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DC_Darkling
Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
<div class="IPBDescription">the whyyy</div>Most marine matches I have seen thus far have a main base. It holds there armslab, upgraded armory, proto, robotics lab, PG and IPs.
Most other CCs in these matches may hold a armory, PG and a obs.. and it ends there.
Aliens on the other hand can spawn from every hive, and many khammanders spread there upgrades around.
<b>So why don't most marines?</b>
Best matches I had (in pugs mind you) were where the commander placed at least 1 ip around every CC they have. There was atleast one spare armslab, perhaps even a spare proto or advanced armory depending on res income. Benefits allround.
* marines spawn in more then 1 CC, so even if they die a lot you have marines actively checking multiple bases by simply being there.
* marines who spawn in a base which does not have a proto yet, for example, will actively search for there proto if they see by there teams gear its there. (more base checks)
* backup buildings reduce the total loss when your 'main' gets powernode rushed, as there no longer is a 'main'. This enables a quick recovery, and will not take a single jetpack out the field, if you went from 3 CC to 2.
* its less of a problem to build a lone robotics in a base, instead of your main.. due to there being no main. This will do little versus a truu baserush, but it can rebuild the odd rt which a skulk killed before moving on.
Sure it takes some resources to slowly make backups, but so far it has payed of more then it did not, given your marines last long enought to hold 2 points.
Most other CCs in these matches may hold a armory, PG and a obs.. and it ends there.
Aliens on the other hand can spawn from every hive, and many khammanders spread there upgrades around.
<b>So why don't most marines?</b>
Best matches I had (in pugs mind you) were where the commander placed at least 1 ip around every CC they have. There was atleast one spare armslab, perhaps even a spare proto or advanced armory depending on res income. Benefits allround.
* marines spawn in more then 1 CC, so even if they die a lot you have marines actively checking multiple bases by simply being there.
* marines who spawn in a base which does not have a proto yet, for example, will actively search for there proto if they see by there teams gear its there. (more base checks)
* backup buildings reduce the total loss when your 'main' gets powernode rushed, as there no longer is a 'main'. This enables a quick recovery, and will not take a single jetpack out the field, if you went from 3 CC to 2.
* its less of a problem to build a lone robotics in a base, instead of your main.. due to there being no main. This will do little versus a truu baserush, but it can rebuild the odd rt which a skulk killed before moving on.
Sure it takes some resources to slowly make backups, but so far it has payed of more then it did not, given your marines last long enought to hold 2 points.
Comments
For example.
Let's say we're on docking and have a base with tech spread out over locker, cafe, terminal.
Proto is at cafe.
Armory is at locker.
Phasegates/IPs at each.
I die. I respawn at terminal's IP. There is a battle raging at the phase gate in stability and I want to get back asap, but I need my gear to fight those fades. I phase to locker room, look around for the armory and buy my shotgun. Then I have to run back to the phasegate, find the proto lab, buy my jetpack. Then I phase into combat. I've had to look around three different bases for my gear just to get back into the fight. It's even worse if you spawn in cafe in this situation because you're phased somewhere else (stability) before terminal before locker to buy your weapons.
It will always be slower to get back onto the field if you have to phase around multiple bases to gear up. As your team's skill improves, this will be a clearly less efficient strategy than simply having your proto/armory in your base -- right next to your IPs. Same thing goes with IPs.
The other downside of this is the flipside of the positive -- that you've hedged your bets by spreading tech. This ensures that you lose more resources when you lose an area and forces you to commit more manpower to holding that larger investment.
IMO, it is better to build your 2-3 IPs in one area, along with your tech, and make sure you hold that one spot. I find it is easier to hold one very important spot than it is to hold two or three important spots. It also leaves you much less vulnerable, assuming you plan appropriately to hold that one spot. You always have emergency beacon so there is really no excuse to lose your main base.
