Simple Map Proposal
Above is a simple map proposal. It consists of four rooms at each corner and a central room; linked by curved corridors to prevent marines from sniping aliens from across the map. The central room has 4 corridors leading to it to make it is easier to attack since it is a very desirable place to house a base due its 2 res nodes. I think it would be nice to see a simple map like this created for NS2 to witness whether such simple and symmetrical topology works well in the game; entirely dissimilar to the complex and assymetric maps we usually see.
Unfortunately, although I have done mapping in the past (although not for NS2), I no longer have time to devote to such projects. This is a bit of a cheeky thread since I cannot do it myself, but I am not asking that someone create the above map, although it would be nice, but to create a simple map like the one above. I suppose I have provided little incentive for someone to do so aside from sharing my curiosity.
What do you guys think about such a simple design?
Comments
I personally don't mind 'cheeky' proposal threads but you'll probably do yourself some favours if you spent more than ten minutes thinking about it. The idea's not bad just undeveloped and presenting an MS paint job that probably would've taken you 30 seconds; really doesn't sell it to me. While you don't have time to map, we all have time to apply some time and thought. You probably have the time to play natural selection, so next time you're in game study how the official maps are put together. Then next time you're on the bus or toilet do some sketching of your ideas, refine and develop.
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not being hostile towards this. I think every player should be thinking about level design but if you want to create a serious discussion about design, you need to put some serious thought (and a little effort) into it.
The image is to demonstrate topological simplicity, it's not a detailed blueprint for a map. The fact that you find the basic idea "alright" is satisfactory as that is all I sought from the image.
Indeed, NS2 maps normally have around 9, but this is done purposely. The map wouldn't be particularly large in comparison to the official NS2 maps, thus there will be more frequent engagements with the enemy. Due to this, the gameplay will be very fast-paced, perhaps quite suicidal. To slow it down a little there are less RTs in order to force the teams to be more conservative with their res. If this doesn't work then you could put 1 RT on each north and south corridor, bringing it up to 8 res nodes.
Well the purpose of the design is to centralise the action. The central room has 4 entrances to make it easier to attack. Vents, which would help balance the map, haven't been included in the image because, like I mentioned, I'm focusing on topology.
This is the entire purpose of the design: simplicity and symmetry. I asked in my OP whether such a map would work in NS2. I will even quote myself for you to save you time from actually reading my post: "I think it would be nice to see a simple map like this created for NS2 to witness whether such simple and symmetrical topology works well in the game; entirely dissimilar to the complex and assymetric maps we usually see."
I spent more than 10 minutes, but what kind of favours should I expect?
Actually I did it in Photoshop.
Unnecessary continued personal abuse.
Well it certainly comes across that way, and this is typical behaviour from someone who has developed a "regular" status in a particular forum. I can assure you that such behaviour won't promote creativity and will only deter people from sharing their thoughts.
I believe if the warpaths to each base were laden with enough cover, and slight differences in elevation and support for vents to inhibit choke points from being OP, something like this could succeed.
and I would suggest 2-4 Rts points at the N,S,E,W on the "Inner part of the eye" of the map with a possible removal of the 2nd Rt at central,
just my thoughts, would like to see something like this in NS2
Given that his second paragraph was almost entirely constructed of personal abuse it's difficult not to respond the way I did. As someone who thoroughly enjoys strategy games like SC2 and C&C Generals where symmetry is required by norm, I find it odd, just as IAIN has mentioned above, that we don't see such maps in NS2. I don't mind if no one makes the map that I conceptualised above, I'm just proposing that the mappers here explore simple and symmetric maps. If you make one that works well you could start an entirely new trend of NS2 maps.
And are you kidding me? Only 6 rts?
Have you even played NS2 to know that each team holding 1-3 rts simply will not work?
Draktok - we'd be happy to help you analyze some ideas for your own map, but the layout for this one is a bit too premature to start grayboxing. Maybe come up with some revised ideas and we can help guide you?
ns2guy, the famed idea man gets nothing done. If you have time to come up with a map concept and come post it on the forums, you likely have enough time to spend a few hours mapping each week. Howser was not trying to attack you but help you with the map creation process, which is very complex. Most classic style maps will take the better part of 2 years to finalize. Before coming up with a layout heavy analysis of current maps and what works and what doesn't is required. Based on a small qty of research this map layout needs a lot of work before it is functional and balanced.
