ns2_lost

lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
edited July 2013 in Mapping
About
Hello!
My name is Kristoffer, i've been creating levels and models mainly for Valve games since 2000 and i used to play the original Natural-Selection a lot.

The Map
Since i love the original NS and creating things i decided to give it a go and ended up with Lost, current progress has been good with a brief break due to Spark not working properly.

The map is currently in the Alpha stage which means it has been greyboxed with temporary lighting and some layout changes.

Screenshots

Overview
http://i.imgur.com/gjIt6ZQ.jpg (ingame)

Download
The map is available on Steam Workshop via:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=158393264

Feedback
I am looking to get some feedback on the layout of the map, it obviously had to be changed at places to accomodate for NS2 and therefore i would love to hear what you think.
What do you like? What do you think should be changed? What needs to be removed?
Comments and feedback are very welcome!

Changelog

Alpha 6
* Added more lights in various areas
* Added a techpoint to Alpha Continuum
* Added a Resource Node to Alpha Continuum
* Added two new areas to connect Alpha Continuum and Continuum Access
* Added a Resource Node to one of the new areas
* Added two new ventilations
* Added Eggs and Cysts to Alpha Continuum and Personell Docking Bay
* Added several Power Nodes for the areas missing one
* Added some stairs to Cargo Bay Delta

* Changed the location of Alpha Continuum
* Changed all Techpoints to allow random starting areas for both teams
* Changed some areas in a minor way to allow a proper placement of Power Nodes
Post edited by lillbrorsan on
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Comments

  • JanosJanos Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2002-08-02 Member: 1050Posts: 390 Fully active user
    Screenshots wouldn't go amiss or a layout overview. :)
    IeptBarakatkiller monkeyHowser3del!
  • ObliviousSightObliviousSight Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158306Posts: 160 Fully active user
    So I had a look around the greybox, and while I can't comment on how close this version is to the original NS level I did find a couple of things that you may want to fix.

    -Your minimap entity needs to be made square as currently the minimap is offset.

    -You should place cysts leading from the techpoints to the resource nodes in Alpha Continuum and Cargo Bay Delta as harvesters that spawn in these locations aren't on infestation. I didn't check Equilibrium Regulation for this problem in-game but from what I can see in the editor it should be fine.

    -Also to help navigation of the map, put all of the vents into a single layer called 'Vents'. This will mark them on the minimap as such.

    Otherwise, I quite enjoyed bouncing around the map as a skulk and look forward to playing a few matches on it.
  • Rudy.czRudy.cz Members Join Date: 2012-02-13 Member: 145410Posts: 443
    Hello and welcome :) It is always nice to see experienced designers joining the mapping comunity!
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  • zenefzenef Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183762Posts: 68 Advanced user
    edited March 2013
    By looking at the minimap i noticed few things you might want to change.

    1. The long vent next to beta deck is as it was in ns1 which is nice, but in ns1 the exit to marine start from that vent was weldable. And it was always welded shut asap(in first 30s). Now when it cant be welded i think you should just remove that exit and let the vent go only to coolant. its too easy to keep pressuring marine start from that vent as it is.

    2. If marine start still is where it was on ns1, it looks very small for my eye now. But ive only looked at the minimap.

    3. Its ok to change ns1 maps if the idea is good, but... It looks like the new path from cargo hive to equi hive makes those 2 hives too close together.

    Everything else in the map looks great! Keep up the good work :)!
  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    edited March 2013
    Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it!

    I've added a new overview to my first post, added the names and ventilations while cleaning it up really.

    I would advice to test the map ingame to get a better feel for it, already fixed some things like location entities.

    I actually had cysts already placed and starts built but not matured D:

    Already knew about the minimap scale but forgot to fix it before uploading the map.

    I knew there had to be a way for the ventilations to be added properly to the minimap but couldn't find anything, i had the name Ventilations but named it Vents now so it will be properly made next time.

