I've played against GOOD marine players. The kind that don't fall for any skulk tricks, and have crazy-good aim. But how do they survive being attacking by 3 good skulk players at once? By holding down the crouch key, and jumping all over the place. Skulks already can not bite heads and have a tough time with feet. Crouching removes the midsection and makes them all heads and feet. All that alone is a bug. But now make that TINY, BUGGY hitbox into a moving bouncing backpedally target, and its stupid hard to even kill a marine 1on1, even if you get the jump on him.
I enjoy the ability to jump as much as I want as a marine. This isn't suppose to be a 'realism' mod, like CS. Just fix the hitboxes and I'll be okay with it.
saw a marine standing on a ladder. Looking the wrong way. Crept up, chomped at his feet, for about 10 seconds. He casually looks down, pulls the trigger on his lmg. I'm dead.
Problem 1.) Fix the hitbox Problem 2.) Bunny hopping sucks for marines, gorges, fades and onos. Skulks are built for it but the rest should be nerfed. Delay in the jump repeat perhaps (even 0.5 seconds would help).
As a marines I find sidestep as effective and more realistic. I kept two fades busy for about 30 seconds with sidestep and a pistol. LoL <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's funny how accepted an exploit becomes in a 'pro/good player' crowd. So Carmack was too lazy to fix the strafe-jumping bug, it doesn't mean it's ok, just fine, perfect (I realise he did in Q3, but put it back when a few bunnyhoppers whined. It seems the loudest always win). The game may not be aiming to be a realism mod, but some realistic physics are always nice. I'd love to see this mod evolve to the UT2003 Engine like The Opera guys are doing. It's a great engine, and it has great physics, along with Karma. No bunnyhopping or super-speed increases when jumping, looks good, and you can do a lot more with it.
Ah well, I doubt it'll ever happen since the NS team seems to have gotten pretty close with Valve. They'll no doubt wait for the Valve Engine to arrive and move onto it.
It's space man low grav. come on give us marines a break. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hey, I've been in favor of marines loosing all jumping aspects from the game completely for a long time now. If you think about it, most if not all the important places on any map can be reached by just walking to it.
Skulks are deadly, indeed, but only in close combat (and for now the hitbox bug duck-jumping makes marines even there hard to kill. This has nothing to do with bunny hopping, play TFC and you will see real bunny hopping). I don't care about jumping marines in close combat as soon as the bug is fixed. They will die quick and dirty. Playing marine I kill 4 of 5 skulks before they are even able to touch me because every map has long passages (marine start to doors on most maps is already a very long way) where no skulk is able to surprise me. And this is what I see everywhere I play. Playing skulk I attack from behind or above or surprise the marine or I die. Two seconds moving to the marine means quick death.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've been in favor of marines loosing all jumping aspects from the game completely <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can we take away marine strafing as well please, its not very realistic and I find it hard to hit them as skulk when i run in a straight line at them and they strafe to the side.
*abuse@natural-selection.org* i think thats allmost called for,
Now with that comment out of the way, This mod is Supposted to be a "first person strad"*direct quote* How is it Strad to Just Jump constantly, how is that not deviationg from the games Entire idea. Disabiling Marine Jump would be a bit harsh I think the idea of a stanima bar *unlike CS or FA* Say instead of effecting all movement it only effects jumping, thus allowning a marine to do, say 4 jump? befre tiering for a short time and "catch his breath" because after all they are Still Human, we cant jump constantly without growing tiered?
I dont want this mod to go totaly "realisitc" but some of the things that are happeneing are rediculus <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, they're just fine. Jumping marine is actually easier to kill than somebody who is ducking in a corner with distance for example: ns_eclipse features some nice places to be.
I just hope that Jumping is not touched in future releases, it would simply make marines easy and it would seem like a punishment. Thats why, devs should draw a line somewhere, like messing with game physics & player features.
btw, marines would look very high tech soldiers with some laser rifles, lasers firing everywhere in a dark room. It would probably look very cool.
Valve likes dipping their corruption in everything. I hate Valve, they think they're invincible. We havent seen a new TFC2 picture, in what, two years? All they did to get where they are today is buy CS from gooseman. We dont hear much of Gooseman nowadays, gee, I wonder why.
