It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played. With the current rounds played (which isn't much to be honest), shows wins skewed in favor of marines between the 0-15 minute mark where mostly are NOT playing those higher lifeforms. Beyond the 15 minute mark the wins start to skew in favor aliens where the higher lifeforms are more prevalent.
It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played.
I'm not 'calling it'. By all means it's only been a day, I'd want to see a week before any conclusion can be drawn. My observation was simply on where things are now. I'd be quite happy if things were at 50/50 though - time will tell.
I like the gorge tunnels, I think they'll work out good when people are used to them.
And babblers are funny, they just need some tweaking to do at least something.
It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played.
I'm not 'calling it'. By all means it's only been a day, I'd want to see a week before any conclusion can be drawn. My observation was simply on where things are now. I'd be quite happy if things were at 50/50 though - time will tell.
So what was the basis of your observation? If you actually look at NS2Stats it's highly balanced with the current data set.
It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played.
I'm not 'calling it'. By all means it's only been a day, I'd want to see a week before any conclusion can be drawn. My observation was simply on where things are now. I'd be quite happy if things were at 50/50 though - time will tell.
So what was the basis of your observation? If you actually look at NS2Stats it's highly balanced with the current data set.
when i looked, the stats were back to almost 60% alien win.
what the game needs is something to allow marines to recover from losing a power node/key phase gate. the marines lose a single building and it's almost a guaranteed GG in that single blow, no reinforcements = lose the entire base.
once that happens and alien have map control, it's soooo easy for aliens to hit and run to just stop marines progressing. it becomes impossible for marines to kill anything more than skulk. it's far too unforgiving and leads to incredibly boring games imo.
It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played.
I'm not 'calling it'. By all means it's only been a day, I'd want to see a week before any conclusion can be drawn. My observation was simply on where things are now. I'd be quite happy if things were at 50/50 though - time will tell.
So what was the basis of your observation? If you actually look at NS2Stats it's highly balanced with the current data set.
when i looked, the stats were back to almost 60% alien win.
It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played.
I'm not 'calling it'. By all means it's only been a day, I'd want to see a week before any conclusion can be drawn. My observation was simply on where things are now. I'd be quite happy if things were at 50/50 though - time will tell.
So what was the basis of your observation? If you actually look at NS2Stats it's highly balanced with the current data set.
when i looked, the stats were back to almost 60% alien win.
Go ahead and look again right now, I'll wait.
i disabled mods. smaller sample size, but it's called a sample size because it's usually a fair sample. i don't know why, but modded servers always have marine biased results (look at the b240 stats - which was confirmed as 50.7% over 25k games - but if you include modded servers show 55% marine)
also, skulks were reverted to pre-b240 state. if b240 was 50%, then it's only logical that it would be alien favoured...
i'm not blindly reading stats, i'm using stats in assistance to deduce a realistic figure.
It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played.
I'm not 'calling it'. By all means it's only been a day, I'd want to see a week before any conclusion can be drawn. My observation was simply on where things are now. I'd be quite happy if things were at 50/50 though - time will tell.
So what was the basis of your observation? If you actually look at NS2Stats it's highly balanced with the current data set.
when i looked, the stats were back to almost 60% alien win.
Go ahead and look again right now, I'll wait.
i disabled mods. smaller sample size, but it's called a sample size because it's usually a fair sample. i don't know why, but modded servers always have marine biased results (look at the b240 stats - which was confirmed as 50.7% over 25k games - but if you include modded servers show 55% marine)
also, skulks were reverted to pre-b240 state. if b240 was 50%, then it's only logical that it would be alien favoured...
i'm not blindly reading stats, i'm using stats in assistance to deduce a realistic figure.
16 games is not a meaningful sample. If one single game had gone differently that would be 50/50 as well. What you're doing is manipulating the stats to a figure that suits your conclusion. There's no reason to disable all mods, there are no Combat or Classic servers in there. Disabling mods changes the outcome because hardly any servers fit that category.
I honestly felt less gimped in 240. I don't know, maybe since I knew the movement was so broken I didn't try to anything other than ambush, but now It truly feels like I'm playing a cloud, the way the skulk slowly floats around just asking to be shot.
