Holistic Battle Wrap up and the Need for Burst Damage
Ohnojojo
Join Date: 2011-08-01 Member: 113400Members
Join Date: 2011-08-01 Member: 113400Members
Below I've labelled the arsenals and roles of each weapon
"Primary dps" meaning just a standard attack
"Burst dps" meaning instantaneous high dps or in a relatively short period of time
"Extended Burst dps" meaning instantaneous high dps or in a relatively short period of time but constant high dps is extended for a long period of time.
"DoT" meaning damage over time
Some weapons are both burst dps or primary dps, depending on how the weapon is used and its dmg output relative to other weapons for that race.
Marine arsenal and roles:
AR - Primary dps
Pistol - Primary dps/Burst dps
Axe - Primary dps
Welder - Primary dps
Mines - Burst dps
SG - Burst dps
GL - Burst dps
FT - DoT/Disabler
RG - Burst dps
MINI - Primary dps/Burst dps
DMINI - Extended Burst dps
ARC - Burst dps
For aliens, its arguable that most of the primary attacks are also considered burst damage. (except gorge spit) But due to the overall design of alien's attacks and their damage output, hit-to-kill is a more relatable measure of an alien's strength rather than dps. Because of this, I've labelled most of the alien's slot 1 attacks as "Primary dps" but it can be arguably said that these attacks are also "Burst dps". (This list doesn't include alien upgrades such as cara, regen, camo, celerity, etc.)
Alien arsenal and roles:
Skulk Bite - Primary dps
Spit - Primary dps
Bile Bomb - DoT
Lerk Bite - Primary dps + DoT
Lerk Spikes - Primary dps
Spores - DoT/nuker
Swipe - Primary dps/Nuker
Gore - Primary dps(without charge)/Burst dps (with charge) [charging into an enemy and goring immediately creases gorge damage]
Vortex - Disabler
Hydras - Primary dps
Enzyme Cloud - Burst dmg buff
Umbra - Defensive buff
Stomp - Disabler (stun)
Infestation Spike - Disabler
Here are the alien upgrades in short but listing their affects on DPS and how the different combinations of upgrades affect each individual lifeform and play style would take forever to write so I won't bother.
Alien Upgrades and their roles:
cara - defensive buff
regen - defensive/marine harrassment buff
celer - speed buff/extractor harrassment buff
adren - "ammo" buff
silen - stealth buff/marine harrassment buff
camo - stealth buff/marine harrassment buff
To me, it seems that aliens are lacking a burst attack type weapon/role.
That is to say, it takes forever (with the inevitable glancing bites) to take down a 0 Pres cost level 3 armor marine.
Aliens need something that allows them to do a lot of damage in a short period of time to an individual or small group of marines.
Marines have GLs, SGs, ARCs, Dual mini's arguably single minis, railguns, all weapons that can take down a gorge, skulks or lerk or fade down relatively quickly but aliens don't have a comparable form of weaponry.
This may be because of the asymetrical design of the aliens.
Aliens are all about stacking battle modifiers to your favor.
enzyme cloud, infestation spikes, umbra, spores, bile bomb, poison bite, stomp... these are all things that soften the marines or disable their movement or vision or reduce armor or increase friendly armor or increase attack speed, but there is no ability that aliens have that can definitively be described as a "Burst dps" type role.
I think that aliens need something along these lines.
And no, xenocide doesn't count, if anything its more of a 'nuker ability" an ability that can push back and soften an attack but won't finish the job or completely shut down the enemy attack. Not to mention, xenocide is so rarely seen.
Ideally a MAX alien team versus MAX marine team engage should go as such:
2x Onos + 2x Gorges + 2x Lerks + 2x Fades + Remaining teammates are Skulks.
Umbra Onos, Enzyme cloud Gorges, 1 gorge heals onos, 1 gorge bile bombs marines and structures, 1 lerk spores the battlefield, 1 lerk umbras the battlefield, 1-2 skulks xenocide, Infestation Spike traps marines or blocks bullets, 1 onos stomps, 1 onos gores marines and/or structures, 1 fade vortexes high priority units ie: exos, 1 fade picks off low hp infantry units, lerks also poison bite any marines entering the battlefield.
Versus the Marine strategy of...
SHOOT 'N WELD, SHOOT N' WELD, SHOOT 'N WELD, fly around, cover each other and SHOOT 'N WELD.
Anyway the point of this thread is to point out that aliens could use more burst type dps attacks or tweaking of current abilities to make late game combat more enjoyable, especially for lower lifeforms.
This may be why some people want to see the return of "focus" from NS1.
Or something similar.
It doesn't have to be focus but something is lacking and I'm sure that UWE will do something to fill the void or make the gameplay experience more enjoyable.
Not that the game is bad, its fucking amazing.
edit: added more weapons and clarified damage types.
"Primary dps" meaning just a standard attack
"Burst dps" meaning instantaneous high dps or in a relatively short period of time
"Extended Burst dps" meaning instantaneous high dps or in a relatively short period of time but constant high dps is extended for a long period of time.
