Your pet peeves in commanding pub games?
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Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members
We've all got certain problems with it, such as people not listening etc.
But my no.1 pet peeve is when people are constantly saying, "can we get celerity? can we get spores? can we get..can we get..?" over and over again.
When I watch some of Virsoul's comm games I like the whole strategy thing. But it's so difficult to strategise when you have 10 people saying different things at the same time and asking for x, y and z.
For example, maybe you get the second hive up and you decide you want to get leap before getting that shift and adren/cel upgrade. Going leap first might delay the latter by around 30 seconds, and then you get lots of people saying to get x, y and z.
On the marine side it seems like you can never go arms lab first without most of the team crying about it. Sometimes I get guys going, "WHERE IS THE FU..ING OBS?!". I had to mute that guy right away. Then you get the people crying, "GET SHOTGUNS". Then you get people saying, "WHY NO UPGRADES COMM?" After you have gone PGs and shotguns first, and they've died too soon because they cannot take many hits (in effect validating what you wanted earlier in faster upgrades).
Interestingly, in a video Hugh said it is always the Comm's fault. Is it really? A simple thought experiment can defeat this argument: command a team of children and you'll probably lose - so, was it the comm's fault? The converse, a child comming a marine team in which the marines still win despite the inadequacies (most likely) of the comm. Did they win because of the comm? I think then that perhaps he might have been establishing a general rule (though if so, saying "always" doesn't help).
Just a simple aside, that paragraph: So, what are your pet peeves when you command a public game?
But my no.1 pet peeve is when people are constantly saying, "can we get celerity? can we get spores? can we get..can we get..?" over and over again.
When I watch some of Virsoul's comm games I like the whole strategy thing. But it's so difficult to strategise when you have 10 people saying different things at the same time and asking for x, y and z.
For example, maybe you get the second hive up and you decide you want to get leap before getting that shift and adren/cel upgrade. Going leap first might delay the latter by around 30 seconds, and then you get lots of people saying to get x, y and z.
On the marine side it seems like you can never go arms lab first without most of the team crying about it. Sometimes I get guys going, "WHERE IS THE FU..ING OBS?!". I had to mute that guy right away. Then you get the people crying, "GET SHOTGUNS". Then you get people saying, "WHY NO UPGRADES COMM?" After you have gone PGs and shotguns first, and they've died too soon because they cannot take many hits (in effect validating what you wanted earlier in faster upgrades).
Interestingly, in a video Hugh said it is always the Comm's fault. Is it really? A simple thought experiment can defeat this argument: command a team of children and you'll probably lose - so, was it the comm's fault? The converse, a child comming a marine team in which the marines still win despite the inadequacies (most likely) of the comm. Did they win because of the comm? I think then that perhaps he might have been establishing a general rule (though if so, saying "always" doesn't help).
Just a simple aside, that paragraph: So, what are your pet peeves when you command a public game?
Comments
- Where is phase tech comm?
- Where is celerity comm?
- Do you want an armory here comm? (every room in the god damn map)
- Drop the chair in the 2nd tech point comm, I'll build everything! (2 minutes into the game)
- Get eggs comm? What do you mean you didn't go shift, how can you not go shift!
- Comm why don't we have an arc train, exos and w3/a3 yet?
- Do we have exos yet comm?
- Can you get exos comm?
- Why don't we have upgrades comm? (as alien)
- Med/Ammo/Order request spam to be a dick.
- Comm lost us the game because <x>! (where x is generally, no 1 minute phase gates or shift hive)
If I think of more I'll add them, I'm sure I will.
EDIT:
- People being unable to aim properly but expecting 10 med support/complaining that we're losing. (there's some correlation between this and blaming the commander for some reason)
- People unable to play any alien life form and complaining when we're losing. (there's some correlation between this and blaming the commander for some reason)
"I'm going to call beacon, everyone rush X. " I might as well have called bacon for all the good it did.
I've been lucky with people not blaming me as a com... so far :P
"I only need one person to build in base"
"I need you 2 in 'x' to head to 'y' "
"Stop spamming requests...I told you I'm not building there"
"They're rushing base.. phase through"
And then when you call them out for not following orders they respond with something daft.
"I was going for their harvester/upgrades/ninja pg"
"I wanted my shotgun back"
-.-
It's very difficult to experiment with strategies when you know half your team is going to ignore you.
As for players requesting various things..it doesn't bother me, and sometimes i appreciate the reminder. I just quickly explain why we're not getting it yet.
I think the answer is twofold. At first: There will always be idiots. But thankfully in NS2 they are a minority. If you let the idiots drag you down or if you start arguing with them, you disappoint the other players, that wanted to have a nice game. Because you waste your time at those idiots instead of medpacking / thinking about your tactic / and so on.
Keep this in mind when you command. This said, I have no problems with people asking for stuff. It tells me what my troops want and so I can plan it into my tactic. Remember, you play with your team, not alone. Commanders that only follow their own tactic (e.g. skipping some techs forever even when asked) are terrible and bad for the moral of the team.
You don't need to jump when your team calls for it. But how you describe it, I could imagine you don't talk much to your team. If someone asks me for Blink, I tell them what I want to do first end when they can expect their wish to be fulfilled. Explaining why you do what also helps players to understand the tactic and they can time better when to go what lifeform. (If Blink needs to wait for another 3 minutes, he don't need to go Fade asap, he can attack 2 RTs as Skulk in the meantime.)
You see, talking with your team and informing them is the key to a friendly relationship between com and other players. There are bad coms. There are bad players. And there are idiots. Just try to be one of the good guys and don't let the others get you down.
