Why Is It Possible For Aliens To Get 2 Hives
Question
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9180Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9180Members
<div class="IPBDescription">In under 10 mins?</div> 1 gorg,goes out,builds a few RTs,saves up for hive,it goes up,he secures 1st and 2nd hive all the while the skulks are hopefully delaying the marines.
Fades.
Marines with lmg and no upgrades
Team 2 has won the game! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fades.
Marines with lmg and no upgrades
Team 2 has won the game! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I know I can do it and Im not a good comm
I know I can do it and Im not a good comm<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Auto help system.Persuading newbies to join marines.
I KNOW i can do that.I KNOW that you can do that.I KNOW that a lot of comms out there can do that......
Question is,CAN YOUR MARINES DO IT?
Hey marines are poewrful get a lmg and if u have a good aim that fade is down in 2 sec, so lets not complain, plus the first hive is mostly left undefended, and the second one with hella def, so really they can just go for the first hive and cut them off. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Fades.
Marines with lmg and no upgrades
Team 2 has won the game! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, that's how it works. The team which holds two hives wins, cuz fades are end game firepower and marines just don't have the kind of firepower they need to take them down until they get some nice equipment.
Technically the marines are supposed to attack the Aliens and make them regret going straight for the hive rather than building up a few offencive chambers. However, if the aliens are good at skulking, they can successfully drop any ability the marines have at mounting an effective offencive early in the game. Then again, if the marines are good at covering themselves, they can minimize the effect skulking has.
Hey marines are poewrful get a lmg and if u have a good aim that fade is down in 2 sec, so lets not complain, plus the first hive is mostly left undefended, and the second one with hella def, so really they can just go for the first hive and cut them off. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um wrong.
Instead of the fade dropping in 2 seconds it will be YOU who drops in 2 seconds.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=18263' target='_blank'>Click me now</a>
It would prolong these short games somewhat, I think. Those lovely hour-long or longer games only happen now if the commander is REALLY inexperienced or he deliberately draws the game out. That, or the aliens stall and toy with the marines.
On pubs, marines are crippled by disorginization, so the aliens get to do whatever they want, and thus they generally use the quickest possible route to a second hive. If marines were left alone to do whatever they want the way aliens are, they'd have two hives locked down just as quickly while the aliens wallow in their internal squabbles. It's a matter of players (not individuals, but as groups. I'm not saying you suck. I'm saying your team sucks, at least as a team.), not game balance.
In the same time, Marines can have at least lvl 1 weps and armor. They can also get HMGs in less than 5 minutes if the comm so desires.
In addition, 2 hives don't mean jack. If the aliens go for 2 hives right away, that usually gives you another 3 or 4 minutes before they have the res for fades and movement chambers. By then, you should be poised for attack. Giving the aliens what they want for positioning is like giving a wolf a sheep in hopes it won't ask for more.
If you keep little scrimmages with the aliens over positioning, and you have competant marines as well as they have competant aliens, your respawn speed will beat them out. And that is when you must move.
For 80 resources, hives should be a little bit more resistant to rambo JP freaks...
People come to think of Predator, Alien, or any other random Hollywood-movie featuring aliens vs. humans. In all of those movies (except Species, perhaps) the aliens are hunting the poor marines/scientists/rednecks all the time, scaring the crap out of them. This is the way it's supposed to be, the standard NS-newb believes, and therefore they camp in their base, trembling in fear of what the horrible aliens might do if they move an inch.
At the same time, aliens get inspired by all these sci-fi's to sneak around, ambush or just do a frontal assault of the poor, scared marines.
In other words, marines have to play more aggressively if they want to stand a chance against all aliens creeping about the corridors of their space ship. And Ripley was a camping llamah.
For 80 resources, hives should be a little bit more resistant to rambo JP freaks...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats what Im thinking. Ppl complain about the Khaara doing stuff too fast when I see Marines doing things just as fast. Ive seen Marines with HMG's within a few minutes of the game starting.
This wouldnt be just another example of the resource bug(too many resources too soon) many ppl seem to be expierencing as of late would it?
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if your team lets that happen then theyre severely retarded and wouldnt know what to do with two hives anyways so that point is moot.
I think the main problem is fades are too heavily armored right off the bat. can they be killed? yeah.. once marines have upgrades they have a fighting chance.. but lets face it. if you dont have heavy armor you dont stand much of a chance vs a fade alone.. especially if that fade plays smart and just does hit and run tactics. If you do have heavy armor you wont be able to chase down a fade hightailing it out of there. and if god forbid that fade has a gorge healing him or defense chamber? nothing short of an ICBM will take that fade out so long as hes not rushing in like a moron. The fact is this game strives to be balanced at two hives. and if two hives took awhile longer to get I think the game might succeed in that. but unless the aliens are damned slow, or the commander goes for upgrades right off the bat (almost assuredly sacrificing locking down ANY hives which still means death) fades will appear before marines have anything to counter with.
I think there has to be a middle ground between skulk,lerks / and fades. perhaps a new unit comporable in health, speed. and attack range to a default marine. or at the very least make turrets cheaper which would allow for more strategic use of turrets early on in the game to deter skulks more effectively without having to tie up most of your team to do it.
right now fades have an armor, speed, and attack strength advantage over both starting marines and mid game marines. Until that changes this game will always force marines to grab 2 hives within the first 10-15 minutes of the game or at least slow them down long enough to get comparable upgrades to deal with fades.
