Does Nano Shield need to be in the game?

WingflierWingflier Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183769Members
I don't understand the purpose of this ability. I mean it seems that being able to get med packs and ammo anywhere on the map, when your enemy can't, is strong enough as it is. It's frustrating when, as a Fade, a Marine standing in place with Nano Shield and Med Packs can literally out DPS you and kill you faster than you can kill him.

It wasn't in the first game was it? Why did they add it? What do the Aliens get in equivalence?

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Comments

  • coldsmokecoldsmoke Join Date: 2004-07-28 Member: 30202Members
    You just need better aim to compensate for the marine team's massive res advantage. You obviously weren't connecting every single swipe.
  • WingflierWingflier Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183769Members
    coldsmoke wrote: »
    You just need better aim to compensate for the marine team's massive res advantage. You obviously weren't connecting every single swipe.
    Uhm excuse me? He was standing in place. And what do you mean "massive rez advantage"? Nano Shield costs 5, med packs cost 1. Even if he dropped 5 med packs (unlikely), that's 10 resources to kill a 50 resource Fade.

    Seems pretty efficient.
  • dragonmithdragonmith Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182817Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    It used to be more powerful remember... it was nerfed. Personally as marine com I love it: you can hold Pg's for longer, keep a jet packer alive (have you tried dropping med kits on jet packers?) and slow base rushes.

    Also, because you need two com stations, it’s not overpowered at the start of game :).
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members
    wait for the nano shield to wear off before you attack?
    Or leave. As a fade you should be able to get out of sour situations pretty quickly. Don't throw your lifeform away, especially when the marine is 1) out dpsing you and 2) getting healed/shielded.



  • HokesHokes Join Date: 2011-05-04 Member: 97097Members
    Lik what Nous said, aliens have the advantage of determining whether to engage or disengage given their mobility. If it was a situation where you MUST take him out, forcing him to reload might be a good idea before going in. All in all, if you kept forcing the commander to use nano, chances are, you're slowing down their tech in more ways then one.

    And dont underestimate the pinch of using nano shield and medpacks often. It can be a strain on Tres very quickly if not used correctly.

    Aliens have many other toys to play with, so no, they dont get this ability.
  • coldsmokecoldsmoke Join Date: 2004-07-28 Member: 30202Members
    edited March 2013
    Wingflier wrote: »
    coldsmoke wrote: »
    You just need better aim to compensate for the marine team's massive res advantage. You obviously weren't connecting every single swipe.
    Uhm excuse me? He was standing in place. And what do you mean "massive rez advantage"? Nano Shield costs 5, med packs cost 1. Even if he dropped 5 med packs (unlikely), that's 10 resources to kill a 50 resource Fade.

    Seems pretty efficient.

    Only when marines have a resource advantage can they nano shield + medspam someone without delaying the team's tech. It's a nice way of translating a resource advantage to affect direct combat. The fact you questioned what do the aliens get in equivalence makes me wonder if you understand the asymmetric nature of this game.

    If he was standing in place and you were not able to kill him that means you aren't being a good fade and the team with the resource advantage DESERVES to win that engagement if you didn't have the skill to compensate for that. If you danced around him, avoiding fire while getting direct hits you WOULD have eventually killed him. I have done this countless times when I carry an alien team in a pub.

    It's understandable to blame the game.
  • WingflierWingflier Join Date: 2013-03-07 Member: 183769Members
    edited March 2013
    I'm not blaming the game for anything. Our Commander hadn't researched Blink yet, so it was difficult to kite around him. I bring it up not because I'm butthurt about losing a non-Blink Fade (pretty easy to do), I bring it up because I still haven't seen a good explanation for why nano shield is in the game.

    Yes, Aliens have better mobility, and Marines make up for it with much better range, and much better map control with Phase Gates. Gorge Tunnels are a poor substitute, they take time to traverse, not to mention that the enemy can use them.

