More than 2 marine weapons? :O
Samus1111111
Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154930Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154930Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Ok, not complaining, but tbh, I'm gonna have to say that there are serious problems with the marine weaponry...
Been watching the competitive matches recently and when you never see and FT/GL and only see SG in the late game I have to ask myself why that is. Why are these "utility" weapons not used by competitive players?
I have to say that it is because of the ridiculously crazy killing ability of the SG. IMHO, from what I've seen, the SG is a no brainer since you can pretty much 1 or 2 shot all alien life-forms making the alien team virtually useless in combat. Specifically when paired with JPs, SGs really shine with how crazy they are.
Any thoughts on why we don't see GL/FT in competitive matches (or even most pub matches for that matter)?
Been watching the competitive matches recently and when you never see and FT/GL and only see SG in the late game I have to ask myself why that is. Why are these "utility" weapons not used by competitive players?
I have to say that it is because of the ridiculously crazy killing ability of the SG. IMHO, from what I've seen, the SG is a no brainer since you can pretty much 1 or 2 shot all alien life-forms making the alien team virtually useless in combat. Specifically when paired with JPs, SGs really shine with how crazy they are.
Any thoughts on why we don't see GL/FT in competitive matches (or even most pub matches for that matter)?
Comments
With Focus they could do something against JP/SG as it is.
That again means it would be harder for marines to get into aliens bases and rape.
Plus, Alien bases are empty all the time, hydras don't do anything, no one uses Gorge tunnels or shifts in comp play (why?) so you don't need to wait in front of a base and spam grenades. Just run/fly in and kill the RT, no need for more.
Somehow NS2 lost its epic battles where you need FL to get rid of all the fades and GLs to get in that base aliens won't let go.
Gorge tunnels are too expensive.
Shifts are only really used for energy regeneration. Players in 6v6 tend to be more careful and thus die less often than in larger games, therefore the egg spawn ability isn't necessary.
Well most of the alien losses is due to egg lock or just being too slow at those RTs that get killed...
FT absolutely destroys in well-organized pub matches. But, I've personally stopped using it because I'm tired of flying in with 5 people behind me, dying, and then realizing that those 5 people flew back to some backwater extractor to kill one skulk. 8-}
About the only thing that feels like it's missing is a way for marines to instantly kill an aliens structure using pres
Sachel Charges would be damn good although a risky alternative to ARCs
Flamethrowers kill 1 cyst per tap of the fire button, as long as said cyst actually gets hit, they reduce(or prevent, I can't remember which) alien energy regen while they're on fire(Gorge heal puts flames out), and are generally pretty bad, unless you're either leading the way, or following behind everyone.
The main problem is that it's a pretty big investment (25pres + 25tres). On top of that, you have to catch the aliens off guard with it- if they see it, drop a single whip at your hive and it's completely ineffective.
They stopped using them.
And an often overlooked part is the burning of Umbra and Spores
Either way:
FTs are pretty bad.
They do a lot of things, but don't do any of them well, except kill cysts.
Boy do they kill cysts.
Also:
Welders = Cyst killing without having to crouch.
competitive games are way more coordinated, and ruthless.
you would think that, wouldn't you. but top tier teams have great map awareness and it would take a screw-up of pretty large proportions to allow a single marine to sneak in and snipe something behind the engagement lines. this is compounded by easy scouting (scans and drifters), and wheel-spoke map layouts. and if you fail, well, you just threw away 25 p-res because there's no way you're going to be able to re-acquire the gl behind enemy lines.
I could have sworn I remember reading about a plan to make the flamethrower disable buildings. Whips and Hydras would thrash around and generally do nothing until the fire was out. Was this ever added? Was there a reason it would have been removed? Maybe it was just a suggestion I read.
I'm inclined to say that they are far less coordinated... in a sense.
The reason I think these two weapons rarely make an appearance is because they aren't specifically designed for killing players. They are intended to fill the traditional "strategy" role in this FPS/RTS hybrid. That is, they kill bases. They kill structures. Not strictly structures, but you get my meaning. They are for those situations where its not skill that is important, its the "counter" that you need.
From what I have seen, competitive games are almost entirely devoid of the traditional "strategy" gameplay. There are no bases, no outposts, no structures, save one or two every now and then. All marine res goes into upgrades and getting marines to the front line faster. All alien res goes into fade eggs.
On the whole, in comparison to NS1, NS2 is pretty light on the RTS side, but competitive games take it to a whole new level.
For the record I do it with a default loadout, not so much as a welder or jetpack even if they are researched. I'm suicide rushing RTs. I was really attacking the point about 6v6 being more "pvp oriented" rather than the GL/FT argument itself.
Yes, but now there is only 5 people left to defend against a big attack. Or 4 people in a crucial push somewhere else. With less players, you have to take into consideration that you may be losing tempo or map control. Attacking RTs is a valid tactic, but must be considered with the whole picture. It's a bit more complicated than "oh, there's less players, that means we are free to attack all the buildings!"
In a bigger game, gaps in tempo matter less, because there's usually always another player to pick up the slack. Competitive 6v6 does not have this luxury.
And if you do that, someone will respond. Else, they'll pressure hard because you're out of position. It's much easier to organize a team of 6 consistent players than it is to organize a 9 player team of randoms.
Except that if they respond it will probably take 2 skulks or 1 higher lifeform to do so appropriately, which now means the aliens are down to 3 for their push or 4 for their defense. That or they let the harvester go. I know nothing about competitive of course, I'm just thinking out loud here.
I can only speak of ENSL gathers, of which I've played quite a few now and love them. They're not anywhere near comp level play, I'm told, but they are definitely a world apart from public servers. The level of coordination, teamwork and strategy is incomparable with pub play. You should try them out, they're a fantastic opportunity to play with decent players who communicate and coordinate very well.
It will then become quite rapidly clear why GLs and FLs aren't used often in 6v6 play, and your queries about RT harassment/defense will be answered, too
FT is good as it is i think, but the idea of crags, shades and shifts not performing their function while on flame could be interesting.
[Also, sometimes i think 20 pres for shotty is too much, 15 would fit, but im not sure]
GL is kind of pointless late in the game.Lvl 3 rifles are much more effective and you can still shoot skulks etc.
Only good usage is detering skulks of other marines.Spamming basically.Mostly you are fucked if you go alone with that.