Skulks & Carapace?

Urza · December 2002

Ok, so everyone is used to the skulk/carapace combo. It is a good combo. You might be able to take down the marines' main base with it even. If not for the fact that gorges will get restowers and a second hive up before they think about getiing up defence chambers.

So when the first three chambers are getting up, it's already midgame: fades will be there soon enough <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. But what about invisible skulks. You can wait for the marines undetected as they rush by to their, or your hive. You can 'site them, and wait for them to pass, and eat them. So actually, getting sensory chambers up first is not a bad idea. A gorge might want scent of fear so he can detect attacking enemies and flee. Fades want to hide & regen...

At first, when our gorge started building SC's, I was alll like wt* are you doing we need carapaces! you noob! But after a few encounters with marines I was quite thankful <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. Playing as a marine, it got even worse, it was near impossible to get out of our main unharmed (as the comm wouldnt up change tactics or upgrade the obs, and we were up against some experienced players.

So the choice between defense and sensory has to be made: defense for atacking a hive, sensory for defendig one. It's not as easy as it seems.

T_RAT · December 2002

yea scanner being 1 now is to cheap. i know as comm i use it alot when i need 2. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>
u still need 2 hives two cloak dont u?
what does sensory do when u have 1 hive? nothing?
im still getting used to aliens.
i would say defense first.
plz correct me if im wrong

Trikk · December 2002

The aliens' upgrades works like this: for every hive you have, you can have one <i>type</i> of upgrade chamber, but you can have any amount of them. 3 upgrade chambers of one sort will make that upgrade level 3.

ph4t_rabb1t · December 2002

IMHO movement chamber is just as good as defence chamber, if not better. Think of the upgrade "silence" as a skulk or a gorge. Its a real pain in the **obscenity** for the marines, when 1 skulk stealthy jumps down from a vent and takes out the whole squad. Gorges can flee undeteced too.

And movemnt is good when the 2nd hive is finished, cuz then all aliens can teleport from Hive 1 to Hive 2 and assist in fighting to maintain the hive, if necessary.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

Blackout · December 2002

Sensory chambers are a fun first tower. Seems like I'm the only one who loves being an invisible skulk (I loved that so much).
IMHO, being invisible but lesser armored is FAR better than any defense chamber upgrade. Sure you can talk about sensor sweep, but no commanders I've ever seen clear every little area for their troops. It's demoralizing and allows all kinds of devastating ambushes.

P.S. Doesn't this belong in the Kharaa forum?

V_MAN · December 2002

I normally play on linux servers so the scanner sweep is only good for detecting structures and motion tracking doesn't work at all.

As for carapace when I'm a skulk I normally go for regeneration but have been playing with carapace a bit more lately.

matso · December 2002

This has been talked over to the death.

The problem with sensory isn't the early part of the game. As long as the marines have to move, you can use cloaking to ambush them, and it might even compensate for not having anywhere to heal but hives/gorges, and dying twice as fast to bullets.

The problem comes in the middle game, or even early game if the marines have been able to get two hives. Then you have to attack, and you find yourself dying due to lack of carapace or having to retreat because it takes 15 seconds instead of 7 to recharge the energy after using umbra or a few acid rockets.

At that time, there is nothing sensory will do to help you. In addition, what little use it might have is mostly negated by motion tracking and scanner sweeps.

Does anyone else get the feeling that sensory first was very common in the early beta-testing, which is why there are two marine technologies to counter it? It may have been too powerful in the start, then it got nerfed hard and never recovered.

confidential · December 2002

I love sensory first the few times that people on a server have actually allowed it; the only problem is that motion tracking makes cloaking absolutely useless and that is the most useful, imho, ability given by sensory for skulks.

Kitsune · December 2002

The problem hits with the second hive. Movement is absolutely vital; Fades and Lerks are pretty much crippled without adrenaline, since acid rocket and umbra take up so much energy to use. So that leaves you with movement and sensory, and by that point the marines will be shooting every corner they come by, leaving the cloak nigh-useless in any event, and those expensive, expensive Fades are now without any defensive powers or defense chambers to heal themselves with.

I consider cloaking to be something of a throwaway power, may as well get it if it's available, but not useful in the majority of gameplay. A cloaked skulk on parasite duty in a busy hallway can be a big help, but once the fighting starts, cloak does nothing.

elim · December 2002

Ok. Heres my take.

Situation in 1.03

Sensory chambers would be ok first, but once you get a second hive, the fades are in bad shape just cause of the fact, you don't have adrenaline(thus being you get DC's second). If you got Sensory for hive one, and Movement for hive two, they would be easily over run because no defenses to heal them. Being 1.03, you would need DC's first to heal your hive. For 1.03, I go like this. Defense Chambers, Movement Chambers, and then Sensory Chambers.

Situation in 1.04.

In 1.04 the hives are going to start with full health, awsome. I'm not too high about getting Sensory first, but imagine a team of skulks with Adrenaline or maybe even Celerity. The skulks would be very powerful and eluding, could be an idea. Have a fade popping up instantly with Adrenaline would be very nice, then you would be building Defense Chamberes for the second hive.

I still believe that it should go DC(Defense Chamber) / MC(Movement Chamber) / SC(Sensory Chamber). Thats just my opinion if I want the best result.

