Co_Lvl14

bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
edited May 2013 in Mapping
Hi everyone,

Ive been working on a combat map, just learning the editor a bit and getting in touch again with the NS community.

This is a very small, fast paced combat map. Im posting a layout view from the editor and another with the paths. Id like some feedback about it if possible. Basically there are 3 big areas, each team's spawns and the central zone, which is didived into 2 with a big access between them. The rest is medium-to-small corridors for good close combat.

ns2_co_Orion_alpha_1.jpg

ns2_co_Orion_alpha_1paths.jpg


i think ill have a playable version in a few days, still have to learn how to send things to the workshop!

jc

Comments

  • PandademicPandademic Join Date: 2013-02-26 Member: 183359Members
    Learning the editor on a combat map is probably a really good idea.

    I like that instead of corridors you're using small rooms with central obstructions, so much more interesting to play in. I'd suggest doing the same for that top-left corridor.
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    Hey there blueman, great work on ulysses - I hope you enjoy learning the Spark editor!

    I'll definitely check this out once you have a testable version published on the workshop (ask if you aren't sure how). I do like the layout and how the hallways feel like small rooms. My initial concern is for scale - right now I'd consider faceoff to be the smallest size you want, but then again not much has been published that is smaller. I'd be interested to see how it plays.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    Updated first post with actual layout, made some additions to the small corridors connecting the bases and central point.

    this are WIP screenshots so dont expect awesomeness

    just to give an idea of the areas and so that i can have a development blog-type here.

    Marine Base
    ns2_co_Orion_alpha_3.jpg

    Stairs & lava
    ns2_co_Orion_alpha_4.jpg

    Stairs & lava2
    ns2_co_Orion_alpha_5.jpg

    Skyroom (central area2)
    ns2_co_Orion_alpha_6.jpg

    Alien base left access
    ns2_co_Orion_alpha_7.jpg

    Alien base right access
    ns2_co_Orion_alpha_10.jpg

    Alien Base1
    ns2_co_Orion_alpha_8.jpg

    Alien Base2
    ns2_co_Orion_alpha_9.jpg

    Although i hope most of the combat will take place in the central point area, i imagine the access to the bases will also be a nice-tight combat area if needed. Im still not sure of the vents so there are none till this point. Hope some feedback can help me with this. I dont want to do vents into the marine base but not sure to put both in each marine base access areas.
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Haihai! We played the map on the Fail Masters - UK server a few hours ago. Started as a 1 vs. 1, grew into a bigger game. I gorged most of it and had a lot of fun defending the hive until the rest of the alien team went to play in the middle and an exo with GL support killed the hive from its east exit.

    Here's a few notes I made:

    o There's no minimap yet. Ouch. ;)
    o There's a pit next to the command station. Looks like it'd be difficult for marines, gorges and oni to get out of that.
    o You can crouch underneath many of the stair props. Don't think that's intended.
    o The shadows in the lava room are a little overwhelming. :>
    o I was worried the far side of the west exit of alien start would be underutilized as the near side is shorter, but after making this note marines and aliens alike started going the long way around more.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    Hey!! Thanks for the feedback!!! That was quick!

    I placed the overview in a folder inside /maps/ named /overviews/ i thought it worked. Ive used the "make a mod" tutorial. Ill look to fix it.


    About the rest, ill fix the bugs and im thinking of removing the lava pit and making the area bigger, maybe even two access points to the same area so its easier to move the battle point to that area.


    Thanks!!!
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    blueman, just a friendly reminder that your minimap_extents needs to be square. If you're using the one click map testing you just need to copy from the ns2/maps/overviews to your mod folder (still maps/overviews). Ask here if you're having any trouble.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    ok, ill make sure of that.

    another question, is there a way to place invisible collision. Ive seen it (or think i have) in some of the maps but i dont find an entity or anything similar.
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    You need to make a group called CollisionGeometry and assign the geometry to it.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    edited April 2013
    Hi,

    made some changes on the layout, heres the new one.


    Sin_t_tulo_4.jpg

    Im also adding one with the navigation flow and some ideas for vents.
    red: normal navigation
    orange: vents 80% sure
    violet: vents 20% sure


    Sin_t_tulo_4layout.jpg

    what do you think?
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    edited April 2013
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    Just took a look at this and I have a few small notes:
    -lava - tiling is too small; lower the death trigger closer to lava
    -marine side north console - are you going to block off the center of that or do you want that as a skulk hiding spot?
    -crate/pipe room on alien side south - marines can jump on pipe easily, if I use flow chart it doesn't seem intentional
    -Marine start - that weird lower area next to the stairs, is this just a marine trap? They seriously can't jump out, and it looks awkward
    -Stairs - as mentioned previously block from going underneath
    -Layout - why not connect the very north end of central with the alien-side computer room right next to it? it almost looks like you thought about it...
    -Vents - all yellow, plus only the pink vent in alien base; IMO aliens need be able to get out of their hive easily if pinned

    I really like the layout - I can't wait to see it detailed!
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    Hey, thx for the feedback!