    As for the new path from cargo to equi, it looks like they are connected but they actually aren't, only the minimap that makes it look like it which is why you should try the map ingame :P
    Post edited by lillbrorsan on
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  • HowserHowser UKMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2010-02-08 Member: 70488Posts: 654 Advanced user
    hey man, nice to see that overview! It's look really good. I think all the vent routes are gonna give aliens a massive advantage. Its a problem I personally think Is wrong with quite a few custom maps. When the aliens can avoid large sections of the map it becomes to easy for them to constantly harass the marines and sneak past defensible positions and chew on rt's.
    eternal requiem, looks like a giant skull!
    You should join our custom map testing and starting testing it on sundays with us. Add me, rudy or oblivioussight on steam and we'll sort you out with the necessaries
  • zenefzenef Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183762Posts: 68 Advanced user
    edited March 2013
    I tested the map in game now and it looks amazing! I was wrong about the size of marine start, it looks fine in game.

    I have few ideas with picture: http://i.imgur.com/pQFItDV.jpg

    1. I would move beta deck power node so that it cant be spiked/bile bombed from distance. Maybe next to rt.

    2. Remove vent entrance at point X. Too easy access to marine start from everywhere on the map. And the marine start power node is too easily spiked by lerk from that vent(might be even without the vent entrance). You could put crate or something near the node to block lerk spikes.

    3. About point B. As much as id like it to stay like it is now and was in ns1, onos cant climb those ladders in ns2. That has to be redesigned. Onos in cargo/equi side of the map cant get anywhere near internal if there are marines at point M.

    4. Point A. Just make sure to put enough obstacles there so that it isnt too marine friendly spot to arc alpha hive(corridor is quite big).

    5. Coolant. Its huge... but looks nice. You could make it smaller. I have 2 ideas(red/blue line).

    6. Cargo hive power node can be easily spiked down from point E.
    Post edited by zenef on
  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    edited March 2013
    Howser wrote: »
    eternal requiem, looks like a giant skull!
    haha i noticed that aswell earlier xD
    Will check your thread later today.
    zenef wrote: »
    I tested the map in game now and it looks amazing! I was wrong about the size of marine start, it looks fine in game.

    I have few ideas with picture: http://i.imgur.com/pQFItDV.jpg

    1. I would move beta deck power node so that it cant be spiked/bile bombed from distance. Maybe next to rt.

    2. Remove vent entrance at point X. Too easy access to marine start from everywhere on the map. And the marine start power node is too easily spiked by lerk from that vent(might be even without the vent entrance). You could put crate or something near the node to block lerk spikes.

    3. About point B. As much as id like it to stay like it is now and was in ns1, onos cant climb those ladders in ns2. That has to be redesigned. Onos in cargo/equi side of the map cant get anywhere near internal if there are marines at point M.

    4. Point A. Just make sure to put enough obstacles there so that it isnt too marine friendly spot to arc alpha hive(corridor is quite big).

    5. Coolant. Its huge... but looks nice. You could make it smaller. I have 2 ideas(red/blue line).

    6. Cargo hive power node can be easily spiked down from point E.

    Some great ideas here, about Temperature Control, i already had my doubts and wanted to find a proper way to incorporate a pair of stairs into it instead of a ladder, will take a second look at it.
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  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy NetherlandistanMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Posts: 939 Advanced user
    I haven't taken a look in-game yet, but it's great news that someone is remaking this map. I didn't instantly recall which map Lost was when I saw this thread, so I quickly googled the name and ended up at a youtube video of the original, causing an onslaught of memories to come cascading down into my conscious mind. Forgotten memories unlocked right there. :D

    And like Howser said, it'd be great if you were to join us on our sunday night maptests.
    killer monkey
  • LokiLoki Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2012-07-07 Member: 153973Posts: 564 mod
    Loved playing this map back in ns1 so many memories ! Will be nice to play / test it on sunday (or earlier!)
    Creator of ns2 Kodiak, ns2 Derelict, ns2_Undercity, ns2 Discovery, sws ctf Eden , ls_hera, ls_storm, ls_frost, ls_troopers and undertaking the remake of ns2 Shiva and ns2 Ayumi ns2_hera(maps currently on hold)
  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    edited March 2013
    Been working on the map during the evening and have now uploaded Alpha 2 based on feedback and some things i found myself, go go test it out and come back with more delicious comments!