Valve doesn't help mods, they just buy them out. Honestly, they'll probably end up buying NS out as well.
I never said it was impossible to kill skulks before they ever reached you, im merely making a point by saying that if you gave skulks godlike melee powers to which marines couldn't stand up to when in melee range you would be completely destroying early game balance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Playing skulk I attack from behind or above or surprise the marine or I die. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, so those marines you surprise shouldn't stand a chance if you mess up? Just because you happen to be in melee range?
Also, im not saying there are no long passages in maps, but if you look at them you will notice those kind of areas are not very numerous. As for killing skulks, yes, an experienced player can kill many skulks before he dies, UNLESS the skulks are also experienced. I cannot say how many times wallcrawling has saved my life and let me kill that pesky marine attacking me. And as a marine, i have killed around 10 skulks already (not all the same time of course) without dying. Its just a matter of placement and sometimes even luck.
I agree with most people on this topic, but bunny hopping isnt whats going on in NS. In fact, the dev team made it almost impossible to bhop in NS and im glad since i have always hated the idea. Skulks can bhop because they were designed to be able to do it. The only problem now are crouching hitboxes, which can be easily defeated if you jump and attack at the same time, therefore hitting the marine in the head or the arms.
To bad for gooseman, lol some idiots dont learn from others mistakes *points to Microsoft and billgates* He got rich by doing what valve did, Bought somones elses product and then got rich off it, im supprised people havent learn yet *sigh*
And CS isnt anything special, it has no realy great Features, Just a semi interesting theme, and real guns so all the little boys can play soilders without the Brutilisation <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->, however the way it worked was: CS Betas was supposibly the Golden Era of CS [i dont realy know just taking the words of 2 realy good mates], In that Golden era it attracted GOOD REVIEWS on all the major sites, thus getting alot of Public Suport and atracking hordes of people, No new reviews For CS has come Out Scince that Golden era thus people who look At reviews get good Impressions for it, You may also notice that peopel either Like or hate CS, this is called the "moron factor" or "Ignorant Masses" either will do, this is where People Do the same Task over and over again with very Little Varience[Take Diablo/Dungeon Seige For Exsample as Mindless Mouse Pressing [hack and slash]] this Consept Works for all games, that is why the quality of games is Still Lower then it should be, thus you get all the idiots Playing Cs doing the same thing over and over, and because they are told over and over in game that CS is fun they acctuly Beleave it [Lieing to themselfs/ peer preasure, this would give people who work in marketing Wet dreams <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->], This is also why When somone brings Out a good game [NS, U9 Morrowwind] they are less popular then they should be, btw.
Thanks NS Dev team you have done a great Job, and from one designer to another, Keep up the good work <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Valve likes dipping their corruption in everything. I hate Valve, they think they're invincible. We havent seen a new TFC2 picture, in what, two years? All they did to get where they are today is buy CS from gooseman. We dont hear much of Gooseman nowadays, gee, I wonder why.
Valve doesn't help mods, they just buy them out. Honestly, they'll probably end up buying NS out as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't know where you get this hateful view of Valve from. They've supported this community like no other developer, and to think, they're involved with Sierra. Anybody who is anybody knows how customer-unfriendly Sierra is. We haven't seen TF2 because they started it over when they decided to do a new and original engine. It's not unusual for a developer to not want to give too much away too early on. Gooseman is busy working on CS2 for that engine. I don't think you'd be giving out interviews all the time if you were.
They help out a lot, they also give Mod makers opportunity to go retail. Though most fans like to call them sellouts, I'm sure a lot of Mod makers would love that chance.
Deadman, You're just jealous that he's a billionaire and you aren't. MS may not make the best decisions all the time but Billy-G is far from stupid.
Actually NS maps are loaded with super ideal hallways in which a marine can crouch and mow down skulk after skulk after skulk before they even get close. Which is as it should be!
Also tactically you stand a much better chance vs a skulk when you have your back to a wall, or even better: a corner for the simple reason that you have to track less. The less you have to move your gun to track your enemy the better chance you stand against him. If you have your back to a wall you only have to track 50% of your surroundings, and in a corner you only have to track 25%. Sure bunnyhopping around makes you harder to hit, but it also makes it harder to hit the skulk, and every stray bullet you manage to land on him is going to do a lot less damage than the stray bite that takes your leg off.