"DoT" meaning damage over time
Some weapons are both burst dps or primary dps, depending on how the weapon is used and its dmg output relative to other weapons for that race.
Marine arsenal and roles:
AR - Primary dps
Pistol - Primary dps/Burst dps
Axe - Primary dps
Welder - Primary dps
Mines - Burst dps
SG - Burst dps
GL - Burst dps
FT - DoT/Disabler
RG - Burst dps
MINI - Primary dps/Burst dps
DMINI - Extended Burst dps
ARC - Burst dps
For aliens, its arguable that most of the primary attacks are also considered burst damage. (except gorge spit) But due to the overall design of alien's attacks and their damage output, hit-to-kill is a more relatable measure of an alien's strength rather than dps. Because of this, I've labelled most of the alien's slot 1 attacks as "Primary dps" but it can be arguably said that these attacks are also "Burst dps". (This list doesn't include alien upgrades such as cara, regen, camo, celerity, etc.)
Alien arsenal and roles:
Skulk Bite - Primary dps
Spit - Primary dps
Bile Bomb - DoT
Lerk Bite - Primary dps + DoT
Lerk Spikes - Primary dps
Spores - DoT/nuker
Swipe - Primary dps/Nuker
Gore - Primary dps(without charge)/Burst dps (with charge) [charging into an enemy and goring immediately creases gorge damage]
Vortex - Disabler
Hydras - Primary dps
Enzyme Cloud - Burst dmg buff
Umbra - Defensive buff
Stomp - Disabler (stun)
Infestation Spike - Disabler
Here are the alien upgrades in short but listing their affects on DPS and how the different combinations of upgrades affect each individual lifeform and play style would take forever to write so I won't bother.
Alien Upgrades and their roles:
cara - defensive buff
regen - defensive/marine harrassment buff
celer - speed buff/extractor harrassment buff
adren - "ammo" buff
silen - stealth buff/marine harrassment buff
camo - stealth buff/marine harrassment buff
To me, it seems that aliens are lacking a burst attack type weapon/role.
That is to say, it takes forever (with the inevitable glancing bites) to take down a 0 Pres cost level 3 armor marine.
Aliens need something that allows them to do a lot of damage in a short period of time to an individual or small group of marines.
Marines have GLs, SGs, ARCs, Dual mini's arguably single minis, railguns, all weapons that can take down a gorge, skulks or lerk or fade down relatively quickly but aliens don't have a comparable form of weaponry.
This may be because of the asymetrical design of the aliens.
Aliens are all about stacking battle modifiers to your favor.
enzyme cloud, infestation spikes, umbra, spores, bile bomb, poison bite, stomp... these are all things that soften the marines or disable their movement or vision or reduce armor or increase friendly armor or increase attack speed, but there is no ability that aliens have that can definitively be described as a "Burst dps" type role.
I think that aliens need something along these lines.
And no, xenocide doesn't count, if anything its more of a 'nuker ability" an ability that can push back and soften an attack but won't finish the job or completely shut down the enemy attack. Not to mention, xenocide is so rarely seen.
Ideally a MAX alien team versus MAX marine team engage should go as such:
2x Onos + 2x Gorges + 2x Lerks + 2x Fades + Remaining teammates are Skulks.
Umbra Onos, Enzyme cloud Gorges, 1 gorge heals onos, 1 gorge bile bombs marines and structures, 1 lerk spores the battlefield, 1 lerk umbras the battlefield, 1-2 skulks xenocide, Infestation Spike traps marines or blocks bullets, 1 onos stomps, 1 onos gores marines and/or structures, 1 fade vortexes high priority units ie: exos, 1 fade picks off low hp infantry units, lerks also poison bite any marines entering the battlefield.
Versus the Marine strategy of...
SHOOT 'N WELD, SHOOT N' WELD, SHOOT 'N WELD, fly around, cover each other and SHOOT 'N WELD.
Anyway the point of this thread is to point out that aliens could use more burst type dps attacks or tweaking of current abilities to make late game combat more enjoyable, especially for lower lifeforms.
This may be why some people want to see the return of "focus" from NS1.
Or something similar.
It doesn't have to be focus but something is lacking and I'm sure that UWE will do something to fill the void or make the gameplay experience more enjoyable.
Not that the game is bad, its fucking amazing.
edit: added more weapons and clarified damage types.
Comments
You forgot about welders (same as the axe really, just faster) exo punch (Primary I think) and mines.
Aliens you forgot para, hydras, charge for Onos, possibly stomp for Onos and even vortex is technically damage over time :P
BTW: poison bite? Isn’t that just dam over time?
Interesting observation about aliens not having a burst dps. Something I never noticed. I think you're right about this being part of the aliens being based around stacking everything up to get overwhelming force.
They do tremendous amounts of damage in a short period of time, they're just sustainable burst.
Aliens have burst dps, ever seen a camo skulk + drifter rip apart 7 marines in 2 seconds?