Performance, Skyrim runs smoother than NS2

baconbits · May 2013

IronHorse said:

Yea the more I think about it, the more I think there's something up with your computer and its not your hardware. You should start a new thread with your dxdiag and ns2 log to start with for further diagnosing

Windows 7 x62
AMD phenom II x3 720 2.8 - unlocked 4th core & overclocked to 3.3 ghz
sapphire's Radeon hd 5750 x2 crossfired
8g of ram

Skyrim: High graphic settings, max anisotropic and antialiasing 1024x1028, FPS avg 30-50

Outside Skyhaven temple: 1 dragon, 2-3 guards, 2 companions, over 15 enemies, at least 3 conjurors who summon additional units.
I ran this scenario twice
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00006.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00005.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8

FPS You can see the average here, spikes a bit but usually high 30'-40's even in this huge event
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/SkyrimFPS.png.html?sort=3&o=2
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/SkyrimFPS3.png.html?sort=3&o=0

Blackreach: Intense amounts of glow effects, shadowing, and water. Plus a few units.
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00001.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00002.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9

FPS, Lowest point was 19 for a split second, other wise low 40's
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/SkyrimFPS2.png.html?sort=3&o=1

NS2: Lowest possible settings, high priority .bat, texture steaming on, multicore rendering on, 1024x768 fps avg 2-24 ingame 90-120 main menu

Just me and a lerk alone biting. 11 fps
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00031.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5

Alone, outside enemy base, near craigs, alien vision. 9 fps
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00032.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Same place without vision, 11 fps
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00035.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

After round ended 23 fps
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00022.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

additional info like benchmarks for my cpu, the 4th core, and more screenshots can be found at this post
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/130155/anyone-have-performance-issues-since-build-246#latest

baconbits · May 2013

Here are the recommended system requirements for both games, Skyrim has much higher requirements but my computer still runs it just fine, can't say the same for my performance in NS2 despite lower requirements.

NS2
OS:Windows 7 32/64-bit / Vista 32/64 / XPProcessor:Core 2 Duo 3.0 ghzMemory:4 GB RAMGraphics:DirectX 9 compatible video card with 1GB, AMD 5770, NVidia GTX 450 or betterDirectX®:9.0Hard Drive:5 GB HD spaceOther Requirements:Broadband Internet connection
Skyrim

Memory: 4GB System RAM
Video Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible NVIDIA or AMD ATI video card with 1GB of RAM (Nvidia GeForce GTX 260 or higher; ATI Radeon 4890 or higher)

Something is definitely running wrong in NS2. I've been seeing complaints about NS2 from people who don't have "low budget" cpu's either. (like 4.0ghz +)

Desther · May 2013

Those images are 240x180. Can't see anything.

Evil_Ice · May 2013

You still play at 1024x768? Are you a laptop or something? (I play at 1920x1080 on my laptop =x)

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest trying to play it at a higher resolution, I don't think th game is even designed to be played that low, but I could be wrong, it might be actually causing more work on the CPU because of it, and you want as much as you can on your GPU...

DC_Darkling · May 2013

Apart that a unlocked cpu can be pretty bad.. (they usually lock cpu's with a bad core, and sell them without that core which is fine.. unless someone unlocks it), overclocking is risky. Did you truly truly benchmark it to test your overclock?

Its not waiting for GPU but the ms on the frames are ridiculously high. You should try the profile command so we can see why.

As for the logs:

Mounting mod from C:/Users/Jon/AppData/Roaming/Natural Selection 2/Workshop/m694f998_1354779850/
Mounting mod from C:/Users/Jon/AppData/Roaming/Natural Selection 2/Workshop/m49cc732_1339991095/
Mounting mod from C:/Users/Jon/AppData/Roaming/Natural Selection 2/Workshop/m4b430cc_1341172796/
Mounting mod from C:/Users/Jon/AppData/Roaming/Natural Selection 2/Workshop/m63c559c_1364143187/
Mounting mod from C:/Users/Jon/AppData/Roaming/Natural Selection 2/Workshop/m5f42a0c_1361377036/
Mounting mod from C:/Users/Jon/AppData/Roaming/Natural Selection 2/Workshop/m7e78cf7_1363505460/
Loading config://ConsoleBindings.json
Loading config://FavoriteServers.json
Main Menu Initialized at Version: 246
Steam Id: 9314538
Error: M4::WebView::OnDocumentReady: Failed to create Spark JS API. Error: 4
Error: IDirect3DDevice9::Reset to 1280x1024 failed (Device lost)
Error: IDirect3DDevice9::Reset to 1280x1024 failed (Device lost)
Error: IDirect3DDevice9::Reset to 1280x1024 failed (Device lost)
Error: IDirect3DDevice9::Reset to 1280x1024 failed (Device lost)
Error: Lua watchdog timed out (client):

