A Masterpiece

tummy_yummytummy_yummy Join Date: 2013-05-01 Member: 185073Members, Reinforced - Gold, WC 2013 - Supporter
177 hours in and I'm yet to be disappointed by a design decision in this game.

The quality of the art+sound content, and the Spark engine itself, are amazing. The core gameplay is rock solid and the additions introduced in the many updates have invariably added to the experience. Despite the complaints I constantly hear about balance I've never actually seen a balance issue that isn't statistically blown out of the water by the skill gaps between players and the relative organisation of teams.

I always have fun in this game. EVERY SINGLE TIME. And it's not just the quality of the game, but the quality of the players and the way the game encourages interaction between players. The community in Aus is awesome and growing and I suspect it's the same elsewhere.

All boxes ticked. A Masterpiece. Don't stop being awesome, UWE.
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Comments

  • GrueneMedizinGrueneMedizin Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 175008Members
    the quality of the players

    Too bad this isn't always the case.
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    I don't even know where to start... ;)
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    Nothing is a masterpiece, there is always room to improve. :)
  • tummy_yummytummy_yummy Join Date: 2013-05-01 Member: 185073Members, Reinforced - Gold, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Masterpiece doesn't mean Perfect
    I don't even know where to start...
    You could start by agreeing that the game is a masterpiece :)
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    Nice try ;)

    But I dare you to make a map with sparks and say that again ^^ Or play it without a NASA-PC and see how much fun it is. It is a good game, but still far away from being called masterpiece. But I agree that it is fascinating. Like the Empires Mod or NS1. I really like the rts/fps-mix. But I would name different games for the title masterpiece nevertheless.
  • CataclyzmCataclyzm Join Date: 2005-01-06 Member: 33031Members
    Wow, I think I caught a breathe of fresh air... it's hard to keep a positive note on these forums. I appreciate it, tummy_yummy.
  • FrustrationFrustration Join Date: 2013-01-19 Member: 180628Members
    Well it seems someone hasn´t died 15 times in a row in most games because the team did not concede.

    Masterpiece....pftt

    (Good game though, but what you are describing is a magical world)
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    I agree mostly with him though.
    Yes the game has problems, but all things considered they did a fine job and are still doing so.
  • shonanshonan Join Date: 2013-01-28 Member: 182562Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    the quality of the players

    Too bad this isn't always the case.
    As expected in any game outside of strictly enforced games.

  • ijustpwnedu96ijustpwnedu96 Join Date: 2013-01-27 Member: 182320Members
    So far so good. I really hope they can continue their hard efforts on optimizing NS2 for better framerates and or weaker computers.
  • Blarney_StoneBlarney_Stone Join Date: 2013-03-08 Member: 183808Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    The quality of the players... sadly, it is far from perfect. The competitive scene is filled with a bunch of really cool people but on pubs you often run into some pretty arrogant people
  • OnosFactoryOnosFactory New Zealand Join Date: 2008-07-16 Member: 64637Members
    I think Oceania should be happy with it's achievements, solid Beta effort with a massive % of the worlds typical Beta players, E's servers and them going to Monash again holding up half a world. The release weekend was well handled, plenty of advice dispensed, although I think the late free weekend had a bit too much anti-green sentiment.

    Probably a little over competitive, but that is sport for you in the antipodes.
  • FlipperFlipper Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155120Members
    So limited tech trees, (still) buggy hitreg, interp etc, a flavour of the month strategy system, and lingering performance and optimization issues don't detract from 'masterpiece'?

    Don't get me wrong the game is fun but its no masterpiece. The fanboy is strong in this one.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited May 2013
    @flipper if you can show me concrete video proof of any current hitreg problems, (net_stats on) you'll not only be the only one in the community that can do this, but you'll get your name in the change log, a forum cookie, and a "super agree" to that post...

    Until then, I call shenanigans, good sir!

    Also, nice post OP.
    Breath of fresh air, like someone else said around here. :-)
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    NS2 is pretty much the only decent multiplayer game to have come out since 2007.
  • FlipperFlipper Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155120Members
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @flipper if you can show me concrete video proof of any current hitreg problems, (net_stats on) you'll not only be the only one in the community that can do this, but you'll get your name in the change log, a forum cookie, and a "super agree" to that post...

