Lets Count - Basic Balance of the Game

Exoskelett · January 2013

Hey there since im playing NS2 im always wondering about marines losing nearly every game and i thought about the basic balance of the game - while not thinking about the player skills at all and im gonna set up an list here, wich can be extended by every1 who feels like Marines need some changes.

But please dont list up any skillbased stuff so we can keep clean and think about the whole basic game balance at its ground of.

Onos vs Exosuits 

Onos: 75 Playerres // 40 Cres

High Movementspeed (sprint)
able to crouch / moving into smaller areas
High Health/Armor -Stealth/Stomp
Low dmg against Buildings - High dmg Against players
highly effective against 3 and more Players
does not require Aim

Exosuits: 75 Playerres // 15+40+30 (+20 for dual) Cres

Slow Movementspeed (????????????)
not able to crouch
Low Armor
higher dmg as Onos against Buildings/Players
Upgrades???
ineffective alone (worst case become killed by 2 skulks :D -)
Requires Aim
starts spraying on longer distance

(To become exosuits effective they might need a total of C and PRes of ~105 -- macs/wielders)

The Upgrades/Game as it is: Worst case

Alien Player upgrades (like Stealth?) do not cost any Playerres (able to save all Res till Onos)

Stealth vs Marines (Commander needs to waste Res for detecting aliens, players are not able to detect anything by their own without wasting important ammo/time)

Stomp for Onos - what for Exos?

Alien vs Marine Structures (Aliens do not require players to build) Marines need to build + have weak powernotes

Movementspeed by Aliens is absolutly higher untill jetpack (and thats the reason they do not need any Phasegate stuff)

Mines waste of Playerres - expensive and ineffective/can be killed ^120 dmg(1 = 5 Res / do not kill a skulk and even 3 do not kill an carapaced skulk if he got ping over 80 - cant kill if set into corners cause they expload much too late )

Armor Upgrade 1 = waste if skulks deal 3x75 dmg ( damage list :: <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=121084402#-1" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...id=121084402#-1</a> )

Marines need to buy stuff to become stronger / Aliens mostly just save res to become Onos while marines are not able to buy exos like they do (Playerres vs Commanderres needs to be balanced?)

Phasegates can be blocked by Skulks (teleport into and get instantly killed) after PG's are down, how to reach the 2nd base or something else while marines lack movementspeed/JP 10 P'Res --- Skulk Celerity/Leap 0 P'Res

Larger Maps = Causing marines to start build much slower and are forced to face more skulks ?

Wips throw grenades back / Make GL's completly useless (15 Res vs 25 // CRes vs PRes) Turrets can what?

Low FPS = forcing marines to become worse aiming / does not affect any alienplayer while they do not have to aim 100%

Marine weaponupgrades : 20/15/25/35 = 95 Cres / Aliendamageupgrades.... to be continued

Alien Vision (works everywhere) vs Marine flashlight (lowrange and marines geting hurt by dark rooms anyway if powernote got killed)

Marines vs Aliens @ Armorys / Healingstations - Marines are forced to watch the armory while aliens become healed on range

and so on - you might wanna finish the list and found something wrong? let me know - the list will become really long.

Dunno but i think the game really needs player feedback about the game basic balance over all - even the fact that skulks can hit while watching into 180Â° wrong direction should finaly arrived everybody

i have currently 2 ideas you should think about:

Wielder upgrade (increasing cost to 20)/ Adding them permanently after teched and replaces the buildingtool.
Powernotes still should be finished by marines but marinestructures should build up by itself (reason for this: alienrushes / some marines busy on building up some RT far away from mainbase?)

Keldorn · January 2013

I don't think you can compare a unit from one race directly with a unit from a different and asymmetrical race. That said, I also think the roles of both are just too different so there is even less reason comparing them, aside of them being late tech and both costing 75 pres.

ScardyBob · January 2013

I think you mean TRes (standing for team resources) rather than Cres.

GORGEous · January 2013

How are we supposed to take this post seriously if you list 50 marine disadvantages (most of which are trash) and zero marine advantages (hello, range? lower TTK? LMG vs Skulk advantage?, nanoshields, medpacks, arcs?). You've also managed to include zero alien disadvantages.

This post is really bad. Half the things you've listed are either wrong, apples to oranges, or just plain dumb comparisons.

KwisatzHaderach · January 2013

I'm sorry, i have to agree here: this thread is dumb!

I can see you put a lot of effort into this post and yes, aliens win more than marines, but honestly, you sound VERY one-sided. You seem to have absolutely no idea about alien trade offs such as when going camo first, you have to get up three hives fast or your late game lifeforms will die because of the lack of either shift or crag upgrades. And there are many more drawbacks like spawn times and evolving times that a good marine team can use to its atvantage.

My suggestion is, go play some alien for a change - your post made it painfully obvious you have not done this enough in the past - to get some basic feeling for the asymetrie that makes this game so special.

Also keep in mind something a dev said which went along the lines of the aliens being harder to learn at first, having a steep learning curve that flattens out pretty quickly, while marines have a smoother learning curve that just keeps on climbing steadily. I think this is true. Marines are much harder to get organized, because they have to patrol, build, push and maintain while aliens just have to rush and harass.

Exoskelett · January 2013

Well was just a try guys - i dont know but for me the balance just feels wrong i managed many times to kill about 3-5 marines alone as a skulk its just all about the movement not about aiming and thats a bit annoying for me while you just hit marines "on the fly" without even aiming like marines have to... as soon as celerity + leap are ready you can move that way fast its nearly just like teleporting around for 0 res :O)

dunno but i guess 200 hours playtime are atm. enough to think about the balance also the feeling joined me after ~20 hours but in matter of fact - maybe the game seems to be balanced (or not?) in competitive play but public games are mostly like all the same got too much rookies in alienteam? you have the chance to win got too many rookies in marineteam? Ragequit, no commander, no nothing lol

Lets Count - Basic Balance of the Game

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