Actually, I had an extremely competent team, we had reamed the marines good and hard with only one hive, I'd built some heavy defenses around the hive. But you wanna know what? He just JP'ed past them, got health spammed and jumped on top of the hive where nothing could get him. He did this four successive times before we oblitterated the marines base, but by then they were using an exploit to build outside the map. Of course, this is just one incident, I've seen it happen many times before.
Also, what RTS game allows Zero resource units to take down 44 resource units? You need numbers to take down fades, a Fade alone versus a Marine alone, the fade should always win. Why? Becuase he spent the res, he had his vulnerable time. If you can take him down, sucks be to him, if he takes you down, sucks be to you. 3 HA/HMG/GL/Welder Marines are equal to a death sentance for a lone fade. He can harass them, but he wont be able to kill them. They can setup a turret farm in no time and siege the hive easily, unless they are rushed, in which case the fades still deserve to win.
I'd like to see an RTS game have 0 resource units defeating 44 resource units, that would be truly funny...
Now youll probably counter with "yeah but marines keep em when they die and kharaans dont!" negative.. you keep armor and weapon upgrades... but you still have to spend quite a bit for an hmg and power armor again. kharaan dies he has to spend money to evolve and a whopping 4 rps to get his upgrades back. and again a smart fade shouldnt be in a position to die anyways. theyre way faster (especially when blink is taken into account) dont have a ridiculously long hmg reload time (especially when movement is built). have tons of armor or alternately self heal or can spring back to the hives before death and heal depending on the upgrade of your choice. The life expectancy of a half decent fade player is enough so that by the time you die you SHOULD have enough rps to reevolve again. Not an option for a busy marine commander wholl probably be spending the rps on more expensive turrets to defend a hive... or whatever upgrades havent been researched, or health/ammo packs for marines (which in the average game probably ammounts to about the cost of at least 3 or 4 hmgs)
and in 1.04 most marine buildings will be even more expensive, and key marine structures will be easier to take out... fun.
so very true.
spot on as play on pub alot
It seems to me that im always put down in 2 secs by fade acid as they fall back. Everyone seems to run away from fades when really you got to shove the gun up to their face.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you dont have heavy armor you dont stand much of a chance vs a fade alone.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your point being? Really, you´re not supposed to stand much of a chance alone...don´t blame the mod for your squadmates running away when they see a fade.
On another note, shop around for a better server to play on. I had similar experiences before but finally found a 20-player server where the results are more or less 50% alien, 50% marine. The mod is not unbalanced on the right servers, believe me.
For 80 resources, hives should be a little bit more resistant to rambo JP freaks...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your skulks were not doing their job + They had a vet who knew how to JP weld a hive.
Btw you didnt get the hive up fast enough.Ive seen fades within 10 minutes of the game start without donation exploit.
No way in hell a HA/HMG marine is going t be able to CHASE a fade down.NO WAY.How is he going to prevent the fade from healing??!!!Casting timestop so that he can leisury knife the fade?!
The marines need MORE TIME to get the res so that when fade comes,it is NOT game over.Dont give me the BS about numbers,7 fades OWN 7 lmg marines ANY DAY.If the fades lose they are incompetent idiots and the point is moot.
Btw gorgs dont need to build defence at RTs,just put one down,build finish,move on.No marines are going to knife EVERY RTs outside your hive,unlike the marines where if they dont put turrets down a skulk is GUARANTEED to eat the RT.Try putting 4 RTs outside your marine base,with no defence,and see how long they last against a competent alien team.The no defence RTs are one reason why they get res so fast.
Ok lets say that after i build finish 3 more rts,that equals 4 rts.Thus i would get maybe 5 RTs per tick.A tick is like 10 seconds?So in less than 3 minutes you have the 2nd hive building.Then just spam OCs and def chambers at the 2nd hive,then build them at the first hive,then build the mov chambers,then either marines die or aliens torture them so that they can get onos,then marines die.
Probelm could be solved either by increasing hive cost,or making the hive take longer to build.
Btw a "wall of lame" kinda stops any marine effort to destroy that outpost/hive.You all start shooting at the wall of lame,you all start reloading,skulks come by and bite you,you dont get a chance to do anything......
You either need GLs,massive amounts of HMGs or seiges to take down wall of lames.
I dont see how its balanced. It only shows that marines are still too strong early game. If the teams are equal an skill then out of 10 scrims between the 2 teams it should be 50 50 on which race wins. Having marines win both times only testifies to the marine early game advantage.
You either need GLs,massive amounts of HMGs or seiges to take down wall of lames.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you let the aliens have enough time to make a wall of lame you wernt fast enough. Wall of lames are a direct result of the marines not keeping control. You should never have a game lasting that long. Marines can easily end every game within 5 minutes.
In the current state of NS (v1.03), if aliens get a 2nd hive up, for any amount of time, the marine team was a bunch of **obscenity** newbies. Marines > Aliens to the **obscenity** EXTREME in 1.03.