I'm hoping that Flayra and dev team makes Redemption a bit more useful. I tryed it a lot today, i'd say it worked 5/10. I mean its awsome when it works because you don't have to wait and wait to spawn. If it even worked 8/10, I'd never look back at Carapace or Regeneration.(That wasn't mean't to be a flame, just a point <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>)

Comments Suggestions? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Beetlejuice · December 2002

The point is not that sensory does not offer nice abilities, the point is that movement and def chambers are REQUIRED in 2 hive situation. 2 hive situation is where the action takes place. At this point you will be going fade to take down either big bases (to free last hive) or good equiped marines (or both of it). This is when you NEED movement (for adrenaline) and defensive (for the chambers itself). With equal teams the 2 hive situation is generally the longest part of the game, so you have to wait quite a bit to get up 3rd hive. Without having adrenaline this means you can hardly use acid rocket for anything. HA marines will laugh about it (allthough there claws are still an option) and good protected bases (3rd hive for example) are nearly impossible to take down (cause you can't just run in and use your claws, you have to rely on acid rocket which is allready a recharge nightmare even with adrenaline 3). On the other side playing the long midgame phase of holding 2 hives and trying to get 3rd hive without def chambers is impossible too against a good team. Not only do your aliens have a tougher time to heal up (have to run to hive every time to heal up very slowly) but your structures won't be worth much as well without def tower backup. So while you could argue about movement or def chamber first you HAVE TO HAVE both movement and def chambers once 2nd hive is up, or you are dead against any marine team which is not miserable.

Urza · December 2002

Skulk/redemption is great <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>. Just when you're getting near enough to start biting, you get transported back into the hive!

GreyPaws · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Urza @ Dec 30 2002, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ok, so everyone is used to the skulk/carapace combo. It is a good combo. You might be able to take down the marines' main base with it even. If not for the fact that gorges will get restowers and a second hive up before they think about getiing up defence chambers.

So when the first three chambers are getting up, it's already midgame: fades will be there soon enough <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. But what about invisible skulks. You can wait for the marines undetected as they rush by to their, or your hive. You can 'site them, and wait for them to pass, and eat them. So actually, getting sensory chambers up first is not a bad idea. A gorge might want scent of fear so he can detect attacking enemies and flee. Fades want to hide & regen...

At first, when our gorge started building SC's, I was alll like wt* are you doing we need carapaces! you noob! But after a few encounters with marines I was quite thankful <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. Playing as a marine, it got even worse, it was near impossible to get out of our main unharmed (as the comm wouldnt up change tactics or upgrade the obs, and we were up against some experienced players.

So the choice between defense and sensory has to be made: defense for atacking a hive, sensory for defendig one. It's not as easy as it seems.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
umm if yer playing with gorgs who get hive 2 before D chmbs u prolly need to find better gorgs. Rule of thumb is D chmbs after 4rt RT, unless the teams are uneven and the gorg u have is getting good resource spikes, then u can drop Ds first. I see what yer saying about the combo though. Its the fact that people still want to treat NS like CS, the learn to play it one way and cant change. Do you know how many comms still drop a TF at spawn?!?

AcKz · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Dec 31 2002, 01:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Urza @ Dec 30 2002, 08:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ok, so everyone is used to the skulk/carapace combo. It is a good combo. You might be able to take down the marines' main base with it even. If not for the fact that gorges will get restowers and a second hive up before they think about getiing up defence chambers.

So when the first three chambers are getting up, it's already midgame: fades will be there soon enough <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. But what about invisible skulks. You can wait for the marines undetected as they rush by to their, or your hive. You can 'site them, and wait for them to pass, and eat them. So actually, getting sensory chambers up first is not a bad idea. A gorge might want scent of fear so he can detect attacking enemies and flee. Fades want to hide & regen...

At first, when our gorge started building SC's, I was alll like wt* are you doing we need carapaces! you noob! But after a few encounters with marines I was quite thankful <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>. Playing as a marine, it got even worse, it was near impossible to get out of our main unharmed (as the comm wouldnt up change tactics or upgrade the obs, and we were up against some experienced players.

So the choice between defense and sensory has to be made: defense for atacking a hive, sensory for defendig one. It's not as easy as it seems.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
umm if yer playing with gorgs who get hive 2 before D chmbs u prolly need to find better gorgs. Rule of thumb is D chmbs after 4rt RT, unless the teams are uneven and the gorg u have is getting good resource spikes, then u can drop Ds first. I see what yer saying about the combo though. Its the fact that people still want to treat NS like CS, the learn to play it one way and cant change. Do you know how many comms still drop a TF at spawn?!?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
ROFL Defense chambers after 4 RT?1?!!? ROFLMAO OK Buddy.

Seraphic8X · December 2002

Forget it, I'm being a real jerk, and I'm being unfair.

wlibaers · December 2002

It has been explained before why sensory is a bad idea. Basically, it's not an offensive skill. You can use it when you sit still, but once you attack it is no longer useful. It may make it a bit easier to stop marines in the early game, but it does nothing for you if they do get a hive and you need to get them out of it.

Sensory is useful in the late game though, when you're hunting the marine who is leaving base to build a new base without attracting alien attention, scent of fear or enhanced sight are useful.

Spud88 · December 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (T_RAT @ Dec 30 2002, 10:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>yea scanner being 1 now is to cheap. i know as comm i use it alot when i need 2. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'>
u still need 2 hives two cloak dont u?
what does sensory do when u have 1 hive? nothing?
im still getting used to aliens.
i would say defense first.
plz correct me if im wrong</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

No. Skulks should immediately go off to harrass the marines, leaving the gorges plenty of room to expand and get resource towers. Defending the hive with lots of towers early on isnt essential as the skulks will be alerted on the hive sight if the hive is under attack and can rush to its defence. Best move is to try to get lots of resources to begin with.