Recycling extractors

EucomolhamasEucomolhamas Join Date: 2013-03-10 Member: 183841Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Howdy folks! So, straight to the question: Do you recycle extractors under attack if no marine is gonna get there in time, and why do you?

This must be troubling some commanders since some people say recycle, some say don't. I personally think that if the extractor is built and has power it's better not to recycle it, but that of course is how I like to do it.

My view on the matter is:

1) If you don't recycle, the extractor will keep getting you resources until it is destroyed (obviously), and keeping it is more beneficial than getting the small amount of res from recycling. This is good since some aliens want to play it safe and can take a long time in biting it.
2) Keeping the extractor will also slow the aliens down a little, keeping them from munching something else.
3) Chances are that even though it would seem nobody's coming, someone might pop in to save the extractor just in time.

What do you think about it? Discuss!

Comments

  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Your intuitions are 100% correct.
  • MrPinkMrPink Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
    I don't really recycle anymore unless the power is cut and the extractor is still sitting there, and we're not getting back there any time soon
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Faking a recycle is also fun, some alien players tend to move on when they hear the recycle sound :P
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Faking a recycle is also fun, some alien players tend to move on when they hear the recycle sound :P

    Man, I can't even hear the recycle sound so I end up chewing until it disappears in front of me. :(
  • randomroperandomrope Join Date: 2013-01-16 Member: 180026Members
    1) If you don't recycle, the extractor will keep getting you resources until it is destroyed (obviously), and keeping it is more beneficial than getting the small amount of res from recycling. This is good since some aliens want to play it safe and can take a long time in biting it.
    2) Keeping the extractor will also slow the aliens down a little, keeping them from munching something else.
    3) Chances are that even though it would seem nobody's coming, someone might pop in to save the extractor just in time.

    What do you think about it? Discuss!

    I think this comes down to the decision of two different mind sets A.) Militaristic or B.) Economist.

    A.) If you are more concerned about the conflict tactics then your reasoning would lead you to leave the extractor. This is because you know it is being hit by "x"amount of skulks, allowing you to know their location and estimated time commitment (which you can communication to your team).

    B.) If you are more concerned about the res flow and overall economy of your commanding then your reasoning could lead you to recycle the extractor depending on the number of extractors you hold and the current total tres. Recycling an extractor results in receiving +8 tres (if I remember right, I could be wrong). That results in a net loss of only 2 tres (after building the new extractor) which is not detrimental.

    I think recycling an extractor is completely situational and either decision can be the smarter choice. And I don't think your #3 is 100% accurate. As commander you know the location of all your marines and you can determine whether or not an extractor can be saved.

  • VittuLimaVittuLima Join Date: 2012-12-25 Member: 176227Members
    I might be wrong but i think any structure even extractor recycling gives back res based on how much hp it has left so if extractor is almost dead it gives back only 1 res etc so u don't win anything even economically by recycling it.
  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    Squishpoke wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Faking a recycle is also fun, some alien players tend to move on when they hear the recycle sound :P

    Man, I can't even hear the recycle sound so I end up chewing until it disappears in front of me. :(

    I even chew 5 minutes more to make sure it's gone
  • xen32xen32 Join Date: 2012-10-18 Member: 162676Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Recycling an extractor results in receiving +8 tres (if I remember right, I could be wrong). That results in a net loss of only 2 tres (after building the new extractor) which is not detrimental.
    It's actually Price*0,75*HP%. If someone is humping your extractor, it's better to let them finish it, becase... well... OP is 100% correct.
  • irEricirEric Join Date: 2012-11-20 Member: 172615Members
    Yes it's based on health. I've heard that letting it die results in better res income. Let's do the math:

    3500 hp 500 armor. 4500 effective health.
    Bite: 75 dmg, 2.2 attacks/sec. 165 dps. 27.27s to destroy with one skulk.

