Subtle point that marines really don't need any buffs.

rook2pawnrook2pawn Join Date: 2008-07-03 Member: 64552Members
in NS2 General Discussion
it has been complained marines have to build stuff and that takes time like power nodes, etc..

The flip side to this is that marines have a virtual lock on a base-race scenario in an arc-train-escort vs onos/gorge rush. The use of beacon completely nullifies wild-onos, and an arc train is obviously going to win out being much more efficient in total DPS, especially after the aliens are reduced to one hive (and are sans bile bomb)
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Comments

  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Uhm, not quite sure what you're getting at here. If anything, the wild onos' job is to force the beacon, thereby giving aliens a chance to destroy huge marine investment in an arc push. I think the 3-hive/2-base game isn't in too bad a place right now, if you can get there without one team being far superior to the other beforehand, that is.

    I don't think balance is actually as bad as people make out, though. There may be a balance issue, but there are bigger issues like teamstack and the occasional idiots who ruin games that, in my view, account for more of the 'balance' problems than any inherent problem between the teams in most pub servers.

    Just my opinion, of course.
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  • Omar - The WireOmar - The Wire Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165320Members
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Uhm, not quite sure what you're getting at here.

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  • rook2pawnrook2pawn Join Date: 2008-07-03 Member: 64552Members
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Uhm, not quite sure what you're getting at here. If anything, the wild onos' job is to force the beacon, thereby giving aliens a chance to destroy huge marine investment in an arc push. I think the 3-hive/2-base game isn't in too bad a place right now, if you can get there without one team being far superior to the other beforehand, that is.

    I don't think balance is actually as bad as people make out, though. There may be a balance issue, but there are bigger issues like teamstack and the occasional idiots who ruin games that, in my view, account for more of the 'balance' problems than any inherent problem between the teams in most pub servers.

    Just my opinion, of course.

    Well said, I just meant a base race scenario where both sides have incurred massive losses and that the two teams are essentially a pack of rhines + arcs vs a pack of aliens + onos, and that each side is in a strict base race. DOesn't happen all that often (maybe 1 in 20?) But as a marine commander I know that I can bank on going into a base race scenario with proper communication.

    Yeah, I totally agree with you about the balance, right now the game is in a great spot. Team stack is actually what kills servers I've noticed. But its been that way since NS1.
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  • thefrozenonethefrozenone Join Date: 2013-02-24 Member: 183302Members
    edited February 2013
    rook2pawn wrote: »
    Yeah, I totally agree with you about the balance, right now the game is in a great spot.

    I wouldn't say it's at a great spot, it's more at an okay spot. Aliens still have the advantage and tweaks can always be made, and we have no idea how the gorge tunnels are going to throw off balance.
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  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Not sure how you can possibly say that marines have the advantage in a base race. All the marine tech is typically focused in a single base that can go down when a single structure dies. When that happens all the marines lose their upgrades. Unsupervised ARCs can't kill a hive, they can all be biled down by a single Gorge.

    Also, alien winrate is 65% in competitive games so balance definitely isn't great.
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  • GlissGliss Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14800Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    nice thoughts but in reality a beacon isn't a magic button that relocates your army where you need it. usually the fact that you had to use it in the first place indicates a failure of some strategy. for your provided example of a base rush, it's actually the favorable play for aliens - force a beacon, because unsupervised arcs don't accomplish anything.
    I think a large portion of the balance issue is due to difficulty in holding onto res (also map dependent), and beacons don't help much against that either.
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  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    Just to add on to what gliss said: most of the time a beacon to save one base means that you lose stuff at several other locations. The thinking is simple, really. Everyone on the team is spread out and no one happens to be where a few aliens are hitting or can get there soon enough, so the commander uses a beacon. The aliens realize this immediately and murder everything else as they know with absolute certainty where the marines are going to be for the ten to fifteen seconds or so (or longer if they lost a gate).

    It gets even messier if there's a mixed force of exos and light marines pushing something on the map; suddenly the exos are left alone far from any friendly support and an expensive investment can get picked off quickly.
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