It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played.
I'm not 'calling it'. By all means it's only been a day, I'd want to see a week before any conclusion can be drawn. My observation was simply on where things are now. I'd be quite happy if things were at 50/50 though - time will tell.
So what was the basis of your observation? If you actually look at NS2Stats it's highly balanced with the current data set.
when i looked, the stats were back to almost 60% alien win.
Go ahead and look again right now, I'll wait.
i disabled mods. smaller sample size, but it's called a sample size because it's usually a fair sample. i don't know why, but modded servers always have marine biased results (look at the b240 stats - which was confirmed as 50.7% over 25k games - but if you include modded servers show 55% marine)
also, skulks were reverted to pre-b240 state. if b240 was 50%, then it's only logical that it would be alien favoured...
i'm not blindly reading stats, i'm using stats in assistance to deduce a realistic figure.
16 games is not a meaningful sample. If one single game had gone differently that would be 50/50 as well. What you're doing is manipulating the stats to a figure that suits your conclusion. There's no reason to disable all mods, there are no Combat or Classic servers in there. Disabling mods changes the outcome because hardly any servers fit that category.
well how about facts and their relation to ns2 stats data?
b239
fact: 0.41 marine win (info from UWE)
ns2stats with mods: 0.462
ns2stats with no mods: 0.439
b240
fact: 0.507 marine win (info from UWE)
ns2stats with mods: 0.54
ns2stats with no mods: 0.5
b241
fact: ?
ns2stats with mods: 0.52
ns2stats with no mods: 0.428
i just noticed that including mods continually gives anomalous stats and therefore don't see the point. i'm not saying this is conclusive, but there remains a gaping hole in your argument being that a significantly improved skulk has had no effect on balance...
edit: need i remind you that it was YOU who referenced ns2stats in this instance. savant and myself seem to be in agreement that b241 is likely to be close to b239's 0.41 because almost nothing has changed with regards to balance.
Could we not have a balance discussion in every thread that pops up?
I have to say b241 plays a lot better. It's not just the skulk bug being fixed, but the game feels smoother overall. I'm really enjoying this build so far.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
also, skulks were reverted to pre-b240 state. if b240 was 50%, then it's only logical that it would be alien favoured...
Only the momentum ("feel-like-a-brick") bug was fixed. The improved hitreg is still there, as is the lower air control/acceleration. The latter changes are fairly subtle though - it's slightly harder to dodge, and marines have a slightly easier time to dodge you, as your acceleration is slightly lower.
Only the momentum ("feel-like-a-brick") bug was fixed. The improved hitreg is still there, as is the lower air control/acceleration. The latter changes are fairly subtle though - it's slightly harder to dodge, and marines have a slightly easier time to dodge you, as your acceleration is slightly lower.
This is going to be like the 5th time I'm saying this: the momentum bug was fixed on the ground, but now it happens on walls.
This is how it looked like on 239 (and 240):
This is how it looks in 241:
Keep a close eye on the speed bar and note that the speed immediately drops as soon as the skulk touches the wall on 241 (you can hear the landing sound).
You can get some speed if you avoid touching the wall, or by dropping a high vertical distance and jumping off the wall.
Honestly, striker I'm not sure how you did that in 239/240. I assume, based on the video all you did was run along the wall while spamming jump..... whenever I attempted that in 239/240, I got the speed you are getting in 241. Maybe it was a bug or some mod that allowed that kind speed.
not sure if that was an intentional change... although i wouldn't be surprised; that b239 method looked like you could turn on a sixpence and keep all of your momentum (plus super gimmicky).
Honestly, striker I'm not sure how you did that in 239/240. I assume, based on the video all you did was run along the wall while spamming jump..... whenever I attempted that in 239/240, I got the speed you are getting in 241. Maybe it was a bug or some mod that allowed that kind speed.
No, it was really easy to get that fast on that wall prior to 240.
I'm curious how it was about timing when it is jump spamming? Unless you are saying there was a 'perfect' interval to hit between jump? (maybe that's why it didn't work for me).