    27s gives you 5 ticks, 5 res. (if 1res per 5 seconds). So you'd have to recycle at a structure health yielding 5 or more res. works out to 66% health or more at the time of completed recycling. Recycling takes about 2 seconds so you'd have to recycle well before 66% health. (if res rate is slower then lower % health is acceptable)

    At most you can save is 1-2 res from recycling early. Even if you lost res letting it die i would still allow it, considering the time it takes to destroy one and what you can accomplish in that time.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited March 2013
    I've thought about it a lot, and under no circumstances is it worth recycling.

    If it's one skulk, it will be of more value pumping out as much res as it can while taking up the skulks time for half a minute or so, it will probably end up giving about the same res as it would have given back if it had been recycled, with that added bonus of time wasting.

    If it's two skulks, same thing applies, except you get slightly less res pumped out of it, but at the same time, if you HAD sold it, it would have sold at lower hp anyway so you'd have got a smaller return regardless.

    If it's three or more skulks, it PROBABLY won't even sell and instead get destroyed, I'd prefer to get 1-2 res (depending on when the res ticks occur) out of it than sell it for 0 (which happens when it gets to about 10% hp left) or having it destroyed.

    Most importantly it wastes skulks time, recycling is basically saying, ok skulk, you win this round, go kill another one.

    EDIT: I should add that if WHILE recycling an extractor, it still pumped res, this MAY be a different story (maybe). But it doesn't, so...
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Interesting insights, didn't realize it's not really worth it. I'll stick with the fake recycle more now :)
  • randomroperandomrope Join Date: 2013-01-16 Member: 180026Members
    Yeah, I guess I was inaccurate. I figured that by the time you recycle and have a marine build the new RT that you would have maintained more tres than you would have by letting it die and loose all tres for the structure.
  • KhazeKhaze Join Date: 2006-12-12 Member: 59031Members
    The thing to consider is also that while losing an extractor will set your team resources back by 10, it will keep producing personal resources for your team until the very end, which they will of course keep. In essence, you're trading team resources for personal resources by not recycling. Whether or not it's cost efficient is another story.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    ^Very true point, along side getting back about the same res whether it pumps, or you recycle (like I stated earlier), if it pumps everyone gets pres.
  • ezekelezekel Join Date: 2012-11-29 Member: 173589Members, NS2 Map Tester
    I never recycle anything unless we've moved a phase gate further up, or it's some other type of structure dying in a room w/out power
  • mclawlsmclawls Join Date: 2013-03-02 Member: 183556Members
    Oh come on guys put on your thinking caps there are times when it's apt to recycle an extractor.

    What if the power is taken out in a room that your team isn't going to recapture.

    What if your team extended too far and just built that extractor only to get wiped (say early game, before phase gates), if you can get the recycle off as your last marine is dying or similar before the skulk pack tears it down, it's more than worth it, it can get you another extractor up where you weren't dropping because of lack of res.

    There are definitely situations to recycle, but I wouldn't ever recycle if it's low (or a pack is already on it and it's going down very fast), or if it's relatively close to a marine responding, or just a single skulk is bothering it.
  • EucomolhamasEucomolhamas Join Date: 2013-03-10 Member: 183841Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    @mclawls You're exactly right, as I said in the starting post I wouldn't recycle it IF the power was on and the extractor built. But I do recycle if it isn't built or has no power and I'm atleast 50% sure that marines won't be there to save it.
  • Apreche2Apreche2 Join Date: 2012-08-06 Member: 154849Members
    Sometimes I recycle. Sometimes I don't. After reading this thread, I will never recycle again. Added benefit, never have to worry about recycling again!

    Here's a question. Is it economically worthwhile to nanoshield the extractor? Obviously if that means marines with welders rescue it in time, it's probably worth it. But let's assume it won't be rescued.
  • ShinoShino Join Date: 2012-11-26 Member: 173316Members
    For nanoshield to be economically advantageous, it needs to keep the RT alive for 5 extra ticks. At 1 res / 6 seconds, that means the nanoshield needs to keep the RT alive for 30 seconds.