    So far, I have seen no good explanation for it's there. I've seen explanations on how to counter it, on how it costs resources, but not on WHY it needs to be in the game in the first place. Or what the Aliens get in exchange for such a powerful Commander skill.
  • BentRingBentRing Join Date: 2003-03-04 Member: 14318Members
    Wingflier wrote: »
    What do the Aliens get in equivalence?

    My comparison to marines nanoshield is the bonewall to stop an entire team from entering an area or to keep a fleeing lifeform alive. Although it could be said that enzyme from a drifter would be a better answer so you do more DPS to overcome the nanoshield.
  • coldsmokecoldsmoke Join Date: 2004-07-28 Member: 30202Members
    Like I just said, it's a nice way of translating a resource advantage to directly enhance marines in the middle of combat. Same concept as medpack but increased res cost = bigger effect.
  • Angry ChildAngry Child Join Date: 2012-12-05 Member: 174256Members
    Nanoshied costs a large amount of res and has a large impact as result, if the marines can spam nanoshield atleast know that you are slowing their teching quite considerably, and nobody forces you to sit there in front of nano shielded marines and take bullets, you can always disengage and come back when it wears off.
  • MikiesoxMikiesox Join Date: 2013-02-10 Member: 182964Members
    Wingflier wrote: »
    I'm not blaming the game for anything. Our Commander hadn't researched Blink yet, so it was difficult to kite around him. I bring it up not because I'm butthurt about losing a non-Blink Fade (pretty easy to do), I bring it up because I still haven't seen a good explanation for why nano shield is in the game.

    Yes, Aliens have better mobility, and Marines make up for it with much better range, and much better map control with Phase Gates. Gorge Tunnels are a poor substitute, they take time to traverse, not to mention that the enemy can use them.

    So far, I have seen no good explanation for it's there. I've seen explanations on how to counter it, on how it costs resources, but not on WHY it needs to be in the game in the first place. Or what the Aliens get in exchange for such a powerful Commander skill.

    Yes, you do sound butthurt. Why is any ability in the game? What the heck kind of answer are you looking for kid? It is advantageous to the marine team in certain situations to have it. Beyond that it looks cool???
    Remember, in an asymmetry game you can't always point to one specific ability as being THE COUNTER. Sometimes it's a combination of little things that provide the 'response' to the enemy team's abilities.
  • SavantSavant Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10289Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Zek wrote: »
    I think it's fine as a structure ability. Being able to use it on marines though is just harmful to gameplay IMO.
    Although I tend to agree, I do think at the very least that if nanoshield is active that any healing (medpack or armory) should be cut by 50% as well. If damage is reduced by 50%, healing should be too.

  • Reyn89Reyn89 Join Date: 2012-07-08 Member: 153985Members
    You can ask 'Why is it in the game' about everything. It's in the game to add complexity and variety.
    Wingflier wrote: »
    Nano Shield costs 5, med packs cost 1. Even if he dropped 5 med packs (unlikely), that's 10 resources to kill a 50 resource Fade.

    Seems pretty efficient.

    As someone else said, just wait for the nano shield to wear off. If they can afford to keep spamming it the chances are that you've lost anyway. Your point about 10 res to kill a 50 res fade is also a little moot as I'm hoping that you aren't dying to the first nano/med marine you come across.