    -lava - Erased, the area now is bigger and has 2 access points to the central area. No falling, collision geometry added.
    -marine side north console - Intentional if it doesnt give any navigation problems. Marines can see through so they have more shooting range, aliens can hide there so it helps both.
    -crate/pipe room on alien side south - Intentional, but if aliens place defences thee, its easy to take down marines. After some playtest i might block it if it doesnt work.
    -Marine start - Blocked, non-existant anymore. Now there is a wall and a smaller access.
    -Stairs - Blocked.
    -Layout - You knew i though about it. Still, i want to give both teams same access route numbers. Maybe in the future i can add it.
    -Vents - I agree, while any vent cant see directly into the command station / Hive i think it can work. However, i think its a really easy walk for skulks/etc... to get out the hive, i wonder if that will overpower aliens to much into central area...
  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    Played a round of this on GG last night (thank Korn & team GG). Below is how it went:

    First 5 minutes: Marines dominated! Camped outside hive with some crazy K:D ratios.
    Next 5 minutes: Everything turned around as aliens started affording life forms.
    Last 15 minutes of the game: marines unable to leave spawn (despite cheating and having 6+ dual exo on one team!). Game ended when marines tried a suicide hive run (we did get the hive, but 5 seconds after aliens killed cc)

    My thoughts on why:
    One of the major differences in combat map balance from NS1 is lerk spike - this changes things around and gives aliens a strong advantage when defending open areas. Open areas give marines early advantage yes, but in combat balance changes due to the proliferation of lifeforms by mid-game.

    In addition combat balance is poor in my opinion: renewable alien lifeforms is much stronger than a renewable shotgun. Not to mention just how overpowered fades are. Somehow this was accentuated by the map.

    Some things that were mentioned (not sure I agree with them): areas too wide & open, ceilings so high giving fades an advantage. Just trying to give some early game play feedback.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    Hi,

    Im working on a new version of the map, finally added the second pathway from hive north access to central point. I will post the map later with the changelog, but i have some problems.

    Ive placed some big props outside some windows, on top of the map, but they show on the minimap anyways although theyre not included in it. Is there a way so that they dont show up in the minimap?

    Also, some knows the exact minimum measures for the vent sizes? im going to add them now.

    Thx.
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Set the Commander Alpha value on the prop to 0 and it won't be seen by the commander and won't be rendered on the minimap. The same works for geometry by creating a group called CommanderInvisible and assigning the geometry to it.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    when is the playtesting starting in scc?
  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Things should start in about 50 minutes from now. :)
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    new version published

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=140576142

    [img][/img]LAYOUTORION.jpg

    [img][/img]LAYOUTORION_PATHS.jpg

    Changelog:
    - Added vents
    - Added art for testing
    - central area east made bigger
    - added new path from left hive access to left central point
    -Access between left and right central points made smaller
  • HowserHowser UK Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Sorry for not getting round to testing it. There seems to be some issues with this map and steam workshop atm. We did try to get it to work, but these things happen. Ask oblivious, flat or any of the other admins to try arrange a game during the week. Workshop has given us trouble in the past, its a shame but we'll have plenty of time to test it in the future.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    No worries mate, thx for having such a great time yesterday testing new maps, i really enjoyed it.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    some wip images, been working very slowly this past 2 weeks

    2013_05_05_00001.jpg

    2013_05_05_00004.jpg

    2013_05_05_00002.jpg

    2013_05_05_00003.jpg

    2013_05_05_00005.jpg

    Layout
    2013_05_05_00007.jpg


  • DarkSeraphDarkSeraph Join Date: 2004-06-07 Member: 29174Members
    Blueman, the latest update looks great. I don't think I'll be able to make today's playtest seesions, but I might try to convince Korn+[GG] to test it out again during the week.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    Hi, just changed the maps name due to multiple errors between older versions of the map. New steam id now:

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=143501898

    If someone can test it in a server just to find out if it works correctly that'll be awesome.

    Thx!!!
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    edited May 2013
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