ARCs better or worse than ns1 siege turrets?
deathshroud
Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members
Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members
im leaning towards the siege turrets of ns1 as being a better implementation. My reasoning is that the marines had to control the area they wanted to siege from in ns1. however in ns2 they only need to control an area close to the siege area and with enough arcs they can make a push and hold it for the time it takes to drop the hive. i much prefer the build up of siege turrets as opposed to the movement of arcs. Instead arcs could act as some mobile turret platform.
Bring back siege turrets.
Bring back siege turrets.
Comments
The early versions of the NS1 siege cannon did infact hurt players aswell, but atleast the latest version doesn't have that feature anymore. Sieges are a big enough death sentence even without the splash damage.
How can this be true when the NS1 siege cannons could be recycled and took considerably less time to build than the ones in NS2 (depending on the players of course).
marines being required to deploy and undeploy is a good idea though.
Also, HMG/HA/JP in NS1?
Could not find any advanced NS1 stuff on youtube.
Then consider that sieging a hive in NS1 required not only that a robotics factory equivalent be present in the area, but that it be upgraded to support siege cannons as well.
In my opinion, too much preparation can be done "off site" in NS2. The first alert that the hive is being sieged should not be its death.
I meant in the sense that once you had them built, you couldn't just simply "recall" them if you didn't think your marines could protect them. Losing the forward base meant losing all the resources you put in researching and building the cannons. Or indeed just not being able to build them off-site while your marines prepare the area, like strofix pointed out.
This is what's bugging me aswell. While the aliens are certainly at a fault for not scouting properly, you often don't get any early warning that your hive is about to be sieged. And once you're being sieged, in most cases it's already way too late. You can't outheal ARCs, or atleast I've never seen it done.
I've seen some competitive play where the commander would use ARCs to push a hive while simultaneously using the rest of the team to push another. While I like this aspect in a tactical sense, it is a terrible mechanic when a commander can essentially double the size of his team with AI units. Sieging should be a team effort, requiring both the commander and the marines on the ground to pull off. Isn't that whole idea of the game? An RTS where the units on the ground are people - not machines.
Line of sight fire only.
No more killing hives through walls.
That'd make them pretty useless.
Alien comm (though boring) is a good example of letting the FPS take over the RTS element. A bad alien comm, as long as they research everything and not buy millions of whips early game, cant be bad. There are some minor decisions to be made like where to spread infestation and whether to re-drop RTs but not much.
I'm getting a bit off topic... just a bit. All in all i wish the old siege mechanic was back and it was more about defending the forward position. Less RTS and more FPS is always a good thing imo.
If this happens
then yes, you had a bad khamm.
Yes, if you don't know that a completely silent, completely autonomous conga line of ARCs is moving to one of potentially many locations you control, you must be bad.
That would make the gameplay even worse by mirroring the problem aliens have with ARCs now. One slight mistake and a gorge throwing 5 bile bombs into your ARCs would destroy all of them. On the other hand, one slight oversight and 5 ARCs destroy your hive in under 10 seconds. No fun either way.
ARCs need more health and less damage. Aliens should need a coordinated and concerted effort to destroy them, and marines should need a coordinated and concerted effort to last through an entire sieging of a hive. There should be no quick fixes here.
Even though it doesn't change time for deployment, but aliens will at least know that arc train is coming. Plus parasite will get at least some usefulness.
What do you think?
If you don't know a conga line capable of destroying a hive with no marines guarding them is en route to a hive, then you failed miserably with your drifters.
I think their health and damage output are fine, but I think there should be a cap on the number of arcs (per robotics factory, tech point or just a hard cap). You should never need more than 4 arcs and they only really become overpowered when you've got 8-10 on the field as you can't take them down fast enough.
You can't display your knowledge of the marine team's intentions and expect them to return to base and leave the ARCs behind for you to destroy. You actually have to have the capabilities necessary to destroy the threat.
What this typically entails is at least 2 gorges, but you will typically need more, as well as the necessary life forms to protect them. This requires those payers to either already be gorge, or be in a position to instantly evolve to gorge, with mist used of course. They also need to instantly relocate to the threatened location. All defending life forms must also be able to drop everything they are doing and immediately return to defend.
Keeping in mind that 5 ARCs will destroy a hive in about 15 seconds... ye, like I said, people are confused.
"There's no excuse for not seeing that coming." goes for a lot of things. The concept of denying an upgrade hasn't quite fired yet though.
If they're pushing almost their whole team in with these arcs, force a beacon.
If they've only brought a few marines out to defend them, you should have no issue killing them (preferably on-route)
If they've set up a forward base with a pg & armory, your in trouble and you need to rally your entire team to bring it down
a push on 2 sides, one with arc's and the other marines is trickier to deal with, and you need to see it coming as early as possible to split your team up accordingly.
Yes. Obviously if your team can't eliminate them because there's no lifeforms to do so and no one evolves (even free ones a comm may drop), or through a lack of coordination by the team to respond to the threat, Despite seeing them coming, you got outplayed.
It's only an issue when you can't take the arc's down fast enough (too many, slightly spread out) and a cap on the number of arcs would stop this...however, the marines should never have the res to pump out so many, if they do, it's probably been "gg" for a while.
Outplayed by what? Non player controlled units? A commander's single click? Should one person have the power to single handedly and almost instantly destroy a primary structure? And if so, where is the aliens response? Are you going to tell me that, for the sake of asymmetry, the marines are able to essentially nuke an entire room instantaneously, while the aliens cannot?
Ok, the structures remain but they're completely useless (CC excluded).
Your also overusing the word instantly. it's not instant or even 'almost instantly' unless your talking about large numbers of arcs (and if they've had that much res to waste on arcs, you lost already). Don't forget crags help. 3 crags can almost outheal 2 arcs entirely (maybe they can with heal spray?).