Bottom line: skulks work best when they get behind you. Walls and corners are your friends.
First, Deadman, you should only capitalize words at the beginning of a sentence, proper names, months, weekday names, the word "I", and a few other things. Don't just capitalize whatever you feel like.
On a different note, bunnyhopping isn't just "jumping a lot"; it's a specific way of getting around that doesn't involve hitting the forward key, and skulks can't do it unless they hold the "non-sticky" key the whole time. That's because the skulk stickiness works on the floors as well, and it will slow down any extra speed you get in the air.
Comments
I've played against GOOD marine players. The kind that don't fall for any skulk tricks, and have crazy-good aim. But how do they survive being attacking by 3 good skulk players at once? By holding down the crouch key, and jumping all over the place. Skulks already can not bite heads and have a tough time with feet. Crouching removes the midsection and makes them all heads and feet. All that alone is a bug. But now make that TINY, BUGGY hitbox into a moving bouncing backpedally target, and its stupid hard to even kill a marine 1on1, even if you get the jump on him.
I enjoy the ability to jump as much as I want as a marine. This isn't suppose to be a 'realism' mod, like CS. Just fix the hitboxes and I'll be okay with it.
Problem 1.) Fix the hitbox
Problem 2.) Bunny hopping sucks for marines, gorges, fades and onos. Skulks are built for it but the rest should be nerfed. Delay in the jump repeat perhaps (even 0.5 seconds would help).
As a marines I find sidestep as effective and more realistic. I kept two fades busy for about 30 seconds with sidestep and a pistol. LoL <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ah well, I doubt it'll ever happen since the NS team seems to have gotten pretty close with Valve. They'll no doubt wait for the Valve Engine to arrive and move onto it.
But, I'm not in charge ...
/me shrugs
Skulks are deadly, indeed, but only in close combat (and for now the hitbox bug duck-jumping makes marines even there hard to kill. This has nothing to do with bunny hopping, play TFC and you will see real bunny hopping). I don't care about jumping marines in close combat as soon as the bug is fixed. They will die quick and dirty.
Playing marine I kill 4 of 5 skulks before they are even able to touch me because every map has long passages (marine start to doors on most maps is already a very long way) where no skulk is able to surprise me. And this is what I see everywhere I play. Playing skulk I attack from behind or above or surprise the marine or I die. Two seconds moving to the marine means quick death.
I've been in favor of marines loosing all jumping aspects from the game completely
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can we take away marine strafing as well please, its not very realistic and I find it hard to hit them as skulk when i run in a straight line at them and they strafe to the side.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
i think thats allmost called for,
Now with that comment out of the way,
This mod is Supposted to be a "first person strad"*direct quote*
How is it Strad to Just Jump constantly, how is that not deviationg from the games Entire idea.
Disabiling Marine Jump would be a bit harsh
I think the idea of a stanima bar *unlike CS or FA*
Say instead of effecting all movement it only effects jumping, thus allowning a marine to do, say 4 jump? befre tiering for a short time and "catch his breath" because after all they are Still Human, we cant jump constantly without growing tiered?
I dont want this mod to go totaly "realisitc" but some of the things that are happeneing are rediculus <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
thanks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just hope that Jumping is not touched in future releases, it would simply make marines easy and it would seem like a punishment. Thats why, devs should draw a line somewhere, like messing with game physics & player features.
btw, marines would look very high tech soldiers with some laser rifles, lasers firing everywhere in a dark room. It would probably look very cool.
anyway, *me loves jumping marines*.
Valve likes dipping their corruption in everything. I hate Valve, they think they're invincible. We havent seen a new TFC2 picture, in what, two years? All they did to get where they are today is buy CS from gooseman. We dont hear much of Gooseman nowadays, gee, I wonder why.
Valve doesn't help mods, they just buy them out. Honestly, they'll probably end up buying NS out as well.
I never said it was impossible to kill skulks before they ever reached you, im merely making a point by saying that if you gave skulks godlike melee powers to which marines couldn't stand up to when in melee range you would be completely destroying early game balance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Playing skulk I attack from behind or above or surprise the marine or I die. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, so those marines you surprise shouldn't stand a chance if you mess up? Just because you happen to be in melee range?
