Long wind up melee attack are a lot more satisfying than spam attacks.

KnightLautrec · March 2013

Hey guys, first post here. Today I want to talk about melee mechanics for both marines and xenos as I find very bland. I recently bought NS2 but I played NS1 back in the day. Coming from many different type games I tried many type of melee combat gameplay and I noticed that longer well timed attacks are a lot more satisfying to perform than fast and spammable attacks. Unfortunatly it is the later that we get in NS2.

Im not talking about attacks that would instantly kill players, but instead longer less spammables attack that are more effective.

For exemple, imagine someone swinging a baseball bat, he wont simply hack repeably in the air hoping to hit the ball, he will patiently wait for it to come closer then swiftly hit it with all his force. I believe it should be the same in NS2. Less about jumping all over the place hoping to bite that bunny hopping marine but instead using timing for a decisive 1-2 effective bites. Same goes for the marines. I believe the axe should be a more effective ''stop you in your tracks'' than happy slashing. Think about that baseball bat again. now imagine its an axe and the ball is the xenos jumping at your face, with good timing a skilled marine could stop that skulk from biting his face off. Of course that wouldn't instantly kill that skulk, but it could give some breathing room for the marine.

Anyway, long story short, spam is bad, well timed effective attacks are good.

current1y · March 2013

Wind up attacks are good for slow moving targets when you yourself have enough HP to stay alive for more then a few seconds. I'm not sure NS2 fits that description.

KnightLautrec · March 2013

Hmmm not if you can wind up your attack while moving. I see skulks winding up their attack wihtout any penalty to their movement speed while a marine winding up his axe swing could only walk.

turtsmcgurt · March 2013

I personally enjoy lower damage, but faster attack speed attacks because it rewards whoever has the better aim. I'd primarily use the rifle over the shotgun if it wasn't for how armor works in this game. I forgot the game and I can't be bothered to search, but it rewarded you for tracking the target. You had a lightning gun styled weapon that gained damage every so many ticks you accurately, and consecutively tracked the target.

KnightLautrec · March 2013

Talking about melee attack here my good sir, not rifle, not shotgun...

Zek · March 2013

I think from a general game design perspective, long wind-up times after a button press are generally a bad thing. They weaken the visceral link you feel between pressing the button and hitting the enemy. Even if it's something like holding down the button to charge, it doesn't feel as good to swing by letting go as it does to swing by clicking.

ScardyBob · March 2013

I'm not sure which melee-combat games you play, but "low ROF, high damage" melee weapons don't work as well in games with the type of melee vs ranged combat that makes up the core of NS1/2. Gameplay is so fast paced and erratic that precision melee strikes mechanics are hard to do well (NS1 had focus, but it was mostly only useful for fades because it allowed you to one-hit kill marines).

turtsmcgurt · March 2013

KnightLautrec wrote: »

Talking about melee attack here my good sir, not rifle, not shotgun...

Still relevant, though.

Wheeee · March 2013

we used to have one called stab for the fade. it was pretty fun, but hard to use. ultimately it fell by the wayside. it was pretty OP tbh.

Calego · March 2013

While I agree with the principle that such attacks are a bit more satisfying, I think I can also agree with what people are saying about NS2 not being quite the right game for such a mechanic.

All the same, it would be interesting to see something like the new Railgun's charge up for Aliens. It could be useful for a lead attack, after which the spamming of mouse buttons could begin. Being OP isn't good, but something like this could raise the skill ceiling a little bit and give skulks a new trick to master. Shoot, it could even apply to fade, lerk, and onos.

Nominous · March 2013

The combat mod had focus for a while. Although it was double damage, the halved rof made it a pain finishing off marines (for me at least). This was before glancing bites were implemented, so I'm curious how well it would work now.

Wheeee wrote: »

we used to have one called stab for the fade. it was pretty fun, but hard to use. ultimately it fell by the wayside. it was pretty OP tbh.

I found it a bit too easy to use, tapping stab and then shadowstep for guaranteed kills. Quite OP. ><

Wheeee · March 2013

karnaj - the difficulty didn't come with the actual mechanic, the difficulty came with staying alive long enough for the stab to go off.

Nominous · March 2013

Wheeee wrote: »

karnaj - the difficulty didn't come with the actual mechanic, the difficulty came with staying alive long enough for the stab to go off.

True, the wind-up time made you a sitting duck if you weren't in mid-air. I didn't master the use of stab; I was pretty bad at fading in general and mained lerk. But there was at least one above-average fade whom I could recall blinking up, preemptively using stab, and hitting with it after falling. I can't recall if you were able to use shadowstep in mid-air to dive accurately toward ground targets (like now) or if you had to move while falling as you wound up stab. Regardless, this guy could do it pretty consistently. I couldn't, so I thought that it had a nice skill ceiling. Picking off lone marines like I did, though, just a simple stab + shadowstep seemed too little risk and too much reward.

Mattk50 · March 2013

Eh, most of the people in this thread seem to be missing the point, its about being able to hold your melee key to charge attacks for more power than quick swipe clicks. It would essentially emulate focus on the aliens side but make it skill based. I dont think it would work for skulks/lerks tho, it makes sense for gorge spit fade swipe and maybe onos but i've never been able to chamber my jaw.

Frustration · March 2013

It is frustrating to die of something you clearly saw was missing you or was still winding up, and yet you still died.

This game needs less of that not more.

Yuuki · March 2013

Zek wrote: »

I think from a general game design perspective, long wind-up times after a button press are generally a bad thing. They weaken the visceral link you feel between pressing the button and hitting the enemy. Even if it's something like holding down the button to charge, it doesn't feel as good to swing by letting go as it does to swing by clicking.

That's quite wrong, like most general statements about game design. Long wind-up feels and work great in some games (e.g. dark souls). I'm not sure about first person games though, as seeing what your character is doing is quite important for this kind of mechanics.

I think there is the possibility for a slower, less spammy and chaotic and more tactical gameplay in NS2, including slower melee attacks, but that would be for a mod more than the vanilla game and would require a lot of work.

We also had a slower version of swipe on the fade during the beta, some kind of secondary heavy swipe attack. It wasn't working so great most of the time, but some players we're pretty good with it in some versions and it was kind of fun.

Long wind up melee attack are a lot more satisfying than spam attacks.

Comments