Personal preference doesn't make an idea terrible, I'm not kidding you, you counted correctly, and yes I have played NS2, and you can read my fuller response to this in the third post of this thread.
I don't mind. The above concept was just a demonstration of a simple and symmetric map. Go crazy on simple and symmetric map ideas - that's the purpose of this thread.
I'm gonna go get some food i'll be back in like 45 to read a more fleshed out idea / or continue discussion OP
Unfortunately that's not the case. I may have time today to sit here and post about this, but that's not to say that I will have time tomorrow, or next week, or next month. I travel a lot so I don't have much time to spend making maps, but I appreciate the work people put into them. You even mentioned that it can take 2 years to finalise, which would certainly mean that I have no time to complete such a project. But anyway, I think that fundamental discussion of this thread is being overlooked. It's not to create the map I drew above, it's to discuss and promote the creation of simple and symmetric maps. Mine was simply an example - some may like it some may not. By no means is it a complete design for a map, I was just demonstrating a simple, symmetric topology.
I agree entirely that map development is a long process, perhaps not 2 years; it depends on how much time you have on your hands, but repeating "you didn't think" isn't constructive, it's simply abusive.
Regarding the theme; there's nothing stopping a mapper from making, say, one of those 5 rooms in my initial map drawing from being a cave. It's the layout that must be symmetrical and simple, not what's in it.
Funnily enough, the asymmetry and the complexity of NS2 maps are somewhat as they are to ensure a certain flow all around the map and reduce the effectiveness of turtling. One also has to recognize the asymmetry between the teams, especially in the way they expand around the map.
There needs to be a direct relation between what the game is and what a map is. Maps can be different from the official maps, but they have to acknowledge what the game is in the first place. I think NS2 custom mappers have a hard time with that already, and they learn through trial and error and iterations. Before you can't start having an impact on other mappers, making proposals that inspire others, you need to know enough about NS2 mapping already. This is a nice diagram, with its simple relations, very geometric stuff, but this diagram doesn't really shout out NS2 in your face. It could be a diagram for any RTS.
There is a lot you can do with an NS2 map. And a simple diagram is the place to start but its only the beginning. Thanks for your proposal, but don't expect wonders out of it. If you really want to prove your point, be the example yourself. If its not worth you making time for it, there is your first example right there on how you feel this is important. Everybody has priorities
I was trying to encourage you to attempt to build the map yourself or at least develop your ideas further. such a basic layout for someone with mapping experience should only take a day or two to get up and running in some basic gray boxed build. Sparks simple and easy to learn and everyone on the forums is super helpful. As for the lack of time; we all have to limited free time, posting in-depth responses to my heavy-handed, knee-jerk post probably isn't the best way to spend yours, you could be mapping.
Moreover, In my experience if someone has dedicated enough time and thought to an idea, they usually have the belief and motivation to try and execute it themselves.
It hasn't been tried so it may be very fun. A lot of what you're saying is very theoretical, we have yet to see how it works in practice.
Indeed, the teams are asymmetric, especially in how they expand, but that does not necessarily mean that the maps must be asymmetric too. Again, it's difficult to tell what the gameplay will be like without experiencing it.
But I'm not proving a point, I'm simply throwing out the idea that perhaps the NS2 mappers should consider making simple, symmetric maps so we can see whether they play well. The result would be more maps developed for NS2 because simple and symmetric maps are easier to conjure up that the complex, asymmetric maps we see today. If it works it could inspire a "revolution" (not to be too exaggerated) in NS2 mapping, perhaps even giving birth to new custom game modes if an idea is inspired by the gameplay of those maps.
Real Time Bull S...
@map idea, create it so we can see it in action
Symmetry is nice for balance, but doesn't necessarily play well.
EDIT
d'oh, i clicked the link. Forgive me
jk, but I do like the idea, actually.