How Powerful is Modding?

SethbeastalanSethbeastalan Join Date: 2011-05-05 Member: 97360Members
I haven't looked into modding in NS2, yet, but I was wondering how far you are able to go. Basically, I want to know if we're bounded to just NS2, or if we can go as far as to make the game totally unrecognizable. Examples and specifics would be really helpful.

Comments

  • RedTalonRedTalon Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171203Members
    edited March 2013
    I don't know if there are any examples but given how you can override everything that is bounded to lua in this game you could potentially make something like a platformer. Given that you understand most if not all of the code. However there are limitations such as you can't rewrite the core engine that dictates how the game is rendered... or maybe I'm wrong.

    Keep in mind though. Mods in this game will always be written entirely in lua unless you know C language and like many scripting language on its own isn't that great. In fact if I'm not wrong even to attempt running lua files you need a IDE or something like that written in another language like C++. There are an entire group of programming language (such as C++) which is more preferred to make games.
  • McGlaspieMcGlaspie www.team156.com Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
    In my experience from modding games over the years (Quake 1&2, UT & UT2004, Half-Life 1&2, Homeworld 1&2), NS2 is by far without any doubt the most modifiable game I've ever gotten my hands on. Period. Keep in mind it was written for a specific game, but UWE made modding a huge priority during Spark's development.

    @RedTalon You can actually control the rendering process to a degree. While you don't have 100% control (I.e. the C++ source code), the rendering pipe-line is in effect data driven. See core/renderer/Deferred.render_setup to get an idea of what I'm alluding to.
  • IronsoulIronsoul Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members
    The only thing holding modding back at the moment is lack of documentation. NS2, the game, is written ENTIRELY in Lua. You could delete all the official lua files, and start over and build an entirely new game from scratch.

    The spark engine, which is written in C++, handles the direct x 9 rendering, so if you knew what you were doing, you could reverse engineer the lua calls to rendering stuff, and write an opengl renderer for ns2... if you wanted.

    I don't know what the netcode is written in, but the game itself is completely moddable and total conversions wouldn't be too difficult, e.g. a role playing game like skyrim is creatable in the spark engine.
  • Cat-PokerCat-Poker Join Date: 2012-08-28 Member: 156670Members
    Ironsoul wrote: »
    a role playing game like skyrim is creatable in the spark engine.
    Someone get on this.
  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Cat-Poker wrote: »
    Ironsoul wrote: »
    a role playing game like skyrim is creatable in the spark engine.
    Someone get on this.

    Yes, someone make me a RPG in the Dune universe! I'll gift you a copy of NS2 in return! Deal?
  • RedTalonRedTalon Join Date: 2012-11-14 Member: 171203Members
    Will an open world rpg even work? I mean they do clip the view distance so people don't get horrendous fps drops.

    Maybe something enclosed like a dungeon crawling game maybe... well I'd want a horror survival genre fps that has partial mmog but that only exist in my dreams... (deadspace themed would be cool).
  • JimWestJimWest Join Date: 2010-01-03 Member: 69865Members, Reinforced - Silver
    The clip distance is not the problem, you can make it higher without big frame drops, but ns2 cant handle many models at a place very well. If you got 100 npcs or so the fps will go down.
  • WoollySammothWoollySammoth Join Date: 2013-02-14 Member: 183062Members
    Ironsoul wrote: »
    The only thing holding modding back at the moment is lack of documentation.

    This!

    I've always quite liked modding--though i'm a total amateur at it, and i was really exited about modding NS2. All my ideas thus far have ended in failure after I've spent fruitless hours wadding through lua files after lua files trying to figure out exactly what it is i'm looking for. :p

    The really annoying thing is: when you look through it all it does seem like it would be *amazingly* mod-able, and fun to mod. If only I could figure out where to start. :D

    UWE should drop all those important thing they're doing and dedicate all their time to extensively commenting all the lua files, and producing a huge, detailed appendix/glossary thing...specifically for me. ;P
  • SethbeastalanSethbeastalan Join Date: 2011-05-05 Member: 97360Members
    Ironsoul wrote: »
    The only thing holding modding back at the moment is lack of documentation.

    This!

    I've always quite liked modding--though i'm a total amateur at it, and i was really exited about modding NS2. All my ideas thus far have ended in failure after I've spent fruitless hours wadding through lua files after lua files trying to figure out exactly what it is i'm looking for. :p

    The really annoying thing is: when you look through it all it does seem like it would be *amazingly* mod-able, and fun to mod. If only I could figure out where to start. :D

    UWE should drop all those important thing they're doing and dedicate all their time to extensively commenting all the lua files, and producing a huge, detailed appendix/glossary thing...specifically for me. ;P

    As much as you're joking here, that's not a half bad idea. If the barrier to entry is lowered you'll see a huge influx of mods.
  • WoollySammothWoollySammoth Join Date: 2013-02-14 Member: 183062Members
    As much as that might help, I'd imagine getting bots would be a better move. Being unable to play mods without a server I think is holding modding back. If people could try mods out offline the ones that people enjoyed would get known for being good, and get servers off the back of that.

    No need to tell me how hard programming AI is. I'm still gonna keep my fingers crossed though.
  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
    There are some interesting videos of the UW devs doing early ns2 alpha testing (around 2010-11?). In them, they changed some of the parameters of the game in real-time as it played, using the Lua framework (which anyone has access to). (If only Lua supported multithreading better...)
  • lwflwf Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58311Members, Constellation
    NS2 is written in Lua and is open source. To the Spark engine, NS2 is basically just as much of a mod as any other Lua code by the community. So yes, you could make an entirely different game for the Spark engine from scratch if you wanted to.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    edited March 2013
    I wouldn't use Spark to do anything that isn't close to a multiplayer rts-fps mix.

    You could make other types of games with it but then lots of other engines would be much better comparatively. Basically if you don't use the advantage of having a fps-rts mix already built-in you throw away most of what could give Spark an edge over the competition.
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