    Until then, I call shenanigans, good sir!

    Also, nice post OP.
    Breath of fresh air, like someone else said around here. :-)

    I think we've all experienced green blood and no damage numbers; and by the strictest definition, that is a hitreg issue. The strictest mind you. But your point is also moot as any hitreg issue could be blamed on latency with net stats on, so it would need to be a lan video on a perfectly stable server with perfectly stable fps to be 100 percent confirmed hit reg bug. Which is why your point is impossible to prove and we must go on feelings alone.

    The hitreg may be as good as it will get but the hitboxes could be better, and the shooting could be tighter, but I'm the first to state that perfection is easily visualized and difficult to acheive.

    Also, which I'm sure you know, ping has a large impact on hitreg, especially in a client side system, which is unavoidable but I'm sure could be made better.
    ;)
  • ResRes Join Date: 2003-08-27 Member: 20245Members
    edited May 2013
    Flipper wrote: »
    I think we've all experienced green blood and no damage numbers; and by the strictest definition, that is a hitreg issue.

    I haven't. If you are experiencing this and it happens just before you or whatever you're shooting at dies, then it is most likey lag compensation/interp related.

    If it was a true hitreg issue, it would most likely happen during other events as well.

    As Ironhorse said, provide at least some proof, even if it's of the latter event.

    .....hitboxes could be better, and the shooting could be tighter, but I'm the first to state that perfection is easily visualized and difficult to acheive.

    Have you actually seen the hitbox picture of the skulks in NS2? The hitboxes are pretty much perfectly wrapped around the skulk model. It's not like NS1 where the hitboxes had to be done in blocks on the model.

    The times people have tried to prove there was a hitreg issue have actually turned out to be wrong because when their video was ran in slow motion, their bullets would sometimes go inbetween the skulks legs as the skulk was running.

    You can argue that because the bullet size is so small for events like that to happen that it gives the feeling of hit registration issues.

    In Sewlek's balance mod, I believe, bullet size is increased and some have reported a better "feeling" as you so put it.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Flipper wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @flipper if you can show me concrete video proof of any current hitreg problems, (net_stats on) you'll not only be the only one in the community that can do this, but you'll get your name in the change log, a forum cookie, and a "super agree" to that post...

    Until then, I call shenanigans, good sir!

    Also, nice post OP.
    Breath of fresh air, like someone else said around here. :-)

    I think we've all experienced green blood and no damage numbers; and by the strictest definition, that is a hitreg issue. The strictest mind you. But your point is also moot as any hitreg issue could be blamed on latency with net stats on, so it would need to be a lan video on a perfectly stable server with perfectly stable fps to be 100 percent confirmed hit reg bug. Which is why your point is impossible to prove and we must go on feelings alone.

    The hitreg may be as good as it will get but the hitboxes could be better, and the shooting could be tighter, but I'm the first to state that perfection is easily visualized and difficult to acheive.

    Also, which I'm sure you know, ping has a large impact on hitreg, especially in a client side system, which is unavoidable but I'm sure could be made better.
    ;)
    The biggest issue is that if we can't get reliable repro steps (which means a video/log/really really good written description) its hard to fix any particular hitreg issue. Its not that UWE is ignoring hitreg problems, but that there isn't much they can do if they don't get reliable info. It also doesn't help that hitreg has become a general purpose reason behind any lag/aiming issues.
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    The biggest issue is that if we can't get reliable repro steps (which means a video/log/really really good written description) its hard to fix any particular hitreg issue. Its not that UWE is ignoring hitreg problems, but that there isn't much they can do if they don't get reliable info. It also doesn't help that hitreg has become a general purpose reason behind any lag/aiming issues.

    The problem is that reading IronHorse's post it makes it look like there are no hitreg issues left, when it's just that there are no good repro steps, because I still see blood-but-no-numbers quite a bit with wallwalking skulks a lot of the time.
  • RobotixRobotix Join Date: 2013-02-20 Member: 183222Members
    Mendasp wrote: »
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    The biggest issue is that if we can't get reliable repro steps (which means a video/log/really really good written description) its hard to fix any particular hitreg issue. Its not that UWE is ignoring hitreg problems, but that there isn't much they can do if they don't get reliable info. It also doesn't help that hitreg has become a general purpose reason behind any lag/aiming issues.