Error: Direct3DDevice::Unable to get render target data
Error: Direct3DDevice::Unable to get render target data
Error: Direct3DDevice::Unable to get render target data
Error: Direct3DDevice::Unable to get render target data

Something is definately wrong in your setup or mods.
Unsubscribe all mods and delete the entire workshop folder from your windows's naturalselection2 profile.

If that fails I would definately start checking your windows setup & hardware.

shonan · May 2013

I also get that device lost on direct3d sometimes, IIRC when alt-tabbing

Evil_Ice said:

You still play at 1024x768? Are you a laptop or something? (I play at 1920x1080 on my laptop =x)

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest trying to play it at a higher resolution, I don't think th game is even designed to be played that low, but I could be wrong, it might be actually causing more work on the CPU because of it, and you want as much as you can on your GPU...

Protip: Games run better on lower resolutions, also NS2, try yourself. For me desktop resolution is "meh i can stand this", turn it lower and suddenly games smooth as butter.

baconbits · May 2013

@DC_Darkling
For Phenom II x720 http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/260393-30-unlocking-core-phenomii
unlocking the core either works or your pc won't boot. Nothing too risky about it. I've been overclocking my cpu for about a month+ now, definitely has made a difference and no symptoms to show possible hiccups. I ran the AMD benchmarking and read a few reviews on overclocking my processor, I think its safe for my build.

I'll google how to profile and test it on my next run, the ms your talking about has nothing to do with your ping then? I've ran NS2 mod-free b4 on previous builds made no difference but I'll try it again. What would be some of the windows setup or hardware items I could check?

Desther said:

Those images are 240x180. Can't see anything.

Photobucket defaults those images to an almost full screen size @ their website, not sure how you're only seeming a thumbnail.

Evil_Ice said:

You still play at 1024x768? Are you a laptop or something? (I play at 1920x1080 on my laptop =x)

I play on a 1028x1024 monitor, I lowered the resolution as one of many failed solutions to try to improve my fps.

DC_Darkling · May 2013

@baconbits

NS2 profile command:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2074238/#Comment_2074238

No, the ms means the amount of ms needed to render each frame. So a 80+ ms per frame to render is a horrid amount of time, hence your fps is so low.
Profiler will do its best to identify which part of the frame render is slowing it down that bad.

Never say never on cores. The reason they disable them is because they found some fault in that core and just turn it off, selling the cpu as a lower type. (which is fine, you pay for one core less, you get one less hehe).
They may also do the same trick if a lower cpu sells better, but there is honestly no way of knowing beforehand. Its a gamble.
Lucky if it shows with not booting, but its not always the case.
Also most cpu benchmarks are utter trash.
Do some real stresstesting with stuff like prime, running the tests for hours upon hours on end. Now thats cpu testing.

IronHorse · May 2013

Definitely want to see what profile shows..

baconbits · May 2013

Here are a few SS I took with profile before going to work

9v8 mid-late game structures and play:

One rather large spike during smooth operation for no reason, in a clear lobby
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00031-1.jpg.html

Looks like this spike is following a pattern, these are two more spikes i caught in one screen of bars. The distance between hiccups seems to occur at the same interval each time.
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00032-1.jpg.html

Once I joined the aliens & let the frames stabilize here is how it looked, the pattern with large spikes repeats with greater frequency and more smaller spikes.
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00035-1.jpg.html
at a 2nd glance I noticed there's a black glitched egg in the background.

details on the large spike.
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-09_00022-1.jpg.html

DC_Darkling · May 2013

you also have the weird profiler minus values.. hmm.
which mods are you running? I am definitely believing there is a patern here.

baconbits · May 2013

Any issues I've had continue to happen b4 and after any modding. I've cleared my mod folder and verified integrity at least once before. No changes.

Currently I'm running whatever mods various servers I've joined have forced me to download plus 1 blue custom skin for the grenade launcher. I'll edit this post with a SS of the mods when I get home.

baconbits · May 2013

My current mod list:
I just subscribed to the wolverine claw, pistol, marine and rifle skins today but I haven't played with them yet.
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00001.jpg.html

baconbits · May 2013

DC_Darkling · May 2013

Copy/paste from other topic.

the odd thing is.. my profiler works fine.