I think building 1 IP at secondary or tertiary command stations is both a waste of res and weaker than having a pair in one base. One IP is very easy to camp, which can leave you with two vulnerable bases instead of just one. Also, the 30 tres for a CC + IP is a huge investment when you're trying to get your economy and research going.
......g to get your economy and research going.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You misunderstood. Noone was suggesting spreading tech for marines. The point is not to have a proto in one base and a Armory in another. So backups. The point is to have them both in 2 bases somewhere in midgame to endgame. (not early game)
Preferably for midgame for both bases are Ips, PGs, obs, armory and armslab.
This will reduce it to 1 phase to the other base if you need JP or a higher weapon then shotty. If you just want shotty, grab it from the second armory and lets go.
Having 1 IP camped is far less of a problem if the other ip is in base 2. getting 2 bases camped means somewhere screwed up bigtime somewhere.
Just be sure your phasegate is up and running.
So to recap:
* ip camping is easier if they are in the same base.
* this is not for early game
* going back in battle is not a problem if you want minimal tech (shotgun). JP and higher weapons takes a few phases more, for the added benefit of more onground patrols. (pick a preference depending on aliens id say)
* tech is not spread, but duplicate.
* beacon can be 2 slow if a few onos rampage your power node, and leaves the few exos you might have alone.
* if a base is truly lost, recycle and be sure to grab a hive.
This.
There is almost always something more worthwhile to spend your TRes on then duplicate structures.
I guess if you have such a huge bank that you can do everything at once, then it's fine to build backups. I can't really see that being the case in a close game, though.
Where base rushes succeed because marines react slow.
Where they patrol less.
Where medding anyone who has no pres investment is usually a waste. (situational I know).
In a perfect game you need no backup structures.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7zaZ8Lbkw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7zaZ8Lbkw</a>
"Why do you ask for medpack you just got out of your infantry portal?"
:D :D :D
<b>So why don't most marines?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because of a thing called "beacon" and it being easier to watch and protect one place very closely, rather than two or three places.
one trillion res nodes, could buy alot of ######!
Buy some shotguns buy some mines?
In the hands of killers skulks?
Woooaahnos woahnos waooaaahoaanos?!
People are still learning the game. Refinement takes time. :)
Arms labs especially it helps to build a second one of, because aliens target them very often. Better to build a spare when you have the money than have to replace it when you don't. IPs also it's helpful, as you say, to have marines spawning in 2 bases, helps them gear up if the other is under attack, and generally spreads marine awareness over more of the map.
This.
I don't get the second arms lab unless I'm going dual upgrades (rare) or until I've already got JP's researched. I prioritize a second arms over exos most of the time, but it also depends on how much pressure we're facing.
Second arms lab is a nice to have, but not mandatory IMO.
The problem with redundant infrastructure is that marines are often behind on resources and racing to JP's... any detours on the way to JP's has to justify its cost. Rebuilding an arms isn't any more expensive than having a spare, and the downtime is only a few seconds if one gets sniped.
This was in the beta but was removed for being too powerful. What you now see as the sentry battery used to power any marine structure in case of a power-outage.
Not spreading out your marine technology to multiple bases have in my experience always led to defeat. So what you're saying isn't true, unless the marines lose, which isn't something to discuss about.
<!--quoteo(post=2064292:date=Jan 21 2013, 06:51 PM:name=Vitdom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vitdom @ Jan 21 2013, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was in the beta but was removed for being too powerful. What you now see as the sentry battery used to power any marine structure in case of a power-outage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not for being "too powerful" but because they "didn't fit in". He even said that they would look into alternatives, which has yet to happen to compensate Marines for losing such an great tactical asset. Even more so with Gorge Tunnels being on the horizon..
Problem with the power packs had been that way too many Commanders only abused them for heavy turtling, instead of using them in smart ways, like powering Ninja PG/OBs or structures that bugged out and didn't get any power in rooms that didn't have clear power lines (They've been great for compensating such buggy behavior).