    The problem is that reading IronHorse's post it makes it look like there are no hitreg issues left, when it's just that there are no good repro steps, because I still see blood-but-no-numbers quite a bit with wallwalking skulks a lot of the time.

    I experience blood-but-no-numbers all the time, and it seems like 95% of it is from the pistol.
  • MelancorMelancor Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24415Members
    edited May 2013
    I always have fun in this game. EVERY SINGLE TIME
    It's a philosophical question... we see what we want to see: A glass half full of fun, or a glass half empty of human and technical imperfections.

    The real masterpiece would be pulling off the NS2 product without going bankrupt along the way. I don't think it would have been possible if Charlie was a pessimist.

    I don't see much room in this topic for "hitreg", because I know how difficult it is to realize mplay online in real-time, and I have yet to see an engine without such (minor) issues. For people complaining about inaccuracies I have only one advice: go play LAN.
  • godriflegodrifle Join Date: 2006-12-01 Member: 58815Members
    I'd give NS2 a "9.3", it's a masterpiece, and it deserves high marks, but it does have a lot of faults at the moment.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Robotix wrote: »
    Mendasp wrote: »
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    The biggest issue is that if we can't get reliable repro steps (which means a video/log/really really good written description) its hard to fix any particular hitreg issue. Its not that UWE is ignoring hitreg problems, but that there isn't much they can do if they don't get reliable info. It also doesn't help that hitreg has become a general purpose reason behind any lag/aiming issues.

    The problem is that reading IronHorse's post it makes it look like there are no hitreg issues left, when it's just that there are no good repro steps, because I still see blood-but-no-numbers quite a bit with wallwalking skulks a lot of the time.

    I experience blood-but-no-numbers all the time, and it seems like 95% of it is from the pistol.
    Then grab some video footage of it. OBS and MSI Afterburner are both free programs that can be used to do so.
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    It is a masterpiece.
    Just open your eyes, an incredible load of work has been achieved.
    For years, enthoutiasm, vision, doubts, deceptions, fun, anger, will ... I wish I were a part of such an adventure.
  • fmponefmpone Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
    The developers worked very hard, so it's no mystery why the game is so good. Blood sweat and tears !
  • Rellik_ptRellik_pt Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181205Members
    Robotix wrote: »
    Mendasp wrote: »
    ScardyBob wrote: »
    The biggest issue is that if we can't get reliable repro steps (which means a video/log/really really good written description) its hard to fix any particular hitreg issue. Its not that UWE is ignoring hitreg problems, but that there isn't much they can do if they don't get reliable info. It also doesn't help that hitreg has become a general purpose reason behind any lag/aiming issues.

    The problem is that reading IronHorse's post it makes it look like there are no hitreg issues left, when it's just that there are no good repro steps, because I still see blood-but-no-numbers quite a bit with wallwalking skulks a lot of the time.

    I experience blood-but-no-numbers all the time, and it seems like 95% of it is from the pistol.

    you not the only one but seems they only believe with video proof...

  • FarewelltoarmsFarewelltoarms gainesville fl Join Date: 2013-03-03 Member: 183603Members
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    NS2 is pretty much the only decent multiplayer game to have come out since 2007.

    What is Red Orchestra 2, for $3 in the humble bundle.

    NS2 is good, and has the potential to be great, but balance issues need to be sorted out. When Starcraft first came out it was a mess, but eventually after Brood War, several patches, and years in time passage, it became the king of the genre.

  • bizbiz Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167386Members
    a lot of the older idtech games (or fighting games / racing games) are probably the closest we'll get to "masterpiece" (eg. quake 3 )

    they did few things, but they did them flawlessly and that's what matters for multiplayer

    NS2 will never be balanced for a wide range of skill levels, even if they magically fix all the issues

    RTS will never be a masterpiece as long is it relies on giving orders to units controlled by a dumbass AI

    multiplayer TBS can be perfect, but they haven't many good ones (chess doesn't count. white is OP)
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