Enemy units should be visible to comm when nearby buildings.
JAMESEARLJONOS
Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
One of the most awkward design decisions in NS2 is how units don't show up in Commander view when next to buildings (without a scan or players). This "feature" runs completely counter to almost every RTS ever made and is extremely counter-intuitive. It extends to the point that even units in range of an observatory[ don't show up without a scan.
Simply put, this design decision doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It feels bad if you've played other RTS games, and it heavily contributes to newer commanders screwing up things like easy beacons. When compounded with things like a substandard alert system for comms, it makes tactics like ninja gorge bombing/upgrade sniping more effective than they should be.
Suggested fix: Buildings give the commander vision of nearby units in a generous radius.
Simply put, this design decision doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It feels bad if you've played other RTS games, and it heavily contributes to newer commanders screwing up things like easy beacons. When compounded with things like a substandard alert system for comms, it makes tactics like ninja gorge bombing/upgrade sniping more effective than they should be.
Suggested fix: Buildings give the commander vision of nearby units in a generous radius.
Comments
Observatories do not show the marine comm alien models in commander view. Only scanning shows them. Drifters show marines, but it's pretty ridiculous how marine isn't naturally revealed when next to a hive to begin with.
Structures have eyes in most RTS games (ie: Starcraft). The way ns2 handles commander vision is extremely awkward compared to genre norms.
You do not. Not unless a drifter or player is in range of that marine.
Most structures in other games could be said to be inhabited. It is reasonable that they provide sight. A barracks contains troops. An armory does not have a marine inside assembling shot guns.
Or does it?
In most RTS games, I would agree. But in NS2, spotting with structures would give too much awareness. Gotta remember, field players would be able to see everything on the map too. Forget a sneak attack, you got spotted by an extractor along the way.
Were you around in beta when infestation spotted marines? It was bad man, real bad.
Marine structure can send disturbance-signal back through powernode-network.
Alien structures do so through the cyst-network.
But I clearly remember seeing that many times
Oh well.
I would also like to see something more than a red dot in the minimap when the alien is in range of an obs, or at the very least have the dots differ somehow. Currently a non moving onos shows up the same as a cyst, which just isn't very intuitive at all.
If a marine tries to knife one of your harvesters you see him every time. I'm pretty sure it's the same any time someone melees a structure for either team.
you can sometimes figure things out and sometimes can't
things need to be way more clear cut
why do structures have ears but not eyes? why can you see things on structures but not things next to structures?
You shouldn't be able to enter an engagement knowing exactly what you're up against without some form of scouting.
I think the aliens are fine actually. I can't think of any moment as an alien com or player where I didn't know something was happening with the alerts from the map and drifters. Marines, however, are another story. Most of us know the lack of warning on power node attack. To me it's simple, introduce a marine element similiar to a drifter or obs, but without the heavy res cost of an obs as well as the build time, and not tied to a power node. Just a cheap but easily killed unit that stealths, but is unstealthed on infestation or even unstealthed by drifters (so alien com has something of a counter to them). That way alien controlled territory is not visible to them, but marine, or fair game territory is. To me that seems fair, but I'm open to opinions on it. This could put out an early warning system for marines, that quite honestly is desperately needed in highly contested games, but not completely cripple alien sneak attacks or give away ALL of their movement.
NS2 is not like a typical RTS. It's designed so that the PCs are the essential units. Their mobility and dynamic capabilities are more valuable than anything else. Structures are important, of course, but are deliberately deemphasized. Consequently, I think having to rely heavily on the PCs for intelligence gathering and situation monitoring is a very good game mechanic. It forces the teams to make even more tough choices about how to spend their most precious resource: man-seconds.
@savant: I think a fog-of-war mechanism for NS2 would be overkill. I've never felt like I had any lack of awareness of a) the extent of my team's visible area and b) the potential contents of enemy-controlled areas (including already scouted structures).
Compared to the other RTS I play: NS2 maps are tiny with well-delineated zones and paths; the possible or likely structures and composition of enemy forces are few in number, easy to predict before scouting, and easy to remember after scouting; unit movement through the map is much faster and much more frequent; and the situation in any one area is much more dynamic. Scouting intel becomes stale much more quickly but is also refreshed much more quickly. All these factors suggest to me that fog-of-war wouldn't add much to NS2.
aliens have drifters, so I think they are fine.
But buildings that make near aliens visible is an absolute no-go in the small and narrow maps NS2 has.
To correct some miss-conception in this thread: The black cloud under the alien-com cursor is indicating marines and enemy structures. It don't needs infestation to work. It needs one alien to visit the room at one time in the match to make it work. This means, no black cloud in rooms that where never visited by at least one alien.
This mechanic is in, so it isn't to easy for the com to find out the marine start-base.