I have been wondering.. can you lot with the weird profilers test the following:
* to go your windows start menu and start command prompt.
- Alternatively go to start menu, then run option, there type cmd and you also got the prompt.
* type "ping 127.0.0.1 /t" in the command prompt and hit enter. (without the "")
* After it went on for lets say 5 or 6 goes, check if there are any minus values or values in the thousands in this screen.
* close and let me know.

* alternatively completely unsubscribe from any mod, or atleast disable them & delete the mods from your workshop folder.

Deleting all mods from your workshop folder in your windows profile is the big step in this one!
You disable them beforehand in the hopes that you minimize problem reoccuring.
Favorite your mods in workshop & then unsubscribe I would say, yo make sure you run 100% without mods.

baconbits · May 2013

No unusual numbers in the command prompt
Deleting the mods was difficult, they kept getting reinstalled somehow. After I finally got them deleted for good I booted up my own lan server.

Same error:
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00034.jpg.html

Same pattern of shitty performance & profile spikes:
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00033.jpg.html

No mods:
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00035.jpg.html

First online server with no mods got the internet connection error/bug:
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00037.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1
Console:
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00038.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Reconnected to another server, early game progression with no mods:
20fps in an empty room
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00041.jpg.html

53 fps? Very random and oddly during spawning
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00044-1.jpg.html

32-man server(only one available at that moment):
First mods I was forced to DL:
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00045-1.jpg.html

@ End of the game so performance was tested, got the same crappy results of 8-11 fps. Fresh start on mods did nothing here
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00047-1.jpg.html

Same console error:
http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Baconbits19/media/2013-05-10_00048-1.jpg.html

It doesn't appear to matter what mods, settings, or server I'm running the game on there is always a "heartbeat" like stuttering of the game every x amount of seconds. The scale and frequency of how drastic these spikes seems to somewhat correlate with how intense the game play is. Definitely during intense game play and/or late game progression spikes occur with greater intensity and more frequency. However less intense but still LARGE spikes occur at a constant rate no matter what. During early-mid game progression, sitting in the lobby (full or not), AND the lan the server I was in alone all had spikes. Environments of the game don't seem to matter. The spikes always occur, empty room/map or not. Not sure where the console error came from but it seems to happen quite often during stressful parts of the game.

DC_Darkling · May 2013

Something is still definately wrong, but I can't put my finger on it.
My guesses so far proved empty.

What does your windows event viewer say?
Im unsure if the profiler gives correct results if the % is that odd.

[AwE]Sentinel · May 2013

baconbits said:

Here are the recommended system requirements for both games, Skyrim has much higher requirements but my computer still runs it just fine, can't say the same for my performance in NS2 despite lower requirements.

NS2
OS:Windows 7 32/64-bit / Vista 32/64 / XPProcessor:Core 2 Duo 3.0 ghzMemory:4 GB RAMGraphics:DirectX 9 compatible video card with 1GB, AMD 5770, NVidia GTX 450 or betterDirectX®:9.0Hard Drive:5 GB HD spaceOther Requirements:Broadband Internet connection

Skyrim
Processor: Quad-core Intel or AMD CPU
Memory: 4GB System RAM
Video Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible NVIDIA or AMD ATI video card with 1GB of RAM (Nvidia GeForce GTX 260 or higher; ATI Radeon 4890 or higher)

Something is definitely running wrong in NS2. I've been seeing complaints about NS2 from people who don't have "low budget" cpu's either. (like 4.0ghz +)

Let's not forget that the minimum requirements for NS2 are:
Minimum:OS:Windows 7 32/64-bit / Vista 32/64 / XPProcessor:Core 2 Duo 2.6 ghzMemory:2 GB RAMGraphics:DirectX 9 compatible video card with 1GB, ATI X800, NVidia 8600 or betterDirectX®:9.0Hard Drive:5 GB HD space
I understand minimum as in "it looks like munched potatoes, but it is still running smooth and as intended by the developers". I had a NVidia 8800 and now I have a ATI 5850 combined with my old E8400 @ 3ghz. I would expect my CPU is bottlenecking the game until it crashes, but sending logs to Max revealed that my video card was running out of adressable memory (despite the fact that it meets the requirements). The game ain't even waiting for my GPU... Max said a while ago that something added to the "new" build would have been a bit too much to handle for the GPU and that this will be adressed in a new build. And yes, it gets adressed from time to time and performance get "optimized" and I can play without crashes again. But there seems to be a 2nd group in UWE who constantly adds new effects and stuff to the game that makes this problem come back over and over again. It is a while since the games was released and I think it is not enough to ask for at least a stable build. But this will never happen since the problem is always searched at the users PC and not the game. At least that is my perspective. [Skyrim runs fine on my PC with everything on max. Funny is that as I was moved up in the sky by a quest and I saw the the far landscape without fps drops and problems, I wished NS2 would be like this :P ]

