respond once the beacon sound went off)
Edit: Though giving it some more thought.. it'd certainly be an all-in option early game if you havn't got pg's researched
The real issue comes in strategic map positions. generally, alien teams can rush a PG outside a TP and turn it into a meat grinder, throw an obs nearby though, and it'd be much more difficult for the aliens.
E.g.
Marines have set up a pg reactor core to push into atrium hive. Aliens push them back and get on the PG. beacon goes off in reactor/glass hallway, and aliens either flee or are met by a wave of reinforcements.
OR, the aliens target the obs, and are met by a wave of marines coming in through the PG.
Also, marines will soon be able to build stuff (slower) on infestation, so finding a free spot won't be an issue anymore. And they will be able to power stuff for 30 seconds without a power node at the cost of res if they have a Robotics Factory, so the power doesn't need to be built either. The current Obs mechanics are fine and ninja PGs will become more viable/easier to pull off in the future.
Pretty sure that is the case. if your already spawning in when the beacon goes off, you'll spawn instantly at the destination. You just need to make sure you've got 5-11 IP's to make sure everyone spawns for the beacon xD
Only for the most unobservant comms/teams. I was never able to get an obs in a hive room when it was in during the beta. Also, its a nice high risk/reward scenario, since beacon pulls all of your players to the obs. You've effectively left the entire rest of the map undefended in a huge push to kill a hive. It was a great tactic in the beta that I was sad to see eliminated.
Edit: I found an example of how this was in the early beta and my favorite beacon tactic (go to 5:17):
Though, back then the GL was an attachment to the assault rifle so GL beacon rushes were more useful.
There needs to be a less retarded and hidden way to implement this. After 450 hours this is the first I hear of it.
This is a working and intended feature. It gives aliens the possibility to foil a marine push without having to engage them.