Also, im not saying there are no long passages in maps, but if you look at them you will notice those kind of areas are not very numerous. As for killing skulks, yes, an experienced player can kill many skulks before he dies, UNLESS the skulks are also experienced. I cannot say how many times wallcrawling has saved my life and let me kill that pesky marine attacking me. And as a marine, i have killed around 10 skulks already (not all the same time of course) without dying. Its just a matter of placement and sometimes even luck.
I agree with most people on this topic, but bunny hopping isnt whats going on in NS. In fact, the dev team made it almost impossible to bhop in NS and im glad since i have always hated the idea. Skulks can bhop because they were designed to be able to do it. The only problem now are crouching hitboxes, which can be easily defeated if you jump and attack at the same time, therefore hitting the marine in the head or the arms.
He got rich by doing what valve did,
Bought somones elses product and then got rich off it, im supprised people havent learn yet *sigh*
And CS isnt anything special, it has no realy great Features, Just a semi interesting theme, and real guns so all the little boys can play soilders without the Brutilisation <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->, however the way it worked was:
CS Betas was supposibly the Golden Era of CS [i dont realy know just taking the words of 2 realy good mates], In that Golden era it attracted GOOD REVIEWS on all the major sites, thus getting alot of Public Suport and atracking hordes of people, No new reviews For CS has come Out Scince that Golden era thus people who look At reviews get good Impressions for it,
You may also notice that peopel either Like or hate CS, this is called the "moron factor" or "Ignorant Masses" either will do, this is where People Do the same Task over and over again with very Little Varience[Take Diablo/Dungeon Seige For Exsample as Mindless Mouse Pressing [hack and slash]] this Consept Works for all games, that is why the quality of games is Still Lower then it should be, thus you get all the idiots Playing Cs doing the same thing over and over, and because they are told over and over in game that CS is fun they acctuly Beleave it [Lieing to themselfs/ peer preasure, this would give people who work in marketing Wet dreams <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->], This is also why When somone brings Out a good game [NS, U9 Morrowwind] they are less popular then they should be, btw.
Thanks NS Dev team you have done a great Job, and from one designer to another, Keep up the good work <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Valve likes dipping their corruption in everything. I hate Valve, they think they're invincible. We havent seen a new TFC2 picture, in what, two years? All they did to get where they are today is buy CS from gooseman. We dont hear much of Gooseman nowadays, gee, I wonder why.
Valve doesn't help mods, they just buy them out. Honestly, they'll probably end up buying NS out as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know where you get this hateful view of Valve from. They've supported this community like no other developer, and to think, they're involved with Sierra. Anybody who is anybody knows how customer-unfriendly Sierra is. We haven't seen TF2 because they started it over when they decided to do a new and original engine. It's not unusual for a developer to not want to give too much away too early on. Gooseman is busy working on CS2 for that engine. I don't think you'd be giving out interviews all the time if you were.
They help out a lot, they also give Mod makers opportunity to go retail. Though most fans like to call them sellouts, I'm sure a lot of Mod makers would love that chance.
Deadman, You're just jealous that he's a billionaire and you aren't. MS may not make the best decisions all the time but Billy-G is far from stupid.
[edit]
Speaking of stupid, I spell may as make. :o
Also tactically you stand a much better chance vs a skulk when you have your back to a wall, or even better: a corner for the simple reason that you have to track less. The less you have to move your gun to track your enemy the better chance you stand against him. If you have your back to a wall you only have to track 50% of your surroundings, and in a corner you only have to track 25%. Sure bunnyhopping around makes you harder to hit, but it also makes it harder to hit the skulk, and every stray bullet you manage to land on him is going to do a lot less damage than the stray bite that takes your leg off.
Bottom line: skulks work best when they get behind you. Walls and corners are your friends.
On a different note, bunnyhopping isn't just "jumping a lot"; it's a specific way of getting around that doesn't involve hitting the forward key, and skulks can't do it unless they hold the "non-sticky" key the whole time. That's because the skulk stickiness works on the floors as well, and it will slow down any extra speed you get in the air.
Give the aliens lmgs, pistols, kinfes and a cc and may aswell throw in a arms lab for good luck.
seems the only way to stop peeps crying about unfair team (which thay are not) is to either shoot them or make team identical