    If you know 100% that the marine can shoot the skulk off the RT, then yeah sure- nano the RT. In most cases though, it won't be anything except annoying for the skulk.
  • OnosFactoryOnosFactory New Zealand Join Date: 2008-07-16 Member: 64637Members
    When people Nano *anything*, I think "Yay, I'm attacking an even more valuable object" ... even a 0 res marine is now an investment (in Tres even!).
  • CiroCiro Join Date: 2013-01-09 Member: 178392Members
    When people Nano *anything*, I think "Yay, I'm attacking an even more valuable object" ... even a 0 res marine is now an investment (in Tres even!).

    As a Comm, I think "Yay, my Marines are 1 second away from killing that little M.F.'er!". Stopping Aliens, from achieving small goals, keeps them from comfortably expanding, imo.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    mclawls wrote: »
    Oh come on guys put on your thinking caps there are times when it's apt to recycle an extractor.

    What if the power is taken out in a room that your team isn't going to recapture.

    What if your team extended too far and just built that extractor only to get wiped (say early game, before phase gates), if you can get the recycle off as your last marine is dying or similar before the skulk pack tears it down, it's more than worth it, it can get you another extractor up where you weren't dropping because of lack of res.

    There are definitely situations to recycle, but I wouldn't ever recycle if it's low (or a pack is already on it and it's going down very fast), or if it's relatively close to a marine responding, or just a single skulk is bothering it.

    Ok, yeah, I forgot to add that, if the extractor is unpowered OR unbuilt, go ahead and recycle. But I can't think of any other situations right now where recycling is profitable.
  • Rich_Rich_ Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167152Members
    depends . might give you that extra 5 res for a new node elsewhere that marines are controlling. That extra res can also go to things like phase gates etc.
  • CrazyEddieCrazyEddie Join Date: 2013-01-08 Member: 178196Members
    Rich_ wrote: »
    might give you that extra 5 res for a new node elsewhere that marines are controlling.
    If you don't need the res urgently, there's probably no reason to recycle it.

    If you do need the res urgently, you've probably failed to maintain an adequate reserve to use in urgent circumstances.

  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Daxx wrote: »
    Interesting insights, didn't realize it's not really worth it. I'll stick with the fake recycle more now :)
    You do realize everyone who uses that troll tactic from now on has to pay me 1 internetz per usage :P
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I've definitely posted about fake recycles in the past Kouji, expect a letter from my lawyers :P

    (and I probably wasn't the first either!)
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    mclawls wrote: »
    Oh come on guys put on your thinking caps there are times when it's apt to recycle an extractor.

    What if the power is taken out in a room that your team isn't going to recapture.

    What if your team extended too far and just built that extractor only to get wiped (say early game, before phase gates), if you can get the recycle off as your last marine is dying or similar before the skulk pack tears it down, it's more than worth it, it can get you another extractor up where you weren't dropping because of lack of res.

    There are definitely situations to recycle, but I wouldn't ever recycle if it's low (or a pack is already on it and it's going down very fast), or if it's relatively close to a marine responding, or just a single skulk is bothering it.
    True, but its typically not worth the attention spent figuring out if its a good situation to recycle in most cases. The best option is to just never recycle and spend your time doing other comm micro tasks (e.g. medpacking, scans, etc).
  • DaxxDaxx Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Daxx wrote: »
    Interesting insights, didn't realize it's not really worth it. I'll stick with the fake recycle more now :)
    You do realize everyone who uses that troll tactic from now on has to pay me 1 internetz per usage :P

    Add it to my tab :))
  • GoldenGolden Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31169Members, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    Shino wrote: »
    For nanoshield to be economically advantageous, it needs to keep the RT alive for 5 extra ticks. At 1 res / 6 seconds, that means the nanoshield needs to keep the RT alive for 30 seconds.

    If you know 100% that the marine can shoot the skulk off the RT, then yeah sure- nano the RT. In most cases though, it won't be anything except annoying for the skulk.

    And you do it to me all the time : /
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