    Reyn
  • Kei-chanKei-chan Join Date: 2013-01-20 Member: 180898Members
    Zek wrote: »
    I think it's fine as a structure ability. Being able to use it on marines though is just harmful to gameplay IMO.
    A million times this.
  • KamamuraKamamura Join Date: 2013-03-06 Member: 183736Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I like nanoshield very much as a feature, especially when playing as a commander, but not for its direct effect (as stated, it is easily countered by a temporary withdrawal, especially by fast enemies like fade), but because of its psychological effect on the team. It works similar to banners on a medieval battlefield - the fighters rallied around it, and its bearer was important. When you shield and scan before attack, your team knows that you really wish this attack to succeed, and they often fight harder... sometimes not, sometimes they just run away, but that's life, I guess.
  • Apreche2Apreche2 Join Date: 2012-08-06 Member: 154849Members
    That's why the nano shield is visible. If you see a nano shield, run away. Them come back after it wears off. Now the marine commander wasted res on a nano shield.
  • FuleFule Join Date: 2009-06-04 Member: 67683Members
    OP is that guy who attacks a marine even when he has nano shield and then complains that it's overpowered.
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    You don't always have the chance to just run away. Sometimes running away is an even worse option. So you can get stuck between a rock and a hard place when that nanoshield without warning suddenly pops up.

  • MaximumSquidMaximumSquid Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
    WTT: Nano-Shield for Electrify
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited March 2013
    50% damage reduction combimed with medpacks is definitely too powerful, there is no arguing with that. When casted on marines, the nano shield should instead be a temporary +20 armor boost, equal to an extra armor upgrade. While this is massive nerf to the nano-shield, it is needed. This nerf should also include decreasing the cost of nano-shield to something like 3 res instead of 5, since it wouldn't be used on marines if it was that expensive with a nerf like this. It should still be a viable strategy to gain an edge in combat.
    Aliens do have a counterpart to the nano-shield though, available on 1 hive. Drifter enzyme, 50% attack speed boost.
  • LamboLambo Iceland Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154915Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Zek wrote: »
    I think it's fine as a structure ability. Being able to use it on marines though is just harmful to gameplay IMO.
    I disagree.

    It's a bit too strong the way it is now, it might need a less % dmg reduction and last shorter, but removing it completely would be a mistake(imo).
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Nano shield is perfectly fine as is. It can only be used on one marine, if you could use it on multiple THEN it'd be op. Also there's a 2 second ish period that the marine will be unable to have nano shield due to the fact the cd on the ability is longer than the duration.
  • JAMESEARLJONOSJAMESEARLJONOS Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
    Nanoshield is a badly designed gameplay element when it comes to its use on marines. It's a no-skill direct "I win" button that effectively makes a good shotgun marine into God for 8 seconds. No thanks.
  • IkeIke Join Date: 2013-03-04 Member: 183661Members
    edited March 2013
    swalk wrote: »
    the nano shield should instead be a temporary +20 armor boost, equal to an extra armor upgrade. While this is massive nerf to the nano-shield, it is needed. This nerf should also include decreasing the cost of nano-shield to something like 3 res instead of 5, since it wouldn't be used on marines if it was that expensive with a nerf like this. It should still be a viable strategy to gain an edge in combat.

    Nop, 20 armor boost (temporary) for 3 res is expensive and useless.

    Med Pack heal 50 hp, no cd, 1 res
    Your nano shield gives 20 armor so 40 hp, with cd for 3 res ? x_x

    Maybe nanoshield is too strong but your nano is useless.

  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Nanoshield is a badly designed gameplay element when it comes to its use on marines. It's a no-skill direct "I win" button that effectively makes a good shotgun marine into God for 8 seconds. No thanks.

    It lasts 5 (pretty sure).
  • CrazyEddieCrazyEddie Join Date: 2013-01-08 Member: 178196Members
    Nanoshield is a badly designed gameplay element when it comes to its use on marines. It's a no-skill direct "I win" button that effectively makes a good shotgun marine into God for 8 seconds. No thanks.

    So are competitive teams using nanoshield to win all their games as marines? If not, why not? Good sportsmanship?
  • Madd0gMadd0g Join Date: 2012-12-24 Member: 176116Members
    Support abilities for commander are an awsome thing to have.
    I actually think aliens should get some aswell.
  • SavantSavant Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10289Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    (nanoshield) lasts 5 (pretty sure).
    I think you're thinking of the nanoshield cost which is 5 res. The duration is indeed 8 seconds.

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