I have been comming more and more. I try to strike a balance between what I think is the best strategy, and what the team tells me they want and/or need. It's maddening when people don't do anything you ask them - they just want to get some frags and don't really care about the teamwork aspect of NS2 - but even these guys can sometimes be manipulated into helping out. For example, say the Rambo is heading to sub on veil all the time, but is going through overlook, and you need some more firepower in system waypointing; sometimes you can just ping the map there and say '3 skulks incoming system.' I've found that occasionally works - the rambo hears it and thinks 'yay enemies to kill in system waypointing' and will head into there. If these guys are reasonable shots, they can really help out the team in the way that, if they cared about the team, they would do ordinarily!
Probably the most frustrating thing as commander is when your team are bad shots/skulks. There's very little you can do, sometimes absolutely nothing you can do. Upgrades would help, but they can't hold res nodes so you can't afford them. Getting out to shoot would help, but none of them wants to command (the only reason you capitulated and went commander that round anyway...).
I've had a few rounds like this, where the only option other than waiting for 10 minutes for concede (or milling around waiting for aliens to realise it's over and they just need to rush the base), is to convince people to allow you to recycle, or convince people to F4. Stacked teams are probably the single worst thing in public play right now.
I actually talk quite a lot (more as marine comm). But what I mean is: if you watch a Virsoul stream you don't hear the constant nagging and distractions. This is for obvious reasons but what is somewhat grating is that arms lab before pg is what is normally most effective - not always, but normally. It's why comp teams do that. On servers with higher numbers, it's even easier for marines if they go arms lab before pg. You try to convey that to your team and due to the ignorance of most (probably 80%) they think pg first is the be all and end all. This is what actually prompted me to create a thread suggesting "veteran" servers.
Now the problem is that if you DO go arms lab first, and they lose, they blame you. If you go pg first, if you fail maybe you don't get blamed, but often they'll still find a way.
Now as you say, you need to work with the team. I tend therefore to go against my best guesses and do what they say. And that's where the "WHERE ARE THE UPGRADES COMM?!" part of my peeve comes in. Well, how could I get you armour 1 and weapons 1 if you lost 5 extractors and made me place 4 pgs?
It's easy to say, "Well Best just be patient and explain to them...". That's not fun to do 4/5 times you play comm. It's probably why Virsoul said on his stream, "I almost never comm pub games - you feel helpless".
@ Roobubba
Having bad shots is frustrating but I don't really mind it too much. It's when they start saying, "WE COULDNT WIN COS YOU DIDNT GET X,Y,Z". Well how could I if you can't hold an extractor?
and in general, when i'm com and ppl start crying i always tell them, they can have the job if they know so much better how to do it. that either shuts them up or leads to a flaming outburst which results in a mute (but only on very rare occasions).
and that's my bottom line: lead, follow or get out of the way!
means: be com yourself, let the com decide or get lost.
If you explain in a few seconds what you're trying to do, people will much more readily follow suit. If you remain silent, people will assume the worst and constantly question you. Even if you end up losing the game, when you've been pretty active on the mic, people will understand they just got outplayed, and refrain from blaming the comm. There will always be some people who are never satisfied, but overall I find that players are much more forgiving to a comm who has let his voice be heard.
Having said that, stop asking me for every single upgrade. You can't have bile, spores, leap and blink at thesame time, especially not when the second hive is still growing.
This is very true, I rarely have any problems persuading people that we're going to do arms lab first and phase tech later on, but I've seen less vocal comms getting absolutely slammed for this because they don't communicate well what their plans are.
I rarely khamm these days though - for both teams, I much prefer being on the field, but I can marine comm and many can't - there are plenty more people willing to khamm, I find.
For marines you could just add what tech is currently being researched as well. Sometimes I will be holding out in the next tech point wondering how long I should stay there. I can see the tres... but if I could see that PG tech is 75% done then I don't have to ask and I know that I am staying there.
1st minute in the game as crag hive is evolving "Can you get us celerity?"
"We're egg locked!!!" Told you busturds to not die since we went crag.
"Where the heck is leap!" (only 1 hive)
I always feel that skulks shouldn't be trying to go toe to toe with the marines and should instead focus on hit and run tactics meant to damage the Marine economy. Killing extractors is way more important than killing marines. Celerity and well placed shifts make this easier. Also, egg locking can be a big problem in pubs.
As for what bugs me when I am commanding... People ignoring you when you ask them to go somewhere. It's so nice when you have a team with solid map awareness, you hardly have to do anything except get upgrades. I don't much mind all the requests for stuff. I always tell the team what I am doing and why though, so it's rarely an issue.
Clicking ~5 times to try and get a RT to drop
Having to click 3-4 times to try and select something like a drifter
For some reason, sometimes after selecting a drifter or mac, then bringing up the map, then clicking on the map to bring my view somewhere else, my view will sometimes automatically be brought back to the drifter/mac for no apparent reason. This happens about ~3 times before it stops doing it for no apparent reason.
I don't really have any pet peeves with the people I'm commanding, unless it is some idiot who thinks they know better and manage to get people to eject, which has only happened once in all the time I've been commanding.
I don't drop med packs either. Marines shouldn't need them. I'm there to command them, not baby them.
This x10. Save for 8 Onos. Great idea.
These i would eject you for lol. You have 2 mins max for an obs and meds are a must in areas you want held without pg support.
But I guess that's the risk of being commander. Everyone thinks they can do the job better than you, but in the end if your team loses you're the one who gets all the blame.
also all the bugs and UI quirks are annoying
I sometimes like when random fools start complaining about missing techs, because my reply is always that we can't afford it.
This is a much more effective way of encouraging bad players to go get resource towers because it makes them think it's their own brilliant idea instead of having some comm telling them what to do.
When
Note: suggestions great. Just don't try to run the show if you're not in the chair/hive.