I'm curious how it was about timing when it is jump spamming? Unless you are saying there was a 'perfect' interval to hit between jump? (maybe that's why it didn't work for me).
if you jump within a ~250ms window you don't gain any speed, if you wait too long to jump then the wallwalk friction is applied
still - it's good to remove this silly mechanic, but the Skulk movement has pretty much been driven into the ground as a result
Comments
obviously we still need door welding
Especially server side *nudge nudge*
It's too soon to call what the win/loss ratios are now as not enough rounds have been played. With the current rounds played (which isn't much to be honest), shows wins skewed in favor of marines between the 0-15 minute mark where mostly are NOT playing those higher lifeforms. Beyond the 15 minute mark the wins start to skew in favor aliens where the higher lifeforms are more prevalent.
And babblers are funny, they just need some tweaking to do at least something.
So what was the basis of your observation? If you actually look at NS2Stats it's highly balanced with the current data set.
when i looked, the stats were back to almost 60% alien win.
what the game needs is something to allow marines to recover from losing a power node/key phase gate. the marines lose a single building and it's almost a guaranteed GG in that single blow, no reinforcements = lose the entire base.
once that happens and alien have map control, it's soooo easy for aliens to hit and run to just stop marines progressing. it becomes impossible for marines to kill anything more than skulk. it's far too unforgiving and leads to incredibly boring games imo.
Go ahead and look again right now, I'll wait.
i disabled mods. smaller sample size, but it's called a sample size because it's usually a fair sample. i don't know why, but modded servers always have marine biased results (look at the b240 stats - which was confirmed as 50.7% over 25k games - but if you include modded servers show 55% marine)
also, skulks were reverted to pre-b240 state. if b240 was 50%, then it's only logical that it would be alien favoured...
i'm not blindly reading stats, i'm using stats in assistance to deduce a realistic figure.
16 games is not a meaningful sample. If one single game had gone differently that would be 50/50 as well. What you're doing is manipulating the stats to a figure that suits your conclusion. There's no reason to disable all mods, there are no Combat or Classic servers in there. Disabling mods changes the outcome because hardly any servers fit that category.
well how about facts and their relation to ns2 stats data?
b239
fact: 0.41 marine win (info from UWE)
ns2stats with mods: 0.462
ns2stats with no mods: 0.439
b240
fact: 0.507 marine win (info from UWE)
ns2stats with mods: 0.54
ns2stats with no mods: 0.5
b241
fact: ?
ns2stats with mods: 0.52
ns2stats with no mods: 0.428
i just noticed that including mods continually gives anomalous stats and therefore don't see the point. i'm not saying this is conclusive, but there remains a gaping hole in your argument being that a significantly improved skulk has had no effect on balance...
edit: need i remind you that it was YOU who referenced ns2stats in this instance. savant and myself seem to be in agreement that b241 is likely to be close to b239's 0.41 because almost nothing has changed with regards to balance.
I hope you weren't using NS2 stats, Savant. You already discredited it in another thread.
We must wait until Monday to get some decent statistics from NS2 stats.
I'd give it until Wednesday.
I have to say b241 plays a lot better. It's not just the skulk bug being fixed, but the game feels smoother overall. I'm really enjoying this build so far.
Only the momentum ("feel-like-a-brick") bug was fixed. The improved hitreg is still there, as is the lower air control/acceleration. The latter changes are fairly subtle though - it's slightly harder to dodge, and marines have a slightly easier time to dodge you, as your acceleration is slightly lower.
This is going to be like the 5th time I'm saying this: the momentum bug was fixed on the ground, but now it happens on walls.
This is how it looked like on 239 (and 240):
This is how it looks in 241:
Keep a close eye on the speed bar and note that the speed immediately drops as soon as the skulk touches the wall on 241 (you can hear the landing sound).
You can get some speed if you avoid touching the wall, or by dropping a high vertical distance and jumping off the wall.
No, it was really easy to get that fast on that wall prior to 240.
I'm curious how it was about timing when it is jump spamming? Unless you are saying there was a 'perfect' interval to hit between jump? (maybe that's why it didn't work for me).
The way you gained speed maybe, but I sure haven't seen many complaints about this.
still - it's good to remove this silly mechanic, but the Skulk movement has pretty much been driven into the ground as a result
The way that is described sounds more like an unintentional bug.