    I also added a new overview that i took ingame.
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  • TaneTane Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-10-25 Member: 32441Posts: 123 Advanced user
    If you want this map to work gameplay wise, you have to solve problem of Alpha hive. Lost would have been one the best maps of NS1 if not the unbalanced alpha hive. As you can see, not only alpha hive is separated from rest of the map, but it has only one true expansion route (to Eternal Requiem). It's actually quite easy solve this problem: just swap Alpha techpoint to Eternal Requiem and leave RT location to alpha. Of course you have remake whole area, but distance wise that is the only option to make this map work.

    Also double RT spots in central of map favours aliens too much. Central position of map is important enough without double RTs, that is just overkill.

    And indeed, the vent to marine start should be removed.

    Scrajm, the best commander of NS2, wrote these tips to make map good gameplay wise: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/128807/making-maps-competative/p1
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  • JoseppeJoseppe Members Join Date: 2012-01-21 Member: 141497Posts: 283 Advanced user
    edited March 2013
    EDIT: *removed by myself*
    Post edited by Joseppe on
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  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    Tane wrote: »
    If you want this map to work gameplay wise, you have to solve problem of Alpha hive. Lost would have been one the best maps of NS1 if not the unbalanced alpha hive. As you can see, not only alpha hive is separated from rest of the map, but it has only one true expansion route (to Eternal Requiem). It's actually quite easy solve this problem: just swap Alpha techpoint to Eternal Requiem and leave RT location to alpha. Of course you have remake whole area, but distance wise that is the only option to make this map work.

    Also double RT spots in central of map favours aliens too much. Central position of map is important enough without double RTs, that is just overkill.

    And indeed, the vent to marine start should be removed.

    Scrajm, the best commander of NS2, wrote these tips to make map good gameplay wise: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/128807/making-maps-competative/p1

    Hey Tane!
    Thanks for your feedback, the new alpha version i released a couple of days ago has the ventilation removed near marine start and the map itself does not have any double RTs, i will check the Alpha hive and the rest to see what i can come up with.
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  • zenefzenef Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183762Posts: 68 Advanced user
    Tane wrote: »
    If you want this map to work gameplay wise, you have to solve problem of Alpha hive. Lost would have been one the best maps of NS1 if not the unbalanced alpha hive. As you can see, not only alpha hive is separated from rest of the map, but it has only one true expansion route (to Eternal Requiem).

    Good point from Tane. This problem could be solved by allowing aliens to only spawn either at cargo or equilibrium.
    Tane wrote: »
    Also double RT spots in central of map favours aliens too much. Central position of map is important enough without double RTs, that is just overkill.

    Yep, "new" rt between equilibrium and temperature control might be too much.


    Cargo power node can be bile bombed from the vent.

  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    Just uploaded Alpha 3 of the level with some major changes, like the Alpha/Equilibrium hive.
    Go test and give some feedback, wouldn't surprise me if i need to add some ventilations.
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  • ObliviousSightObliviousSight Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-09-07 Member: 158306Posts: 160 Fully active user
    We held a test on this map last night and gathered some feedback for you.

    - The commander camera height transitions are very sharp.

    - The Cargo Bay Delta harvester doesn't start covered in infestation if aliens spawn there.

    - Cysting up the ramp in Cargo Bay Delta to the resource node is a bit awkward. The Khamm had to try to cyst under the bottom ramp but that was made difficult by the corridor above. It was suggested that the ramps could swap positions.

    - You can arc the Cargo Bay Delta harvester from Equilibrium Adjunct.

    - The Cargo Bay Delta harvester is easily shot from Cargo Access Corridor, and grenade launchers are very powerful when attacking the Hive from that position.

