in what patch break balance?
Sharp-Shooter
Join Date: 2011-05-11 Member: 98364Members
Join Date: 2011-05-11 Member: 98364Members
I ask this question because I have never seen a huge buff to aliens other then gorge spit, which is op but not what people make it out to be,
when the game got released it was about 55% alien wins, since release the only alien buff I can think of is gorge spit being fixed, so why is alien win so high? the lack of marine skill and team work is to blame, balance was never this bad of an issue before the games release but now that all the new players are in they rush aliens and the ones that play marine just don't try hard enough cause well, whats the point marines have a 25% chance of loosing right? well with that attitude yes.
marines need to get phase tech up as early as possible for map control, MAP control is whats going to win the game most of the time, when you have map control you secure RT's and deny aliens easy access, the first thing I do in an "favored alien map" such as veil is scout for aliens start, once I find alien start I do not attack the fully mature hive because that would just be suicide, I will just go to another tech point and camp. the khamander may drop an RT in the tech point im camping I will ignore it until my commander places the phase that im requesting. getting the phase up will not only allow us to secure a tech point, but we will aslo kill the alien rt, claim it as ours and we will be in a bigger advantage then say going to nano.
unfortunately the new players are greedy marines and want nano, unfortunately the commander is listening to more players instead of the players who have a plan and an idea that doesn't involve common thinking, so whats my point?
I think the games balance is fine, I do think gorge spit can use a little nerf in damage but nothing major, to me the problem is not the game, its the players playing it, nobody knows how to get good map control as marines, sometimes its better to skip killing overlook rt and building a ninja phase in sub, because that will give you map control, deny tech point, claim tech point, then when all said and done kill overlook.
opinions?
when the game got released it was about 55% alien wins, since release the only alien buff I can think of is gorge spit being fixed, so why is alien win so high? the lack of marine skill and team work is to blame, balance was never this bad of an issue before the games release but now that all the new players are in they rush aliens and the ones that play marine just don't try hard enough cause well, whats the point marines have a 25% chance of loosing right? well with that attitude yes.
marines need to get phase tech up as early as possible for map control, MAP control is whats going to win the game most of the time, when you have map control you secure RT's and deny aliens easy access, the first thing I do in an "favored alien map" such as veil is scout for aliens start, once I find alien start I do not attack the fully mature hive because that would just be suicide, I will just go to another tech point and camp. the khamander may drop an RT in the tech point im camping I will ignore it until my commander places the phase that im requesting. getting the phase up will not only allow us to secure a tech point, but we will aslo kill the alien rt, claim it as ours and we will be in a bigger advantage then say going to nano.
unfortunately the new players are greedy marines and want nano, unfortunately the commander is listening to more players instead of the players who have a plan and an idea that doesn't involve common thinking, so whats my point?
I think the games balance is fine, I do think gorge spit can use a little nerf in damage but nothing major, to me the problem is not the game, its the players playing it, nobody knows how to get good map control as marines, sometimes its better to skip killing overlook rt and building a ninja phase in sub, because that will give you map control, deny tech point, claim tech point, then when all said and done kill overlook.
opinions?
Comments
New players vs experienced players. New players prefer marines since shooting is more familiar.
Of course there are other issues as well, but this was the biggest shift that i saw
At the time I bought into the beta the marine GL was an attachement to the assault rifle. I remember that being really really OP. Even though the grenade physics was alot more wonky and frustrating as it is today.
Wasn't marine win rate higher around the launch of the game? The only thing I can remember is that everyone went for marines and aliens lost most times because the newbs had no clue how to play alien.
People learned to stop ground skulking :)
Marines were basically playing close to the skillcap from the start because FPS is familiar to most everybody who plays. Aliens take a bit more time to gain skill and effectiveness with just by being a different game than FPS standard.
Only marine comms have gotten better in any way that benefits marines, but a good comm isn't game winning so much as an average comm can lose you the game.
If we still had 2 base Onos drops, in combat regen bug, super crags and super fast cloaking, aliens would be sitting at a 90% + win rate.
Even in competitive games, I've seen aliens be down by <b>HUNDREDS</b> of res, be down res nodes all game, and then, even at the end, have more team + personal res supplies.
This, and just how cost-effective Lerks are, how basetrading is a VERY common problem, and how many anti-push abilities/buildings the aliens have are a real detriment. (Putting a single whip down the end of a hallway = 2 marines with GLs can't do anything).