DC_Darkling · May 2013

I would definitely say it is your cpu and assume that you ran out of luck on the gpu.

I assume you have 64bit?

[AwE]Sentinel · May 2013

32bit Vista.

DC_Darkling · May 2013

While I doubt it was your main problem, that may explain the memory error.
32b can only have 4GB memory in total. Thats including stuff like the vid card.

So if you have 4GB of memory + a vidcard of 1GB, that makes 5 which can not be done. So you will only have 3GB of memory.

[AwE]Sentinel · May 2013

That means I have to get for example win7 64bit to meet the requirements? But Vista 32bit and even XP are listed there...

DC_Darkling · May 2013

No. the minimum requirements add up to 3GB which is something a 32b system can handle.
But the graphics would just utterly blow.

Do you need to go for 64bit?
Depends, do you have more then 4GB if you count up your ram and vidcards memory?

[AwE]Sentinel · May 2013

Yes. 4GB ram and 1GB videocard memory. But I thought Vista is limiting only the ram to a max of 4GB and the gpu is excluded. ?) Well anyways, minimum requirements or recommended requirements...the game shouldn't crash depending on what build was released. I don't mind waiting longer for a new build as long as I don't have to fear that I can't play the game for several weeks...over and over again

DC_Darkling · May 2013

No.... 32bit means a total of 4GB. Technicly impossible to get more in a windows system.

So you will already gain improvements with a 64bit windows. (Not saying ns2 improvements, but in general)

I wonder if ns2 is behaving odly, or perhaps your vidcard due to the memory thingy however.

Morbo · May 2013

I had a similar strange problem which was driving me nuts, and here is how i fixed it, perhaps you could give these things a try and see if it helps.

First close all open programs and watch your cpu usage to make sure all cores stay at 0%.

If they stay at zero, then ignore this post, as its not the same problem.

If you have a core which is constantly above zero, run the game again, and change the cpu affinity to use all cores except for the one which is at higher usage.

If the game runs better, then you have found the problem, but now you must find out why the core is running at higher usage. For me it was due to faulty hardware causing a lot of IRQ interrupt requests which required hardware to be replaced.

baconbits · May 2013

You could be onto something, I vaguely recall seeing my cpu in task manager running above 0 without any programs on. Ill have to check tomorrow. Does anybody know if msi afterburner gives analysis on the separate cores?

Here's more info. My brother is running his game smooth as glass (no erratic spikes fps always 43+) with everything maxed except particle density on a 1680x1050 resolution. He's got an amd 6900 series card and a 3.3ghz 4 core intel and 8g of ram. With my 2 radeons and overclocked cpu our computers really aren't much different. Seems odd that he gets 30-40 more fps with almost double the resolution size and maxed graphics. That's also without my game booster or raised priority.

Rich_ · May 2013

^Bacon. It's because his 4core intel will actually feed his 6900 series gfx. You trying to run that phenom x3 on a crossfire setup is like merging a 4 lane highway into a country road, it gets clogged up.

DC_Darkling · May 2013

yup. What Rich_ said.
Also, a computer is always doing something. So it is not that odd that your cpu is above 0%

Morbo · May 2013

DC_Darkling said:

yup. What Rich_ said.
Also, a computer is always doing something. So it is not that odd that your cpu is above 0%

Actually it is odd if one core is over 0% consistently, if you read my previous post (the one you are referring to) there was something very odd going on.

Especially considering that one of the cores on his processor has been unlocked, its most definitely not something i would consider not even worth the bother of checking out.

Morbo · May 2013

baconbits said:

You could be onto something, I vaguely recall seeing my cpu in task manager running above 0 without any programs on. Ill have to check tomorrow. Does anybody know if msi afterburner gives analysis on the separate cores?

To check your cpu usage, simply press ctrl+shift+esc and click on the performance tab.

Performance, Skyrim runs smoother than NS2

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