    - The vent over Gamma Deck Access blocks the commander view of the corridor

    - Marines attacking an Equilibrium Regulation hive can hold position on the quite far back on the high ground and shoot the hive, forcing aliens to climb up and attack them, giving marines a significant advantage.

    - The trenches in Coolant Access are too small. Skulks get stuck on top if they run over them. If you deploy arcs in those trenches they can leave the level bounds.

    - Skulks spawning in Eternal Requiem are spawning stuck to the floor.

    - The hive at Eternal Requiem can be arced from Los Paranoias. Aliens defending that hive have to attack down two straight corridors to try to stop them. It was suggested that a vent could maybe be used to help solve that issue.

    - Eggs are starting spawned in Eternal Requiem without a hive present.
  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    Awesome, will look into all of this later today.
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  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    edited March 2013
    I've taken the feedback you posted ObliviousSight and updated the map to Alpha 4, it includes some major changes so it needs to obviously be tested again, i also uploaded a new overview seeing so much was changed in this version.
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  • zenefzenef Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183762Posts: 68 Advanced user

    - The hive at Eternal Requiem can be arced from Los Paranoias.

    Actually that hive can be arced from beta deck

  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    I've already changed the hive for the next release, basically putting the tech point at the other side of the room.
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  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy NetherlandistanMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Posts: 939 Advanced user
    I was present during the map test with Oblivious, and though I had a ton of fun and an overdose of nostalgia playing this map, it does have some serious issues like he carefully noted and mentioned in his post. Hopefully those issues can be tackled, and I look forward to visiting this map again soon. :)
  • JanosJanos Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2002-08-02 Member: 1050Posts: 390 Fully active user
    Aye was there as well and it was a blast from the past, just with the current layout there are a few issues, just hope they are sorted for the next playtest.

    Try and be there next time! We usually have a great time.
  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    Been busy with real life lately but decided to upload the latest version for you guys to test tonight during your playtest session, not a big changelog but still critical, also added a new screenshot of the current overview.
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  • AdambeanAdambean Cardiff, South WalesMembers, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2005-06-03 Member: 53038Posts: 122 Advanced user
    Hi thar. Great to see this brilliant map being ported over to NS2, and including some slight changes to make it more suitable for NS2's play.

    I didn't see it mentioned though, but you appear to have the map at completely the wrong orientation. This would only affect map views, but here is the original orientation of ns_lost:

    OverviewNs_lost.jpg

    Marine start is meant to be at the north west. It would be less confusing for NS1 players to keep it that way. Not sure how easy it is to rotate a complete map in NS2 though, or if it's worthwhile -- probably not.

    Liking the progress though :D (subscribed)
    Thanks, Adam Reece.
  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    Well that was certainly different, rotating the whole thing is actually easy to do so will do it for the next release.
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  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    Long time no post, been really busy where i work during the summer so had to take a break from the map but i have decided to start again by looking at the story behind Lost and how i can create a theme using it. My plan is to make a completely custom theme where i create my own textures and models, we will see.
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  • JoseppeJoseppe Members Join Date: 2012-01-21 Member: 141497Posts: 283 Advanced user
    edited June 2013
    ...to make a completely custom theme where i create my own textures and models...

    Isn´t this a little bit utopian ? (for one single person)
    8fnCz79.png 8fnCz79.png
  • lillbrorsanlillbrorsan Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-08-21 Member: 20060Posts: 402 Fully active user
    I have no issues with creating my own stuff as that is how i prefer it, however, if people really aren't tired of the same old models, textures and such then fine.
    It's probably more of a way to create something quite different theme-wise that would still fit NS2.
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  • QwiXXeRQwiXXeR Members Join Date: 2004-11-05 Member: 32640Posts: 141 Fully active user
    I think we are all up for some custom content :). Had a look at your portfolio and you obviously have the potential to make your own textures/props.
    If you enjoy making your own content and it keeps you plugging away at your map then great :).
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