I'd rather us be 65% alien / 35% marines than the 50-50 early onos
In general though, the marine early game is WAY too important, marines don't stand a chance whatsoever if they can't put enough pressure during the first 5 minutes, which in pubs they rarely can.
5 minute onos was removed
shift costs 5 res for 2 eggs when it use to be 1 per egg
the only buff I can remember is gorge spit
with all that said aliens are winning more then the release, I just want to make a point its probably not the game, but the players
This was a relatively recent change, but did not have a major impact on the stats IIRC. Nothing really has, this alien-favored balance trend emerged on its own shortly after launch and has remained pretty steady. Personally I think the marines are just less accessible as a team right now, pubbers are always unorganized and aliens seem better able to cope with that play style than marines.
Charles Darwin.
I think it's the correct answer. Aliens have always found a way of overcoming the nerfs and come up with new ways of winning. They are more flexible and diverse than marines. Also, they are more fun to play.
1) Large percentage of players had mics, strong teamwork seems to be more required for marines.
2) Players whom were still active had accepted the mandate to rush against aliens early in the game, despite marines 'feeling' defensive. Those who didn't accept this tended to rage quit and stop playing in the beta.
3) Camo was the lol choice. You got camo when you saw teams were stacked.
After release:
1) Less mics. Harms marines more than aliens.
2) Initial alien losses at launch, quickly replaced by alien wins as they learn. Marines seem to have not learned much in pubs. They still play too defensively.
3) Camo got buffed to silly, which made new players even more defensive. Its become ingrained.
Marines were basically playing close to the skillcap from the start because FPS is familiar to most everybody who plays. Aliens take a bit more time to gain skill and effectiveness with just by being a different game than FPS standard.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually think marines are harder to master and that the tilted winrate can thus be explained. Basically what TimMc said: marines rely much more on a working team, comm-trooper interaction is much more vital.
Sure, the basic mechanics are easier to learn as a marine, but when it comes to strategy and tactics, I think the marines are more sophisticated and just demand more foresight than the aliens do.
When playing alien a single player can have much more impact on the match imo. A single gorge biling the main power node can bring a whole Exo push to a stop by forcing a beacon. A single onos can annihilate a forward base, killing several marines and the pg in a matter of seconds. There is no equivalent in this for a single marine. If one or two marines sneak into the alien base, two skulks or a fade are usually enough to bring them down and aliens can keep pushing at the same time.
And i think the cause for that is how resource intensive marine tech is compared to alien tech. Aliens just go for carpace,celerity & adrenaline for 30 res each and only need a select few upgrades for their lifeforms basically leap,bile bomb,spores,blink which are all cheap while marines have to spend tons of res on buildings phase gates arcs and other stuff to stay in the game and in pubs marines simply have no chance to earn that many res when even pro marine teams in competitive games with 6+ res nodes struggle to stay in the game.
Another problem is, that the aliens can cluster the map with their structures, clogs and hydras. Alien fortifications are much harder to clear and take more time and resources (ammo) than marine fortifications. This essentially leads to forcing marines to hit and run hives in the lategame, somthing they are not designed for and not very good at.
Some people like to compare ns2 to MOBA games like dota. Essentially, you have the aliens as a team of hardcarries. It is just, that they only have to survive long enough to go onos and they are made. Killing skulks doesnt really do the marines any good, they have to end the game as fast as possible. This is something pubbers dont like, they want to enjoy their game and have fun killing stuff.
I beg to differ.
Ninja Phase Gate.
All it requires is one marine smart enough to not shoot every cyst they see...
Never mind, you're right.
The 60% off sale happened. Then came the newbies. So many newbies. They flooded onto the familiar Marine team, green names everywhere! They were quickly devoured by those of us who had been there a while.
60% off, 60% alien win rate... coincidence?! I think NOT!
On a serious note, it is an issue of pub marines needing more confidence and shooting ability. I am very thankful every time I see one guy rambo'ing RTs while the rest of my team is attacking on the occasions I play marine.
Now if only I could get them to start welding each other.... It makes me feel like an old man shouting at kids on the sidewalk as somebody who played NS1.
"Ya' damn kids! Buy some welders and cover each other! Stop running back to the armory! Now look what you've done! Dagnabbit!"
I think this is because pub marines run back to the warm embrace of the armory so often. There's no trust in the comm to medpack them and especially in their teammates to weld them, so they don't place themselves in positions where they would require a weld.
I personally enjoy playing both sides, but playing as the Aliens was definitely a big appeal when looking to purchase NS2. Maybe thats why we're seeing the big spread.